Current Events > Facepalm: This War of Mine got review bombed for supporting Ukraine.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/2/5/AALk4HAAC_Eh.jpg

A game made by a Polish developer where you play as the helpless civilians fighting for survival in a warzone. Gee... who would the devs support? Fucking duh!

Great game btw, get it if you haven't.

Putin shills should be deported to Russia.

Lol

I believe it's based on the Bosnian war as well

There are a lot of parallels between that war and this, though it's not nearly the same. In both cases you had an aggressive imperialist neighbor try to "get back" land where some of their people live or used to live

noooooooooooooooo

I couldnt play the dlc for that game, the Little Ones. Actually made me depressed.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/9/6/AALk4HAAC_HM.png

https://store.steampowered.com/app/322190/SteamWorld_Heist/#app_reviews_hash
Steamworld Heist is getting review bombed too for showing support to Ukraine.

Why are the review bombing the game?

Are the devs using the game's social media to post opinions? Or is it just the devs posting opinions?

Because the opinions of the devs about matters are separate to the game, and as such no score positive or negative should be given to a game as a consequence of the opinions of the devs.

If they are using the game page directly or something to post political opinions, this opinion might be slightly different, and if the game itself somehow contains these statements that is even more different, but I suspect it's neither of those.

The thoughts/opinions of creators have no bearing on the quality of a game and thus should have no bearing on it's score.

@joe40001 some devs on Steam have pledged to donate all sales profits for a week to either the Ukrainian or International Red Cross.

Apparently some people are offended by this.

This War of Mine is a fun game. I love it.

St0rmFury posted...

@joe40001 some devs on Steam have pledged to donate all sales profits for a week to either the Ukrainian or International Red Cross.

Apparently some people are offended by this.

The devs have every right to give their money to whoever they want.

Using steam itself to announce this probably isn't necessary though. It does conflate the product with the devs a little bit, even if it is a good cause.

I bet if the devs just posted this to their twitter they wouldn't have had this reaction. Posting it directly to the steam page in some way (if I'm understanding you correctly, and that's what they did) was probably a mistake.

They have a right to do that, put IMO it is not in spirit of what steam itself is for.

Steam is a platform for games, not a social platform for game developers. Game developers have plenty of platforms where they can express their personal beliefs, but these people are separate from the games they create.

joe40001 posted...

The devs have every right to give their money to whoever they want.

Using steam itself to announce this probably isn't necessary though. It does conflate the product with the devs a little bit, even if it is a good cause.

I bet if the devs just posted this to their twitter they wouldn't have had this reaction. Posting it directly to the steam page in some way (if I'm understanding you correctly, and that's what they did) was probably a mistake.

They have a right to do that, put IMO it is not in spirit of what steam itself is for.

Steam is a platform for games, not a social platform for game developers. Game developers have plenty of platforms where they can express their personal beliefs, but these people are separate from the games they create.

All the profits are going to a good cause. It's like donating, but you get a free game out of it.

Nothing wrong with that at all, especially for something like this. Slava Ukrani.

joenumbers, shut your fucking mouth and stop defending this bullshit.

joe40001 posted...

The devs have every right to give their money to whoever they want.

Using steam itself to announce this probably isn't necessary though. It does conflate the product with the devs a little bit, even if it is a good cause.

I bet if the devs just posted this to their twitter they wouldn't have had this reaction. Posting it directly to the steam page in some way (if I'm understanding you correctly, and that's what they did) was probably a mistake.

They have a right to do that, put IMO it is not in spirit of what steam itself is for.

Steam is a platform for games, not a social platform for game developers. Game developers have plenty of platforms where they can express their personal beliefs, but these people are separate from the games they create.

It's literally an anti-war game. The entire concept is how hard it is to survive as a civilian during a war and the cost it has to regular people.

So no it is not a mistake and it isn't separate.

Welp, I bought the DLCs for This War of Mine & Steamworld Heist + DLCs.

It's not much but every little bit helps.

Jesus Christ, leave it to Joe to have a nuanced opinion about his.

Punished_Blinx posted...

It's literally an anti-war game. The entire concept is how hard it is to survive as a civilian during a war and the cost it has to regular people.

So no it is not a mistake and it isn't separate.

The game and the specific political cause aren't the same thing. You can support both and it would make sense to support both, but they are not explicitly tied together.

The devs support the Ukrainian people which makes total sense, but that is different than this game itself being literally tied to that specific cause.

The devs are obviously free to use their money however they want. But there there is a conceptual distinction between "sales from this game go to Ukraine" and "we donate our profits from this game to Ukraine".

