Current Events > The worst way to make money, tax wise, is working a job

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pretty fucking ridiculous system weve got huh?

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i don't understand the point you're trying to make. do you mean because jobs force you to pay the taxes you owe or what? or because the capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes?

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

i don't understand the point you're trying to make. do you mean because jobs force you to pay the taxes you owe or what? or because the capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes?

Youre taxed more for working for your money than for passive income

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Thought it was worse tax-wise to be self-employed because then you have to pay double payroll taxes.

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The system is working as intended.

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Not really. Incentivizing people to make long term investments is a good thing

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Maybe we need to work out a way to classify wages as unrealized gains somehow, like an IRA with no limits, and withdrawals are taxed at the capital gains rate.

When you mine fiat: It's taxed.
When you buy items: It's taxed.
When you mine crypto: It's taxed.
When you sell crypto: It's taxed.

Joe Biden: Why don't we tax unrealized capital gains too?

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Best way to make money is to already have money

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Pepys Monster posted...

When you mine fiat: It's taxed.
When you buy items: It's taxed.
When you mine crypto: It's taxed.
When you sell crypto: It's taxed.

Joe Biden: Why don't we tax unrealized capital gains too?

Yeah man this is all Joe Bidens fault

Seriously though what is wrong with you?

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We should raise capital gains tax. Don't @ me.
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emblem boy posted...

We should raise capital gains tax. Don't @ me.

Capital gains should be taxed higher than income

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shockthemonkey posted...

What about incentivizing people to work

The need for food and shelter generally covers that

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UghWhoCares posted...

emblem boy posted...

We should raise capital gains tax. Don't @ me.

Capital gains should be taxed higher than income

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shockthemonkey posted...

Right, gotta keep the poors in their place

I don't think the fact of life that almost all people need to work to live is "keeping the poors in their place" but okay.

The need to work for an income is basically universal, the need to save a portion of that income and invest it is not. Disincentivising people to invest their savings into the larger economy with heavier taxation is a colossally stupid idea.


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shockthemonkey posted...

Yeah what an awful idea, people will surely stop trying to make passive income and choose to do actual work instead and that would be soooo awful

No, they'll work the same amount and put less, if anything into retirement. And yeah, that's a pretty awful outcome

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Oh no, the genius who thinks it's a good economic practice to disincentivize reinvestment of capital thinks I don't know what I'm talking about.

I doubt my self esteem will ever recover

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If capital gains tax I'll going to not pull my money out of the S&P index funds where I actually do nothing and still gain money!

Na, I'm being facetious there, but like, there's ample reason to invest in the market outside of tax savings. And it's not as if the average person is doing most of their investments in taxable brokerages compared to 401k and IRA anyway.

I guess you could say it incentives investment in stocks rather than something like real estate, but that has its own pros/cons
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The best way to make money is to be rich.
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Pepys Monster posted...

When you mine fiat: It's taxed.
When you buy items: It's taxed.
When you mine crypto: It's taxed.
When you sell crypto: It's taxed.

Joe Biden: Why don't we tax unrealized capital gains too?

I wish Joe Biden said that

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emblem boy posted...

If capital gains tax I'll going to not pull my money out of the S&P index funds where I actually do nothing and still gain money!

Na, I'm being facetious there, but like, there's ample reason to invest in the market outside of tax savings. And it's not as if the average person is doing most of their investments in taxable brokerages compared to 401k and IRA anyway.

I guess you could say it incentives investment in stocks rather than something like real estate, but that has its own pros/cons

Oh wow, not sure what happened with my typing there.

Should be "oh no If capital gains tax increases I'm going to pull my money out of the S&P index funds where I literally do nothing and still gain money!
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I make 46k/year before tax. It's enough to have a decent life in the Midwest where I'm at. After Tax, I make 37k. I should not be paying $9,000 in State and Federal taxes every year. It's 22% of my income.

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Anyone that's a middle class or lower citizen shouldn't have to pay tax on a home or vehicle purchase and if a sales tax on those kind of purchases exist it should be lowered to like 3%. This is a state issue of course.

I mean really a family goes to get a new car which costs like 25k these days and they're going to finance it so they probably pay $2500 on principal interest, an extra $1000 on interest over the 5 year time span with excellent credit and let's assume a low state sales tax of 5% that's like $1,250 in tax. That's about $5,000 more than the listing price of the vehicle!!!

No wonder the middle class can't get anywhere

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That's what happens when the tax code itself is written on behalf of people with a net-worth 4 or more orders of magnitude higher than the average person.

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I don't know man. I know we all want the rich to pay more taxes, but like...middle class do have to pay taxes also if we want the kind of distributive system we all say we want.
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emblem boy posted...

I don't know man. I know we all want the rich to pay more taxes, but like...middle class do have to pay taxes also if we want the kind of distributive system we all say we want.

Of course. But the tax system is wildly unequal.

Two people live in the same state. One person makes 60k/Year, and the other makes 80k/Year. For the sake of the argument, there's no state taxes.

