Poll of the Day > If someone REFUSES to tell you their vaccination status, Do you ASSUME its a NO

(+) Yeah! (+)

People say you shouldnt assume anymore to not offend them..but if someone refuses to tell you their vaccination status, do you assume it is a No?.

https://i.imgur.com/eL7gsyj.jpg
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it's obviously a no, lmao

and every single person knows it

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No, because people don't like being told to do anything. Unless they're vaccine enthusiasts, they're likely to get annoyed by some random person questioning them.


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A guy i work with claims he isnt anti-vax, yet hasnt had it 'because its a hassle to get it'.

Zeus posted...

No, because people don't like being told to do anything. Unless they're vaccine enthusiasts, they're likely to get annoyed by some random person questioning them.

@Zeus Ah the voice of the unintelligent strikes again.

I thought you couldnt post the same topic on two different boards

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Now that I think about it yeah, thats my initial reaction. Ive never met anyone in real life who was vaccinated and wanted to keep it quiet.

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There really isn't any good reason to refuse to say it unless you haven't done it, so yes, I would assume that.

Philip027 posted...

There really isn't any good reason to refuse to say it unless you haven't done it, so yes, I would assume that.

I had mine, but if some stranger asked me then its none of their business.

What right do they have to know personal details.

It's different it it came up in a normal conversation though but still doesn't mean automatically tell them.

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I would assume that they aren't vaccinated, yes. Doesn't really matter because I don't give a shit enough to ever ask anyone though. I am and that's good enough for me.

I had mine, but if some stranger asked me then its none of their business.

Again, there's no real reason to say "none of your business" rather than just "yes" (it's drastically more syllables, not to mention needlessly confrontational), so I would still just assume a no here.

Philip027 posted...

Again, there's no real reason to say "none of your business" rather than just "yes" (it's drastically more syllables, not to mention needlessly confrontational), so I would still just assume a no here.

It's more a lines drawn thing, and without knowing the way its said lacking in context.

It can be asked in a way to bully a person, and/or by a total stranger.

I asked a friend of mine if he had his yet, and for a while he didn't not as he was anti vax but he had various health issues and was worried, after a few months he got it as he decided the risk to him was low.

People have boundaries, and its not peoples right to ask.

I for example have seen the ones who had the vaccine go maskless or ignore social distancing as they say it no longer matters, so just because someone hasn't had the vaccine doesn't mean they haven't taken other measures.

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I assume they are not vaccinated as this only gets brought up when others are talking about being vaccinated in my experience. Although with that said I don't go around asking everyone I see what their stance is on a vaccine and I respect their choices so it doesn't come into conversation much at all.

Philip027 posted...

There really isn't any good reason to refuse to say it unless you haven't done it, so yes, I would assume that.

As already said in this topic I'd not give a answer to a complete stranger as it certainly isn't their business. I actually would find it really obnoxious if some random came up to me and started asking about my medical history, sexual orientation, beliefs and other personal information and my stance on vaccines is no different. The "good reason" is privacy for me. I see no reason to ask a random stranger about their personal stuff unless you're just looking for a argument or have some weird need to be validated on your own choices.

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I refuse to answer such questions because I'm sick of hearing about covid 24/7 and won't talk about it in any capacity

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Generally yes. There's a small subset of people who are not vaccinated for reasons other than being afraid of it, so it doesn't necessarily mean they're anti-vaxxers, and refusing to answer the question may be a matter of not wanting to discuss those reasons (though given how well that refusal predicts their status, that's a pretty futile effort) but the "I am, but I'm not going to tell you because it's none of your business" position is pretty rare. Most people don't actually care about being defiant purely for the principle of it.

More than what I assume in terms of what I end up thinking, though, that answer causes me to treat them as though they're unvaccinated. Namely, it means I will expect them to wear a mask while in my home, car, or other situation in which their vaccination status might put me at risk. Ultimately, what I think doesn't really matter, but the best course of action is for me to act as though they're unvaxxed until they claim otherwise. Realistically, that's the only situation in which I would be asking somebody their status, so that's the only thought I need to put into the matter.

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^ Generally agreed there.

