Current Events > So Spider-Man and Hawkeye spoilers.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It seems pretty convenient that the Netflix versions of Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk both made official MCU debut this week.

I put debut in quotes because Netflix Marvel has always been loosely connected to the MCU, but never did anything outside small references like the battle for NYC.

I wonder what the future is for the rest of the Marvel Netflix characters?

Yeah, they timed this shit really well.
It was also Charlie Cox's (Matt Murdock) birthday yesterday.

The ending of the movie is also during the Christmas season, coinciding with Hawkeye's story.

I hope they recast Iron Fist.

au_gold posted...

I hope they recast Iron Fist.

Yeah they fucked up on Iron Fist

I never got around to Iron Fist. Is it really as bad as they say?

ViewtifulGrave posted...

I never got around to Iron Fist. Is it really as bad as they say?

It's the worst of the 4, but I didn't think it was unwatchable. Just a bit more CW than the rest, and the casting decisions weren't great. It had some okay moments though.

Season 2 of Iron Fist is somewhat better, but even then it's only like a 5/10. It's Danny himself that really tanks the show. And it's not even the actor, it's how they write him -- he's just the most annoying person on the fucking planet.

ViewtifulGrave posted...

I never got around to Iron Fist. Is it really as bad as they say?

It was the worst and absolutely too long. Shang did the martial artist aspect so much better its insane.

Rharyx211 posted...

The ending of the movie is also during the Christmas season, coinciding with Hawkeye's story.

There was also an ad for Rogers the musical.

Spidey was on his way to some sort of crime at Christmas time as the movie ended

Possible cameo in the Hawkeye finale?

It could work, though I feel like it would be a very minor one in poor lighting that doesnt show off the new suit too much and spoil anything from NWH

Murdock was in the movie before Strange's spells, so it wasn't caused by that. I think the Netflix shows will be alternate realities from the MCU, like the rest of NWH, and these MCU versions will take the best aspects from the Netflix shows. I don't think those will ever be MCU canon, just multiverse adjacent.

Makeveli_lives posted...

It was the worst and absolutely too long. Shang did the martial artist aspect so much better its insane.

This. The first season in general isn't too horrible, but the lead actor is just the fucking worst, enough that we never bothered with the second season. I've heard it better because he isn't the main focus. Eh.

Definitely going to finish that third season of Daredevil though. They're absolutely going to pull from it going forward, even if the show won't likely be canon.

MagnusX posted...

Murdock was in the movie before Strange's spells, so it wasn't caused by that. I think the Netflix shows will be alternate realities from the MCU, like the rest of NWH, and these MCU versions will take the best aspects from the Netflix shows. I don't think those will ever be MCU canon, just multiverse adjacent.

Marvel Netflix was always loosely based in the MCU. The battle of New York had a big influence on Marvel Netflix. It is possible that Kingpin and Daredevil are variants, but as of right now they can still fit in naturally.

Union Allied Construction was the company, founded by Wilson Fisk, which oversaw the reconstruction of Hell's Kitchen following the damage caused during the Battle of New York. The company also acted as the faade for the illicit activities and money laundering operations for Fisk's criminal associates.

On the other hand, there were also people less positive. For example, there was Senator Boynton who publicly called for the regulation of people with superpowers.[4]Another example was Audrey Eastman, who in 2015attempted to kill Jessica Jones to get revenge on "gifted people" for the death of her mother who was crushed under rubble during the Chitauri invasion, saying that the Avengers were the cause of the attack on the city, not its saviors.[16]

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Marvel Netflix was always loosely based in the MCU. The battle of New York had a big influence on Marvel Netflix. It is possible that Kingpin and Daredevil are variants, but as of right now they can still fit in naturally.

All the old Netflix/tv shows are absolutely based on the MCU. However, the inverse is not true and none of the movies reference anything from the shows due to the vast production differences between Feige and Perlmutter. I maintain that Netflix is not canon, just multiverse adjacent.

Also, I don't think DD and Kingpin are variants using the Loki definition; they're not acting out of their timeline. They are merely MCU characters that look like and have many similar experiences to the Netflix ones but from the MCU not the Netflix alternate universe, like how Earth 616 is different from the MCU (even though Mysterio mistakenly calls it just that in Far From Home).