It may seem pedantic, but the devs are supporting Ukraine and not the game itself. I don't think reviews of the game positive/negative should be altered by this though.

St0rmFury posted...

Welp, I bought the DLCs for This War of Mine & Steamworld Heist + DLCs.

It's not much but every little bit helps.

You know, you can donate more directly too, right? Steam likely takes a cut if you do it this way.

Joe, I thought I told you to shut the fuck up.

pegusus123456 posted...

Joe, I thought I told you to shut the fuck up.

This statement is rude and contributes nothing.

I saw that on GOG, and ended up getting the game

joe40001 posted...

I bet if the devs just posted this to their twitter they wouldn't have had this reaction.

yeah but not for the asinine reason you're thinking of but moreso because they wouldn't even have reached 1/10th the amount of steam users if they did.

joe40001 posted...

This statement is rude and contributes nothing.

Then it's worth more than everything that falls out of your fucking keyboard because your posts actively detract not only from this board but the inherent worth of humanity itself. So next time you feel the need to spew the sort of stupid shit you've vomited out in this topic, remember my advice and shut. The fuck. Up.

pegusus123456 posted...

Then it's worth more than everything that falls out of your fucking keyboard because your posts actively detract not only from this board but the inherent worth of humanity itself. So next time you feel the need to spew the sort of stupid shit you've vomited out in this topic, remember my advice and shut. The fuck. Up.

I am speaking towards the subject matter of the topic. You are simply insulting the merit of what I say without any evidence that what I say lacks merit.

You routinely do this across topics and I do not see the point. If you think there is something flawed with what I am saying, then speak to the flaw. If not, it's fairly useless and aimless to just show up in every topic I am in and insist I, and my communication, is awful in some horrible unforgivable but also completely non-specific way.

St0rmFury posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/9/6/AALk4HAAC_HM.png

https://store.steampowered.com/app/322190/SteamWorld_Heist/#app_reviews_hash
Steamworld Heist is getting review bombed too for showing support to Ukraine.

If you set the filters to include other language reviews, you will notice most of the recent negative reviews coming from Russian accounts

joe40001 posted...

I am speaking towards the subject matter of the topic. You are simply insulting the merit of what I say without any evidence that what I say lacks merit.

The evidence that what you say lacks merit is self-evident because you're criticizing a charitable effort with no downside, so shut the fuck up.

Joenumbers really, truly just can't help himself. It's a compulsion.

AsucaHayashi posted...

yeah but not for the asinine reason you're thinking of but moreso because they wouldn't even have reached 1/10th the amount of steam users if they did.

Yes they'd also reach fewer people if they limited it to their personal accounts.

Honestly, I don't know if it's appropriate or not. It seems like a good cause, but I can also understand the argument that steam pages are meant to be places relevant to the game themselves and not how the developers are spending their income from the games.

joe40001 posted...

Honestly, I don't know if it's appropriate or not. It seems like a good cause, but I can also understand the argument that steam pages are meant to be places relevant to the game themselves and not how the developers are spending their income from the games.

Jesus christ, you're such a pimple.

pegusus123456 posted...

The evidence that what you say lacks merit is self-evident because you're criticizing a charitable effort with no downside, so shut the fuck up.

I'm not saying it's "bad", but speaking to if it is technically appropriate.

You seem to be responding from an emotional place and my thoughts are not about that part at all. I am not passing a moral judgement on it. My thoughts are a question of if a steam game page is an appropriate place to host the political views of it's developers.

I'm not casting judgement on those views or developers, I too think Ukraine needs our support and help. Even so, that doesn't change the fact that a steam game page is supposed to be in service of the game and not a social media platform for the developers.

A game or movie or any creative content itself is an entity, how the money received from the sale of content is conceptually separate from the content itself. So I was arguing it might be a mistake to conflate them in this way. If not "a mistake" then technically inappropriate in the context of the function of steam.

joe40001 posted...

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that a steam game page is supposed to be in service of the game and not a social media platform for the developers.

this isn't some culture war where someone's feelings got hurt

a mad dictator is lobbing missiles into residential complexes as we speak

there is a humanitarian crisis going on right now, and any attempt to raise awareness for helping out these civilians is justified

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Joenumbers really, truly just can't help himself. It's a compulsion.

It's just Dunning-Kruger. He doesn't know when to shut up because if he did you wouldn't hear him in the first place.

joe40001 posted...

I'm not saying it's "bad", but speaking to if it is technically appropriate.

Here, lemme help you out: it is. End of story. Shut the fuck up.