I'll grant that how the question is asked makes some difference. If I walk up to some random person on the street I don't see why they should give me the time of day...or vaccination status. If I'm asking because I want to protect a larger group of people (office/party/whatever setting) then yes, I would expect an answer. If I'm asking as a friend I would also generally expect an answer (with the knowledge that I'm their friend and wouldn't let politics/etc break anything)...although I probably wouldn't ask in the first place unless I had a reason.

But to answer the question as asked, if someone doesn't tell me then it's logical to assume that they aren't and to treat them as such if I need to know. I'll be right 98% of the time.

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No, because it's none of their flipping business if someone has had the vaccine or not.

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In the overwhelming majority of instances then its yes.

Socially, people ask and have a moral right And obligation as host to know if they intend to invite you to something or interact with you in a social situation. Guests likewise have an interest in knowing if there will be vaccinated only or not people so they can make. Their own informed decisions what they want to be involved with and their own risk factor based on the activity.

if someone refuses to disclose then the answer of the host can be to either not invite them or they have to inform other guests that not everyone might be vaccinated.

this will be this way for the near future. Eventually as cases drop and stay low and more people get vaccinated people will feel more comfortable.

its responsible to have to presume a refusal to answer is a no, in that type of future gathering situation or even one on one.

if some dinguses are just talking online (like a gamefaqs topic) who will never meet up then that would be different. There is no reason to ask other than shooting the shit or starting some shit.
there are other things w that too like anonymous polls on a category meant for dumb ass polls....

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wpot posted...

I'll grant that how the question is asked makes some difference. If I walk up to some random person on the street I don't see why they should give me the time of day...or vaccination status. If I'm asking because I want to protect a larger group of people (office/party/whatever setting) then yes, I would expect an answer. If I'm asking as a friend I would also generally expect an answer (with the knowledge that I'm their friend and wouldn't let politics/etc break anything)...although I probably wouldn't ask in the first place unless I had a reason.

This is also true. Asking random people for no reason is just being obnoxious, so being blown off doesn't indicate anything conclusive so much as it just indicates that you're bothering people.

wpot posted...

But to answer the question as asked, if someone doesn't tell me then it's logical to assume that they aren't and to treat them as such if I need to know. I'll be right 98% of the time.

Exactly. Whether the assumption is correct or not, you can only act based on the information you have, and if you don't have the information that somebody is vaccinated, treating them as though they are not is the only reasonable course of action (presuming you've made some effort to get that information, like asking them). This is how businesses with vaccine requirements work as well: The only way to get in is to present proof of vaccination. If you refuse, then you're excluded regardless of whether or not you are vaccinated.

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No. I never assume.

Also I'd never ask. There's no reason to ask.

If you are vaccinated, why are you concerned with somebody else's status?

If you aren't vaccinated, why are you concerned with somebody else's status?

BEERandWEED posted...

If you are vaccinated, why are you concerned with somebody else's status?

If you aren't vaccinated, why are you concerned with somebody else's status?

You've had these questions answered enough times by now that it's clear you're being deliberately disingenuous.

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Basically.

Those who are vaccinated are concerned with the safety and well being of themselves and others. Everyone I've encountered at work (when checking their vaccination status) are happy to tell you they're vaccinated.

Those who don't want to show their status or are hesitant will almost always likely not be vaccinated. They don't give a **** about others and it shows.

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GRTooCool posted...

They don't give a **** about others and it shows.

That's the net effect in this instance, yes, but what's REALLY happening is weird social pressure. Many anti-vaxxers are conservatives who find happiness in being part of a group who joyfully poke liberals in the eye. They believe in (some) science in other contexts and they care about (certain) people in other contexts, but they don't want to lose solidarity with their social group by giving in to the "liberal vaccine people" and getting the shot.

They don't want to say whether they're vaccinated, I believe, in part because they don't want to get browbeat (fair enough) but ALSO because they can't really articulate why they aren't other than "my peeps don't do that" and they're embarrassed at some deep (subconscious?) level. That is, I believe, why you've never heard two people give the same explanation for why they aren't vaccinated other than a vague "what I do with my body is my business" refusal to answer. Their only reason is social and they can't say that.

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GRTooCool posted...