Thats just a long winded way to say that they are variants.

Iron Fist s1 was pretty bad with a few bright spots. Season 2 was an improvement, but still just alright. The tease for s3 looked like it had potential though. I hear the big problem with the production of iron fist was that it was a martial arts show that they didn't give them any time to actually choreograph or train for and it really showed in season 1.

The biggest issue with the marvel shows on Netflix was that they were all just too damn long. Those last 4 episodes were always a struggle, they were just so stretched out.

The only one that used the episodes well was Daredevil I felt, because those seasons were structured in little mini-arcs that would last a few episodes and tie into the big overarching story.

au_gold posted...

I hope they recast Iron Fist.

Why? The actor really wasnt the issue, it was the fight choreography that was bad.

Important to remember that the Netflix stuff was never officially de-canonized.

I imagine we'll see broad strokes references to certain character dynamics, but they won't explicitly reference events from the show. That way, it leaves it open to viewer interpretation without needing to open that can of worms.

Rharyx211 posted...

And it's not even the actor, it's how they write him -- he's just the most annoying person on the fucking planet.

This. He constantly proclaims that decades of training has given him absolute control of his emotions. Then he constantly stresses our and has hissy fits over things he claims to not care about. He'd be annoying even if he wasn't supposedly the master of his own mind. Also, for one with such training and having gained that power, he sure does seem awfully incompetent at pretty much everything.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Important to remember that the Netflix stuff was never officially de-canonized.

I imagine we'll see broad strokes references to certain character dynamics, but they won't explicitly reference events from the show. That way, it leaves it open to viewer interpretation without needing to open that can of worms.

They were never officially canonized either. The movies dont call back to the Netflix shows and while they can use the actors, the stories still belong to Netflix, so if Marvel wants to use them, they would have to pay Netflix. They will probably make their own stories/shows with the characters for Disney+. Seems more likely than making a deal with Netflix.

Until Feige says Netlfix shows aren't canon to the MCU,they're canon.

If Spiderman can get a cameo in Hawkeye, that would be the biggest mind blown ever because they timed that shit perfectly.

LightHawKnight posted...

They were never officially canonized either. The movies dont call back to the Netflix shows and while they can use the actors, the stories still belong to Netflix, so if Marvel wants to use them, they would have to pay Netflix. They will probably make their own stories/shows with the characters for Disney+. Seems more likely than making a deal with Netflix.

The Netflix shows were stated to be part of the MCU at their inception. You'd need something saying otherwise. We know the reason it didnt pan out that great was because of internal issues and not because they considered it something else.

The Netflix shows were also made by ABC Studios, which is owned by Disney. The shows are Disney's. Netflix just distributed them and the only condition they had was that Disney couldn't use any of the characters for 2 years, which has long passed. They have already said several times that it could have easily shown up on Hulu and Feige said it could still be revived today, but that their D+ shows were more of a focus for now.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Important to remember that the Netflix stuff was never officially de-canonized.

I imagine we'll see broad strokes references to certain character dynamics, but they won't explicitly reference events from the show. That way, it leaves it open to viewer interpretation without needing to open that can of worms.

This. Ignoring the canon conversation, because fuck me it's stupid, the Netflix shows just have too much baggage to deal with going forward. Everyone who wants to see them has already done so and they aren't going to worry about reintroducing all of this stuff to a new audience. It'll be fresh stories that might have ties to previous things and completely ignore stuff that didn't pan out well. Daredevil and Kingpin have dealt with each other before but they won't really go into detail. That kind of thing.

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Until Feige says Netlfix shows aren't canon to the MCU,they're canon.

Cottonmouth is now a vampire

Anyways

Daredevil had a nice but very unimportant cameo.

Dr Strange in Ragnarok was brief but worked.

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Until Feige says Netlfix shows aren't canon to the MCU,they're canon.

Thhis is basically it. We never had reason to believe otherwise so unless word of god says no, they're canon. Especially with the reappearance of the actors people were begging to come back.

archedsoul posted...

