Current Events > I'm finding this anime Joe Rogan stuff confusing

(+) Yeah! (+)

Regarding how some people are pulling music or unsubscribing from Spotify. For those against doing that, is it that they think this specific issue isn't worthy of pulling music or unsubscribing? Or is it that they think doing it in a way that could be seen as an ultimatum, is bad/"censorship"?

I don't like that he obviously has played (in my opinion) a role in spreading some anti-vax rhetoric. And I'm not going to minimize what that might mean for those whose family members have been impacted by that. I personally wouldn't boycott Spotify or anything like that, but I really have no issue with others wanting to.

But like... people boycott airlines or shopping at various grocery stores for the most miniscule of reasons. If someone doesn't want to subscribe to a company paying Rogan, I really find it hard to see it as "canceling". It might not be the most efficient method of activism, but it's definitely not new or more petty than someone deciding not to shop at xyz store because 1 out of thousands of employees were rude to them one time.

Damn it.

Anime = whole

Yeah like how did he even get to dub in an isekai

You wouldn't be confused if you read the manga.

I don't have an anime joke so I'll just say that when the right cancels it boycotting. When the left boycots, it's cancelling.

emblem boy posted...

Damn it.

Anime = whole

You see, when you discover your own typo in the title, you dont post about it immediately and lock the topic in place. You copy your post, delete it, then just make a new topic with the title corrected.

Instead, you now have a topic about anime Joe Rogan. Enjoy.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/4/0/AAEqD0AAC5Q4.jpg

lol @ this topic

Youre more than entitled to not give your money to a company you dont like and these artists are more than entitled to pull their music in protest.

but lets call it what it is. These artists want to coerce Spotify into removing a podcast to try and prevent me and you from being able to freely choose whether or not to listen to it.

Southernfatman posted...

I don't have an anime joke so I'll just say that when the right cancels it boycotting. When the left boycots, it's cancelling.

Oh I'll definitely agree there's a stupid amount of hypocrisy in this situation.

But even if people were actually being good faith in those kind of criticisms, I just find this weird push where criticizing something else is enough to be seen as canceling.

Solid Snake07 posted...

Youre more than entitled to not give your money to a company you dont like and these artists are more than entitled to pull their music in protest.

but lets call it what it is. These artists want to coerce Spotify into removing a podcast to try and prevent me and you from being able to freely choose whether or not to listen to it.

When is it not bad to try to demand a change from a company? Essentially, when is a boycott bad?

If these people just unsubscribed or pulled music without mentioning Joe Rogan, would that have been better?

Solid Snake07 posted...

Youre more than entitled to not give your money to a company you dont like and these artists are more than entitled to pull their music in protest.

but lets call it what it is. These artists want to coerce Spotify into removing a podcast to try and prevent me and you from being able to freely choose whether or not to listen to it.

It's called a boycott, actually.

Honestly, I think my annoyance comes from those who criticize the "boycotters" using free speech rhetoric.

Ultimately it's really just a matter of what we each think should be socially acceptable.

I just wish people would admit that's the argument.

But it annoys me because people keep arguing against Rogan criticism from a principled free speech rhetoric of no one being allowed to even imply that a company should remove someone..but we know that's not true. They just don't think THIS issue is worthy of a removal. There are many other criticism and boycotts that they would support.

emblem boy posted...

When is it not bad to try to demand a change from a company? Essentially, when is a boycott bad?

If these people just unsubscribed or pulled music without mentioning Joe Rogan, would that have been better?

bad is a bit too arbitrary. I simply disagree with their motives. Im a believer in the ability to have a free flow of discourse and ideas. Free discourse means there will be at least some misinformation and things I dont agree with out there. That to me is preferable than anyone acting as the arbiters of what is and isnt the truth.

The medical establishment has spread some misinformation throughout the past 2 years about this virus. That doesnt mean they need to be dismantled and silenced, it means they got some things wrong.

Guide posted...

It's called a boycott, actually.

Okay?

Solid Snake07 posted...

bad is a bit too arbitrary. I simply disagree with their motives. Im a believer in the ability to have a free flow of discourse and ideas. Free discourse means there will be at least some misinformation and things I dont agree with out there. That to me is preferable than anyone acting as the arbiters of what is and isnt the truth.