Guy on 60k is married. He gets a $24,500 tax deduction. Guy on 80k is single. He gets a $12,500 tax deduction.

60k married taxable - $35,500, 12% tax rate. He pays $4,260 in taxes. He'll have $55,700 at the end of year.

80k single taxable - $67,600, 22% tax rate. This guys pays $14,872 in taxes. He'll have $65,000 at the end of the year.

Is that fair?

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Single


Married


Who do you think is getting treated unfairly?
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Just sell drugs, no tax

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emblem boy posted...

Single


Married


Who do you think is getting treated unfairly?

Everyone in the middle class. Neither person in that example is paying an amount that's fair, but unmarried individuals and people who file separately if married are carrying a much larger burden than people who file jointly.

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Perascamin posted...

but unmarried individuals and people who file separately if married are carrying a much larger burden than people who file jointly

You don't know if the married situation is 2 people making 30k each or if it's one person making 60k and the other is stay at home. It's household income.
And when kids are in the picture, the tax code gives some positives because it was decided to encourage marriage and child rearing. I'm actually not seeing what's unfair about the married jointly difference.
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Godnorgosh posted...

emblem boy posted...

Single


Married


Who do you think is getting treated unfairly?

This is certainly a take

What do you mean?
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Single person making 60k



Married household making 60k


I mean sure. If you want to make those more equal, sure I wouldn't be bothered.

How do you feel about how kids impact taxes?
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Perascamin posted...

Of course. But the tax system is wildly unequal.

Two people live in the same state. One person makes 60k/Year, and the other makes 80k/Year. For the sake of the argument, there's no state taxes.

Guy on 60k is married. He gets a $24,500 tax deduction. Guy on 80k is single. He gets a $12,500 tax deduction.

60k married taxable - $35,500, 12% tax rate. He pays $4,260 in taxes. He'll have $55,700 at the end of year.

80k single taxable - $67,600, 22% tax rate. This guys pays $14,872 in taxes. He'll have $65,000 at the end of the year.

Is that fair?

This reads as almost purposely misunderstanding the married/single tax brackets

the married guy making $60k doesnt get a $24,500 deduction. Him and his spouse collectively get a $24,500 deduction

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Damn this topic took a turn

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TheGoldenEel posted...

This reads as almost purposely misunderstanding the married/single tax brackets

the married guy making $60k doesnt get a $24,500 deduction. Him and his spouse collectively get a $24,500 deduction

There's a lot of people who have a spouse not in the work force, believe it or not

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emblem boy posted...

Single person making 60k



Married household making 60k


I mean sure. If you want to make those more equal, sure I wouldn't be bothered.

How do you feel about how kids impact taxes?

It's like $2000 a kid or something outlandish.

I bring all of this up because I have a coworker who is married with 4 children. We make the same wages but at the end of the year, he receives roughly 12k back on taxes because of all the credits he gets.

Edit: and no, he doesn't pay more than expected into taxes.

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Uh the tax code incentivizes people to have children because it's good for the countries long-term viability.

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SK8T3R215 posted...

Uh the tax code incentivizes people to have children because it's good for the countries long-term viability.

And it's still unviable to be a single parent, however, because there's no control on the housing market and daycare are unaffordable for the lower end of the middle class. There's even health insurance options now to help cover the cost of daycare. It's a clown world.

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Perascamin posted...

I make 46k/year before tax. It's enough to have a decent life in the Midwest where I'm at. After Tax, I make 37k. I should not be paying $9,000 in State and Federal taxes every year. It's 22% of my income.

Why not?

I'd bet you use more than $9000 worth of government services in a year.

Not worrying about where your garbage goes after you put it to the curb is worth about half that alone.

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Daycare used to be affordable when the old lady on the 3rd floor would watch everyone's kids for about $25 a week.
Then, someone in a suit would show up with a couple cops to shut it all down for being unlicensed, and now your only option is a place across town that charges $1500 a month.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Daycare used to be affordable when the old lady on the 3rd floor would watch everyone's kids for about $25 a week.
Then, someone in a suit would show up with a couple cops to shut it all down for being unlicensed, and now your only option is a place across town that charges $1500 a month.

I'm curious if parents now would be fine with that previous arrangement if those minimum child/watcher restrictions went away.
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emblem boy posted...

I'm curious if parents now would be fine with that previous arrangement if those minimum child/watcher restrictions went away.

You can dump your kids at grandma's house for free, yet it requires a fuckton of paperwork for someone else's grandma to watch your kids if there's any money exchanged.

Questionmarktarius posted...

emblem boy posted...

I'm curious if parents now would be fine with that previous arrangement if those minimum child/watcher restrictions went away.

You can dump your kids at grandma's house for free, yet it requires a fuckton of paperwork for someone else's grandma to watch your kids if there's any money exchanged.

I mean, there's a difference between dropping your kid off at Grandma's and dropping off 10 kids at someone else's grandma's.
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