The Netflix shows were stated to be part of the MCU at their inception. You'd need something saying otherwise. We know the reason it didnt pan out that great was because of internal issues and not because they considered it something else.

The Netflix shows were also made by ABC Studios, which is owned by Disney. The shows are Disney's. Netflix just distributed them and the only condition they had was that Disney couldn't use any of the characters for 2 years, which has long passed. They have already said several times that it could have easily shown up on Hulu and Feige said it could still be revived today, but that their D+ shows were more of a focus for now.

This

Wait, we do have reason to think they might not be canon. He was.NOT a lawyer by the end of the series. He introduces himself as one here. Now there is an easy explanation for this, but that is evidence they might not be.

Blue_Popo posted...

Cottonmouth is now a vampire

Minn-Erva is now... a different alien.

dave_is_slick posted...

Wait, we do have reason to think tthey might not be canon. He was.NOT a lawyer by the end of the series. He introduces himself as one here. Now there is an easy explanation for this, but that is evidence they might not be.

He wasn't a practicing lawyer but he's not disbarred or anything. And that would also explain why he was just explaining Peter and Happy's options and told the latter to get a good attorney. He wasn't directly representing them.

Also, the last time we saw Matt was, what, 2018? The current MCU is now in 2024. Anything could have happened during that time.

archedsoul posted...

The Netflix shows were stated to be part of the MCU at their inception. You'd need something saying otherwise. We know the reason it didnt pan out that great was because of internal issues and not because they considered it something else.

The Netflix shows were also made by ABC Studios, which is owned by Disney. The shows are Disney's. Netflix just distributed them and the only condition they had was that Disney couldn't use any of the characters for 2 years, which has long passed. They have already said several times that it could have easily shown up on Hulu and Feige said it could still be revived today, but that their D+ shows were more of a focus for now.

Then why arent the Netflix shows on Disney+? Marvel isn't going to promote another streaming site if they can help it.

LightHawKnight posted...

Then why arent the Netflix shows on Disney+? Marvel isn't going to promote another streaming site if they can help it.

Because Netflix still has distribution rights to what was created. It's not like they left Netflix.

Bringing in Daredevil and Kingpin with the same actors is already promoting the Netflix shows.

archedsoul posted...

Because Netflix still has distribution rights to what was created. It's not like they left Netflix.

Bringing in Daredevil and Kingpin with the same actors is already promoting the Netflix shows.

Its not if they dont use their stories and make their own backstory. As long as they dont push the connection, people dont "have" to watch the Netflix shows.

MagnusX posted...

Murdock was in the movie before Strange's spells, so it wasn't caused by that. I think the Netflix shows will be alternate realities from the MCU, like the rest of NWH, and these MCU versions will take the best aspects from the Netflix shows. I don't think those will ever be MCU canon, just multiverse adjacent.

wrong

murdock was in the movie after strange's spell 4 PETER.

the spell strange cast that wong 4got was done b4 the movie started, so it could have been that spell that brot murdock over

LightHawKnight posted...

Its not if they dont use their stories and make their own backstory. As long as they dont push the connection, people dont "have" to watch the Netflix shows.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The Netflix stuff was made by Disney and is just distributed by Netflix.

Disney has no reason to act like that stuff doesn't exist. It's one of the most popular shows ever and all media, whether it's on Netflix or Disney+, overall promotes that particular character and they could also still be getting paid in relation to that deal.

Just by getting both of them back, they know people will 100% associate it with the Netflix stuff. No reason to hide that. Backstory is not even necessary. They can just appear and mention nothing.

WarfireX posted...

wrong

murdock was in the movie after strange's spell 4 PETER.

the spell strange cast that wong 4got was done b4 the movie started, so it could have been that spell that brot murdock over

Yeah, no. Murdock shows up after Peter gets arrested as his public defender. Then after they are released and apply/fail to get in MIT, that's when Strange casts the spell. There was no spell cast before the movie.

MagnusX posted...