FL81 posted...

this isn't some culture war where someone's feelings got hurt

a mad dictator is lobbing missiles into residential complexes as we speak

there is a humanitarian crisis going on right now, and any attempt to raise awareness for helping out these civilians is justified

I think this topic might just be an issue of how I see things differently as a function of my mild Autism Spectrurm Disorder (officially diagnosed, mods).

To me, it's perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about the potential inappropriateness of using a steam game page for non-game related posts. But it seems like for some people the emotional stakes of the issue make that separate discussion seemingly impossible or impractical.

The specific function of a steam page is game related content, and so if the devs are using it for anything else, even personal morally justified political causes in keeping with the themes of the game, in my mind that is arguably inappropriate.

Which isn't to say it is morally wrong, or even an error as a means to an end, but just technically wrong in the context of the the purpose of a steam page.

It is like when anybody violates a potentially unjust law. Are they still technically violating the law? Yes. Is it justified? It can be, and more importantly it is a separate question to the question of if it is a law violation.

Using a steam game page to post political views I believe is technically inappropriate to the purpose of a steam game page. That doesn't mean it is morally wrong, or not potentially in service of the greater moral good, but it does mean that, as I understand it, that is not the appropriate use of a steam game page.

Note, this is different if their comments are limited to some kind of dev page and not the game page itself.

I'm not even sure I'm disagreeing with anybody here, just that I'm speaking to specific technical appropriateness issue that people here might not notice or care about considering the broader emotional/moral stakes.

ChocoboMog123 posted...

It's just Dunning-Kruger. He doesn't know when to shut up because if he did you wouldn't hear him in the first place.

By bringing up Dunning-Kruger it would seem that you are suggesting that I'm unintelligent. But I don't think I've said anything here that is inaccurate. Furthermore, when tested for intelligence I scored quite well, so if you intend to insult my intelligence I would request that you 1. Do it more directly, 2. Provide some citation or argument for what I am in error about.

Because otherwise this kind of comment I find to be passive aggressive, rude, and unfounded.

I think I'd probably hate that game. But good on them for donating

joe40001 posted...

By bringing up Dunning-Kruger it would seem that you are suggesting that I'm unintelligent. But I don't think I've said anything here that is inaccurate. Furthermore, when tested for intelligence I scored quite well, so if you intend to insult my intelligence I would request that you 1. Do it more directly, 2. Provide some citation or argument for what I am in error about.

Because otherwise this kind of comment I find to be passive aggressive, rude, and unfounded.

The number one thing you shouldn't say when you want people to think you're smart is that you're smart

Smackems posted...

The number one thing you shouldn't say when you want people to think you're smart is that you're smart

Perhaps if I was pulling it out of my ass. But I specifically had an IQ test. The entire purpose of which is to assess intelligence.

It's like how when people would call me "anti-vaxx" I'd show them my vaccine card. I dislike attacks/insults that are inaccurate, and it seems like the most direct dismissal of such insults is objective tangible refutations of it.

I have many flaws, and have resultingly very low self-esteem, which is all the more reason that I do feel it is important and justified to stand up for myself when somebody insults me on one of the few dimensions I have reason to believe I can truthfully defend myself on.

Honestly, me being not-unintelligent is about the only single thing I think it's fair for me to feel any iota of self-esteem about because I had it measured as accurately/objectively as anybody knows how.

joe40001 posted...

I have many flaws,

Finally, something you said that wasn't jaw-droppingly stupid.

I'm just replying because you directly replied to me. You've been on ignore for a long while now, so don't bother responding to this post because I won't see it unless someone quotes it (please don't).

"The DunningKruger effect is the cognitive bias whereby people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

You constantly talk outside of your area of expertise (whatever that is). You give your opinion on matters where:
1) You don't have any strong base of knowledge
2) No one wants to hear your opinions.
It's like showing up to a funeral and talking about how the dead guy is a schmuck because he owes you $5. Just shut the fuck up, no one asked you.

The first post I see of yours in this topic is, "Oh, the devs have every right to do this, and it's for a good cause, but..." No. Just shut up. Nobody wants to hear your take on it. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you need to share it.

joe40001 posted...

To me, it's perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about the potential inappropriateness of using a steam game page for non-game related posts.

Even if there was no charity angle, and the devs did nothing but post "Support Ukraine" on the game page, it would still be fine. It's a goddam store page for a video game, not the entrance lobby of the Supreme Court.

You are over-analyzing something that is so extremely simple and offering devils advocate arguments in a situation that doesn't warrant them, for an audience that doesn't deserve your advocacy.