They don't give a **** about others and it shows.

All the NYC firefighters are still willing to risk their lives running into burning buildings to save others. Your logic is totally flawed.

I for example have seen the ones who had the vaccine go maskless or ignore social distancing as they say it no longer matters, so just because someone hasn't had the vaccine doesn't mean they haven't taken other measures.

In my experience, people who haven't had it are far less likely to be taking those other measures.

Basically.

Those who are vaccinated are concerned with the safety and well being of themselves and others. Everyone I've encountered at work (when checking their vaccination status) are happy to tell you they're vaccinated.

Those who don't want to show their status or are hesitant will almost always likely not be vaccinated. They don't give a **** about others and it shows.

Yep, bingo.

I find it funny how many people in here are saying that they would assume no and that it's rude to randomly ask people about their vaccination status.

Considering the question is specifically worded as you are inquiring about their status and they refuse to tell you, if randomly asking people about their vaccination status is rude, why are you implying that you're going around randomly asking people about their vaccination status in the first place?

GRTooCool posted...

Basically.

Those who are vaccinated are concerned with the safety and well being of themselves and others. Everyone I've encountered at work (when checking their vaccination status) are happy to tell you they're vaccinated.

Those who don't want to show their status or are hesitant will almost always likely not be vaccinated. They don't give a **** about others and it shows.

that is very true with the limited exception of those for a legitimate medical reason Who have been told to wait due to some upcoming procedure or medication they are on etc. and even fewer still those who legitimately cannot get vaccinated solely cause of a legitimate medical concern of their physician.

this small vulnerable group actually makes the actions of those anti vax whack jobs even more selfish.

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sveksii posted...

I find it funny how many people in here are saying that they would assume no and that it's rude to randomly ask people about their vaccination status.

Considering the question is specifically worded as you are inquiring about their status and they refuse to tell you, if randomly asking people about their vaccination status is rude, why are you implying that you're going around randomly asking people about their vaccination status in the first place?

sveksii posted...

I find it funny how many people in here are saying that they would assume no and that it's rude to randomly ask people about their vaccination status.

Considering the question is specifically worded as you are inquiring about their status and they refuse to tell you, if randomly asking people about their vaccination status is rude, why are you implying that you're going around randomly asking people about their vaccination status in the first place?

That answer mostly boils down to "there isn't much reason to ask, but if I do and I get that answer, I'm assuming it means 'no.'" It's potentially relevant if, like I said, you're inviting somebody into your home or giving them a ride somewhere, since then you'll be making an actual decision based on their answer, but otherwise it's a pretty contrived scenario.

The exception, of course, is if you work somewhere with a vaccine requirement and therefore ask every customer that comes in for proof of their status. Asking people is quite normal in that case.

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I wouldn't ask because I don't care.

Does anyone not running a business actually go around asking people if they are vaccinated?

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adjl posted...

you're inviting somebody into your home or giving them a ride somewhere,

If you're a vaccinated person that's asking your friends this question, you're are truly entrenched in this insane covid fear stifling the world

BEERandWEED posted...

If you're a vaccinated person that's asking your friends this question, you're are truly entrenched in this insane covid fear stifling the world

I don't really have to ask my friends. All of my friends are sensible people that openly celebrated vaccine appointments opening up and got them as soon as possible. I know their vaccination status without needing to ask. It only ever comes up if it's a more casual acquaintance that I've had fairly limited recent interaction with prior to that point, and even then, it's always been a matter of them first offering to keep their mask on if it would make me more comfortable, at which point I confirm their vaccination status (and, let's be real, anyone offering to wear a mask like that is going to be) and tell them I'm fine without.

This entire exchange takes less than ten seconds and mostly just consists of being polite to each other. Not exactly a steep price to pay for sensible risk management. Conveniently, the people I interact with on a regular basis tend not to be such whiny babies that they throw a tantrum over the idea of being reasonably cautious during a major public health crisis, which helps streamline things.

Of course, you've had all of this explained to you as well, so once again, it's clear you're just being deliberately disingenuous.