Yeah, no. Murdock shows up after Peter gets arrested as his public defender. Then after they are released and apply/fail to get in MIT, that's when Strange casts the spell. There was no spell cast before the movie.

yes there was u just missed it becuz u didnt pay attention

strange talks about it w/wong. this is the spell that brought murdock/kingpin/venom over and probably also made it so fury is played by samuel l jackson insted of tommy lee jones

archedsoul posted...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The Netflix stuff was made by Disney and is just distributed by Netflix.

Disney has no reason to act like that stuff doesn't exist. It's one of the most popular shows ever and all media, whether it's on Netflix or Disney+, overall promotes that particular character and they could also still be getting paid in relation to that deal.

Just by getting both of them back, they know people will 100% associate it with the Netflix stuff. No reason to hide that. Backstory is not even necessary. They can just appear and mention nothing.

If they want people to focus on disney+, they will focus on making their own stories instead of using others.

WarfireX posted...

strange talks about it w/wong. this is the spell that brought murdock/kingpin/venom over and probably also made it so fury is played by samuel l jackson insted of tommy lee jones

You're just making shit up.

WarfireX posted...

yes there was u just missed it becuz u didnt pay attention

strange talks about it w/wong. this is the spell that brought murdock/kingpin/venom over and probably also made it so fury is played by samuel l jackson insted of tommy lee jones

Ah, okay, so you're just trolling with blatantly made up shit. Not gonna bother wasting my time replying to you anymore.

LightHawKnight posted...

If they want people to focus on disney+, they will focus on making their own stories instead of using others.

They will be making their own stories. The Netflix shows are just the starting foundation. People watching already canceled shows on Netflix will not take any thunder away from Disney+

LightHawKnight posted...

If they want people to focus on disney+, they will focus on making their own stories instead of using others.

Focusing on Disney+ and and moving forward does not require "making their own stories" or whatever that means. The past can exist and not be mentioned at all. It's been 7-8 years by the time Hawkeye ends since Daredevil ended.

A lot of you are overthinking this. Nobody behind these things has made any intention to decanonize and have even said they want a season 4, so I have no idea why so many people are expecting so much effort in redoing everything just because some things are on Netflix. Which is much like how a lot of syndication works.

LightHawKnight posted...

If they want people to focus on disney+, they will focus on making their own stories instead of using others.

If they didn't want anyone to connect them to the Netflix shows then they'd have used different actors. Disney/Marvel Studios obviously don't care or actively want people to connect the two. They definitely aren't against the idea, though.

Rharyx211 posted...

You're just making shit up.

wong says no 2 the spell

strange says weve used this spell 4 less then talks about some party

wong gives him a blank face like "wtf r u talking about?", audience laughs.

u werent paying attention. take the L

WarfireX posted...

yes there was u just missed it becuz u didnt pay attention

strange talks about it w/wong. this is the spell that brought murdock/kingpin/venom over and probably also made it so fury is played by samuel l jackson insted of tommy lee jones

Yeah, no. That's not why Murdock was in No Way Home, the spell was to forget things and they didn't screw it up like they did with the one Peter wanted.

You clearly misunderstood what Strange and Wong said.

archedsoul posted...

Focusing on Disney+ and and moving forward does not require "making their own stories" or whatever that means. The past can exist and not be mentioned at all. It's been 7-8 years by the time Hawkeye ends since Daredevil ended.

Daredevil ended 4 years ago

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Thats just a long winded way to say that they are variants.

Wouldn't necessarily say that, but it's not also not necessarily wrong either.

As far I remember, Loki defines variants as versions of characters that do something to change Kang's "sacred timeline" (ie the MCU as we've seen so far) in a big enough way that allows for the more evil Kangs to pop up instead of that "benevolent" one, which is why they are trimmed. The Loki we watch in Loki is not the same Loki that we see in Ragnarock; the show Loki is a variant and the movie Loki is not.

Pedantic for sure, but the term was introduced a specific way and hasn't been used otherwise in-world.

WarfireX posted...

wong says no 2 the spell

strange says weve used this spell 4 less then talks about some party

wong gives him a blank face like "wtf r u talking about?", audience laughs.

u werent paying attention. take the L

Wong didn't say no to the spell. You're only basing your claim on what you seen in the trailer.