And IQ tests are nothing but a measure of problem solving skills under a specific set of rules and structure. Being able to guess "x" in a sequence of seemingly random numbers means that you can solve puzzles. There is also emotional and social intelligence, which is just as important as logical intelligence, which you have shown yourself to be severely lacking.

ChocoboMog123 posted...

I'm just replying because you directly replied to me. You've been on ignore for a long while now, so don't bother responding to this post because I won't see it unless someone quotes it (please don't).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

You constantly talk outside of your area of expertise (whatever that is). You give your opinion on matters where:
1) You don't have any strong base of knowledge
2) No one wants to hear your opinions.
It's like showing up to a funeral and talking about how the dead guy is a schmuck because he owes you $5. Just shut the fuck up, no one asked you.

The first post I see of yours in this topic is, "Oh, the devs have every right to do this, and it's for a good cause, but..." No. Just shut up. Nobody wants to hear your take on it. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you need to share it.

These aren't arguments against my perspective, just your insistence that I'm not allowed to have any opinion for some reason.

There is no "expertise" being exercised in this topic, It is a topic literally about the developers actions and the response to it. I am just as valid to have and express and opinion on it as anybody else.

You have shown no evidence that my opinion is less valid than anybody else's nor evidence why it is inappropriate to express an opinion on the developers and the reaction in a topic whose subject is literally that.

The point of a discussion topic is to discuss the topic. That's what I did, and you have said nothing to demonstrate that my opinion was flawed or unwarranted.

You don't have a perspective. You are using a pretty clear-cut case of politically-motivated review bombing to have an unrelated thought experiment, and a pretty dumb one at that.

If you were as intelligent as you claimed, you'd realize that

A) companies using their product to support a cause, especially through charity or donation of profits, is extremely common and that

B) sharing this announcement via the "news" portion of the product page is SOP and that

C) the vast majority of people complaining about corporate political activism aren't doing so out of concern for the "ethics of steam pages", and that

D) there is a reason your post incited an intense emotional response, and that it would be prudent to think about why that is, instead of doubling down on your right to intellectual masturbation

Kim_Seong-a posted...

Even if there was no charity angle, and the devs did nothing but post "Support Ukraine" on the game page, it would still be fine. It's a goddam store page for a video game, not the entrance lobby of the Supreme Court.

You are over-analyzing something that is so extremely simple and offering devils advocate arguments in a situation that doesn't warrant them, for an audience that doesn't deserve your advocacy.

It may "be fine" while also being inappropriate. I can understand how people could react negatively and positively to injecting political statements on steam game pages.

Personally I am inclined to think a game page should be limited to the game itself and so should the reviews. So I do think there is a valid argument to say it's inappropriate to do that with your steam game page.

Even so I can understand somebody saying "I don't care if it's inappropriate, I'm doing it anyway." and them feeling quite morally justified in doing so, and I wouldn't object morally. My concern about the issue isn't a moral one.

In addition this topic is about the review bombing, which (in addition to the review anti-bombing) I do not support. I do however, understand how using a game page as a social platform for personal political views (even well justified moral ones) is capable of prompting a negative reaction.

And IQ tests are nothing but a measure of problem solving skills under a specific set of rules and structure. Being able to guess "x" in a sequence of seemingly random numbers means that you can solve puzzles. There is also emotional and social intelligence, which is just as important as logical intelligence, which you have shown yourself to be severely lacking.

I don't claim high emotional or social intelligence. It is likely my ASD would be evidence to suggest otherwise. My intuition would also be that I am fairly low in both, particularly the social intelligence.

St0rmFury posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/9/6/AALk4HAAC_HM.png

https://store.steampowered.com/app/322190/SteamWorld_Heist/#app_reviews_hash
Steamworld Heist is getting review bombed too for showing support to Ukraine.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be a gamer.

So S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2 Heart of Chernobyl is going to be reviewed bombed like crazy if it is released this year I take it? If these other games are being attacked for the developers supporting Ukraine I can't imagine what a game made by Ukrainians will go though.

joe40001 posted...

It may "be fine" while also being inappropriate. I can understand how people could react negatively and positively to injecting political statements on steam game pages.

If you could actually understand this, you'd not be taking the opportunity to pointlessly pontificate on the issue.

Personally I am inclined to think a game page should be limited to the game itself and so should the reviews.

This is not how it has ever worked in pretty much any store in the entire history of stores. Even random ass gas stations will have charity boxes for specific causes. Department stores will ask if you want to donate a dollar of your purchase to their cause of the month. There is no reason to compartementalize these things into wholly independent spheres of society unless you lack a fundamental understanding of the human experience.