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Adjl: blah blah blah I'm scared
Me: don't be scared
Adjl: but people could be dying in the streets
Me: they aren't
Adjl: blah blah blah public health crisis
Me: we don't do shit about homelessness, food scarcity, war, joblessness, hatred and violence
Adjl: ...

ForteEXE3850 posted...

I wouldn't ask because I don't care.

Does anyone not running a business actually go around asking people if they are vaccinated?

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BEERandWEED posted...

Adjl: blah blah blah I'm scared
Me: don't be scared
Adjl: but people could be dying in the streets
Me: they aren't
Adjl: blah blah blah public health crisis
Me: we don't do shit about homelessness, food scarcity, war, joblessness, hatred and violence
Adjl: ...

Oof

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I'd never ask. Also, I've never been asked.

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BEERandWEED posted...

Adjl: but people could be dying in the streets

Is it the black plague? No. Is it truly risky to healthy adults? Not highly. Is it overblown by some? Certainly.

But you know what: it's been roughly equal to cancer and heart disease as a leading killer over the past year. Hospitals struggle with capacity at times. That's not arguable. It's dangerous to older and at risk people. I could respect those people and take a couple simple actions to try and protect them. Or I could laugh about it and make fun of people who try too hard. Choices, choices.

rexcrk posted...

Me: we don't do shit about homelessness, food scarcity, war, joblessness, hatred and violence

You're right: let's not do shit about the one thing we can actually make small personal difference about either.

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...I wouldnt ask because Im not a dick, I dont care, and its none of my business.

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BEERandWEED posted...

Adjl: blah blah blah I'm scared
Me: don't be scared

Do you stop at red lights because you're scared? Or do you stop at red lights because you have a healthy respect for the danger associated with failing to do so and therefore take suitable precautions?

BEERandWEED posted...

Adjl: but people could be dying in the streets
Me: they aren't

Comparing its death toll to 2019 numbers for general mortality (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm), Covid (which has killed 755k Americans in 1.69 years, or ~446k per year) sits at a very comfortable 3rd place. People aren't dying in the streets, but they are dying in hospitals, in sufficient numbers to be very easily be considered significant. Suggesting that they aren't is just being wilfully blind.

BEERandWEED posted...

Adjl: blah blah blah public health crisis
Me: we don't do s*** about homelessness, food scarcity, war, joblessness, hatred and violence
Adjl: ...

If I could reduce the risk of war by getting a war vaccine and making sure that anyone that wasn't vaccinated against war wore appropriate PPE to prevent war infections while around me in circumstances that created a higher risk of transmitting war, I absolutely would. Sadly, I can't, so I'm limited to posting impotent anti-war platitudes on the Internet and using my vote as best as I can to influence what governments decide to do. Those are also significant issues, but I can't do much more to solve them than I'm already doing, as much as you seem to think your utterly absurd example of whataboutism is some kind of brilliant "gotcha" that exposes me as a hypocrite.

Also, you have made exactly that comment before, and my response was not in any way "...". Again, you're clearly being deliberately disingenuous, and the fact that you can do nothing more than that in this discussion should really be prompting you to reevaluate your position. That's not the behaviour of somebody that actually has a robust, defensible position, nor is leaning on blatant ad hominem and strawmen.

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i would take an anti-war vaccine

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Arguably, one could argue that chemical castration could count as an anti-war vaccine, given the extent to which it can reduce aggressive tendencies, but that's a bit of an extreme approach.

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adjl posted...

Do you stop at red lights because you're scared? Or do you stop at red lights because you have a healthy respect for the danger associated with failing to do so and therefore take suitable precautions?

Since your first response is a terribly dumb analogy, I will just ignore the rest of your post that promotes the governments fearmongering and a totalitarian level of control over personal freedoms.

BEERandWEED posted...

Since your first response is a terribly dumb analogy, I will just ignore the rest of your post that promotes the governments fearmongering and a totalitarian level of control over personal freedoms.

Translation: "I cannot hope to compete with your unfathomable genius. Forgive me for ever straying from your path, O Great One, and know that I shall devote my life to the pursuit of never again being such a super dumb-dumb."

Thank you for acknowledging your inferiority. You are forgiven.

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jkdarlow posted...

A guy i work with claims he isnt anti-vax, yet hasnt had it 'because its a hassle to get it'.