And that's fully fine. But that leads back to my original question, how should criticism work? Should all these people just add a disclaimer to their criticism saying "but don't remove Joe Rogan podcast"

Like, I said above,

It just seems as if there's a weird push where criticizing someone else is enough to be seen as canceling. And I'm curious how to get past that, since criticism is a strong part of free speech as a cultural norm

Not giving your money to a company that does things you don't like is also free speech.

Solid Snake07 posted...

Im a believer in the ability to have a free flow of discourse and ideas.

At the expense of the free speech that enables boycotting? You have an oversimple idea of "free flow of discourse". Start with figuring out what that even means. Is everyone entitled to any platform they want?

"Free speech" is just one of the many buzzwords for many on the right. They will never argue in good faith. Besides, you don't see them complaining about free speech being trampled on or cancellation when they "cancel" people they don't like.

Being called out on or being made responsible for their negative actions is seen as persecution.

emblem boy posted...

And that's fully fine. But that leads back to my original question, how should criticism work? Should all these propel just add a disclaimer to their criticism saying "but don't remove Joe Rogan podcast"

Like, I said above,

It just seems as if there's a weird push where criticizing someone else is enough to be seen as canceling. And I'm curious how to get past that, since criticism is a strong part of free speech as a cultural norm

I have no issue with people criticizing or challenging the things Joe Rogan has said on his podcast.

but if were talking about Neil Young, Jodi Mitchell and whoever else, theyve made it very clear their intentions are to get him taken off the platform. Which, as I said earlier, is their right to do. But I disagree with them.

As far as cancelling goes, its pretty much become a buzzword that doesnt have any real meaning to it anymore. Which is why I try to avoid using it.

Guide posted...

At the expense of the free speech that enables boycotting? You have an oversimple idea of "free flow of discourse". Start with figuring out what that even means. Is everyone entitled to any platform they want?

I opened this topic saying they have every right to do what theyre doing.

I can still disagree with them

Southernfatman posted...

"Free speech" is just one of the many buzzwords for many on the right. They will never argue in good faith. Besides, you don't see them complaining about free speech being trampled on or cancellation when they "cancel" people they don't like.

Being called out on or being made responsible for their negative actions is seen as persecution.

It's a rhetorical tool as far as I'm concerned. Very few people are actually free speech absolutists. People just disagree on where the line should be drawn.

Phrasing your arguments by saying you're for people people being "free" to speak, makes your criticism/argument sound more persuasive though.

Solid Snake07 posted...

I opened this topic saying they have every right to do what theyre doing.

I can still disagree with them

Yes, I'm not asking you about your thoughts on their rights. I'm criticizing your idea of "free flow of discourse". Hence why my post concerned that, and not your thoughts on their rights.

The problem is that spotify is trying to act like theyre not responsible for what they put out on their service. Except theyre even less able to male the argument than someone like Facebook.

Spotify is almost exactly the same as the radio and television channels we regulate through the FCC aside from the actual equipment used to deliver it.

Although I can listen to spotify through one of my cable providers apps so really its nonexistent.

divot1338 posted...

The problem is that spotify is trying to act like theyre not responsible for what they put out on their service. Except theyre even less able to male the argument than someone like Facebook.

In Rogan's case specifically they've given him tens of millions of dollars to put him out on their service

Guide posted...

Yes, I'm not asking you about your thoughts on their rights. I'm criticizing your idea of "free flow of discourse". Hence why my post concerned that, and not your thoughts on their rights.

Not sure I really get the distinction youre trying to make.

Im not in favor of blocking them from being able to exercise their right to protest or boycott whoever they want. But their goal is to silence someone through coercion. I dont agree with that and it doesnt get the okay from me just because I agree they have the right to do it.

emblem boy posted...

Damn it.

Anime = whole

You could've just deleted the topic and create a new one with corrected title.

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

You could've just deleted the topic and create a new one with corrected title.

Yeah but that's no fun either. Plus I'm on mobile so I'd have to spend time copy pasting topic title and message body into a new tab or whatever. This was easier.

Alt Right Anime Joejoe Rogansan