So I do think there is a valid argument to say it's inappropriate to do that with your steam game page.

But that's not an argument being made by anybody, except you.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

You don't have a perspective.

I don't see how this statement could be accurate.

You are using a pretty clear-cut case of politically-motivated review bombing to have an unrelated thought experiment, and a pretty dumb one at that.

IMO it's a related discussion of the merits of conflation of a piece of content (even one with political themes) and the explicit political views of it's creators outside that content.

If you were as intelligent as you claimed, you'd realize that

Already addressed

A) companies using their product to support a cause, especially through charity or donation of profits, is extremely common and that

B) sharing this announcement via the "news" portion of the product page is SOP and that

Are both these things true? I don't recall it being a common thing on steam at all, but I could be wrong.

Is this something steam explicitly recognizes as part of the function of the game page?

C) the vast majority of people complaining about corporate political activism aren't doing so out of concern for the "ethics of steam pages", and that

They are likely doing it out of an objection to injecting politics where it is potentially not appropriate. Which isn't an indefensible position.

By purchasing a game you are not expressing interest in the personal views of the games creators. Surely you could imagine some content you enjoyed considerably but whose creators held views you did not like, I think in such a context you would acknowledge that the content and the views of the creators are not the same thing, and as such you can enjoy or value the former without endorsing the latter. As such, in principle, you'd agree with me that content and creator views are separate things and a creator is not entitled to conflate them.

Hypothetical Thought Experiment:
Imagine you sat down to see the latest mission impossible movie, but before you did Tom Cruise took 1 minute to say "hey, just to let you know, all of the profits of this movie are going to Scientology, and you all should look into it, because it is the true way to salvation. Ok enjoy the movie."

Couldn't you imagine being annoyed by that?

If yes, then you understand the issue being addressed and the only difference is that the suffering of the people of Ukraine is a much much much much more important cause than Scientology.

Valuing content is different than implicitly endorsing the content creator's political views, and so I don't support the review bombing but can understand the potential origin of the
frustration.

D) there is a reason your post incited an intense emotional response, and that it would be prudent to think about why that is, instead of doubling down on your right to intellectual masturbation

The necessity of injecting political opinions in places where it might not be appropriate is more than intellectual masturbation. It is an important topic that I think people dismiss to hastily at their own peril.

Perhaps the related political issue is too tragic and thus too emotional to for many to calmly have this discussion, but I do think it is a valid discussion to have.

I wonder why we don't do the pojr thing more often in dealing with trolls. It's a silly communal trend, and it can be used to show that a userbase isn't going to deal with bad faith bullshit. No idea what started the trend in regards to pojr, but I've seen it used elsewhere in response to trolls to clown on them and drown them out.

Like on Tumblr there was a guy who said he'd have a human pet if it was legal among other stuff, and the communal response was to create reblog chains consisting of the phrase "Kung pow penis" letter by letter, pojr style, in response to his weird asinine bullshit.

Folks are always like "ugh joenumbers, don't like that user", but as soon as he posts again somebody feels the need to feed the guy. Why not make a mockery of the conversation instead of trying to get one up on some dumb-ass troll shit?

joe40001 posted...

I don't claim high emotional or social intelligence. It is likely my ASD would be evidence to suggest otherwise. My intuition would also be that I am fairly low in both, particularly the social intelligence.

Just letting you know that this is probably why you're not really comprehending this the same way as others are.

Steam store pages are not clinical product pages. Developer updates for all matter of things is a standard and normal practice for the platform. Developers can treat the Steam page as a blog.

Now you can say "they shouldn't" but again this is a standard practice that nobody would otherwise think of. The only difference here specifically is that Russian users of Steam are angry and are review bombing the game. Something they could do regardless. We have seen similar things happen on Steam many times and the store page isn't always the cause.

joe40001 posted...

Perhaps if I was pulling it out of my ass. But I specifically had an IQ test. The entire purpose of which is to assess intelligence.

It's like how when people would call me "anti-vaxx" I'd show them my vaccine card. I dislike attacks/insults that are inaccurate, and it seems like the most direct dismissal of such insults is objective tangible refutations of it.

I have many flaws, and have resultingly very low self-esteem, which is all the more reason that I do feel it is important and justified to stand up for myself when somebody insults me on one of the few dimensions I have reason to believe I can truthfully defend myself on.

Honestly, me being not-unintelligent is about the only single thing I think it's fair for me to feel any iota of self-esteem about because I had it measured as accurately/objectively as anybody knows how.

Tldr