It kinda is. You want somebody to be with you just in case shit goes wrong. They really leave you to the wolves. Honestly, the fucking store pharmacist didn't even check on me iirc, which is what they're literally supposed to do.

Philip027 posted...

There really isn't any good reason to refuse to say it unless you haven't done it, so yes, I would assume that.

And there's no good reason to tell somebody anything other than to fuck off when they ask you something about your medical history.

Philip027 posted...

Again, there's no real reason to say "none of your business" rather than just "yes" (it's drastically more syllables, not to mention needlessly confrontational), so I would still just assume a no here.

There is a real reason -- and more of a reason than a "yes" -- because it is none of their fucking business. And it's unsurprising that the kind of people obnoxious enough and with so little social awareness to ask would turn around and assume refusal means you haven't.

wwinterj25 posted...

As already said in this topic I'd not give a answer to a complete stranger as it certainly isn't their business. I actually would find it really obnoxious if some random came up to me and started asking about my medical history, sexual orientation, beliefs and other personal information and my stance on vaccines is no different. The "good reason" is privacy for me. I see no reason to ask a random stranger about their personal stuff unless you're just looking for a argument or have some weird need to be validated on your own choices.

This so hard. If certain people had more social interaction, they'd realize why most people would react with annoyance over being asked.

And frankly, if somebody is going to try to cover for it, they're just going to say they've had it.

wpot posted...

I'll grant that how the question is asked makes some difference. If I walk up to some random person on the street I don't see why they should give me the time of day...or vaccination status. If I'm asking because I want to protect a larger group of people (office/party/whatever setting) then yes, I would expect an answer. If I'm asking as a friend I would also generally expect an answer (with the knowledge that I'm their friend and wouldn't let politics/etc break anything)...although I probably wouldn't ask in the first place unless I had a reason.

If you walked up to a group of people and asked something that stupid, they'd be right in making kinds of assumptions about you -- and none of them would be flattering.

Who are you to ask them anything? You're not doing anything to protect anybody.


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Zeus posted...

If you walked up to a group of people and asked something that stupid, they'd be right in making kinds of assumptions about you -- and none of them would be flattering.

I don't think you read what I wrote: I said nothing about walking up to a group of people and asking them. I did say that if I were in charge of a gathering then I might then feel the need to ask the individuals coming, although at this point that would be unlikely to be the case unless there were high risk people in attendance who might choose not to attend if others were unvaccinated. So yes: I would only ask if it make a difference to someone.

Who are you to ignore their real concerns because it isn't allowed at your "own the libs" social event?

Feel free to insert your "it's not social event, I have real and logical reservations" excuse here: _______________________

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Zeus posted...

It kinda is. You want somebody to be with you just in case s*** goes wrong. They really leave you to the wolves. Honestly, the f***ing store pharmacist didn't even check on me iirc, which is what they're literally supposed to do.

Both places I went had seating available and people were instructed to hang around for 15 minutes post-shot while somebody supervised everyone to make sure nobody seized or stopped breathing or anything like that.

Zeus posted...

And there's no good reason to tell somebody anything other than to f*** off when they ask you something about your medical history.

Depends entirely on the context. In a scenario where that particular piece of medical history is relevant (which applies to most public places during a public health crisis like this), the question is perfectly legitimate and being combative like that is entirely a dick move on your part.

If you choose to breathe my air, the things you are breathing into that air become my business. Don't get upset when I make an effort to control that to protect myself.

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There is a real reason -- and more of a reason than a "yes" -- because it is none of their fucking business.

So, no real reason then.

Philip027 posted...

So, no real reason then.

not sure what part of "none of their fucking business" you failed to understand.

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Oh, I think I understand just fine. And that's exactly why I interpret the whole "none of your business" thing as a no.

BEERandWEED posted...

Since your first response is a terribly dumb analogy, I will just ignore the rest of your post that promotes the governments fearmongering and a totalitarian level of control over personal freedoms.

Iol

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Philip027 posted...

Oh, I think I understand just fine. And that's exactly why I interpret the whole "none of your business" thing as a no.

you know the phrase when you assume, you make an ass of you?

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