Board 8 > Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony - A KCF Playthrough Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

For me it was probably something like:

Cases: 3.5 > 3.6 > 3.1 > 3.4 > 3.2 > 3.3

Characters:

1. Kaito
2. Maki
3. Kokichi
4. Kaede
5. Ryoma
6. Angie
7. Himiko
8. K1-B0
9. Rantaro
10. Shuichi
11. Kirumi
12. Miu
13. Korekiyo
14. Tsumugi
15. Gonta
16. Tenko

Monocubs: Monodam > Red > who cares

KCF0107 posted...

16. Kokichi

Boo hiss boo

13. Gonta

Everything about Gonta screams that he was the final character they decided on as they just simply ran out of ideas. A Tarzan character in the 2010s? You knew what he was going to say from a mile away as well as the antiquated jokes involving him. He was also useless with investigations and the trials. He just doesn't fit at all in a game like this. He manages to avoid the bottom three having an agreeable personality.

At least Gonta is amusingly useless instead of zany useless. Right, Akane?

My full character ranking (and incomplete chapter ranking) is here: http://clubsthatsuck.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=2816

Spoilers for all three games, people who are only here for DRV3 though.

KCF0107 posted...

Survivors:
- Kaede
- Kirumi
- Maki
- Ryoma
- Gonta
- Keebo

Victims:
- Tenko
- Miu
- Shu
- Rantaro
- Koki

Murderers:
- Himiko
- Tsu
- Angie
- Kaito
- Kiyo

All things considered, I did pretty well on my predictions based on first impressions

So I played the Salmon Team mode, and it was basically like the other post-game modes from previous games. Without the item grinding though, there's nothing to break up the monotony. Well, technically I am forced to enter the casino at night, but I can only play one game, which is just weird.

I also tried to card development game. I successfully went around the board in time, but then I got surgery and lost all my levels and play just resumed, so I have no idea how that mode is supposed to end or anything. I ended up just quitting, but maybe I need to fail to progress?

The board game is used to power up your characters for the dungeon crawling RPG.

Oh okay, I see my mistake. I thought the board ended when I reached the goal, but it still goes on. I actually like the board game part, but too bad the payoff for your efforts are some basic and lame turn-based RPG. I'm probably done with that. I will probably just wrap up outstanding friendship stuff and call it a game.

The Board Game/RPG stuff is intruiging, but ultimately only really worth doing if you want the related achievements IMO (And it's a huge grind to do that)

It's fun for all of the cross-cast scenes, but those are on youtube too.

I am less than proud to say I've spent over 100 hours on that mode to go through it twice for some god damn reason. Trying to get a perfect board game run is just addicting to me.

MrSmartGuy posted...

I am less than proud to say I've spent over 100 hours on that mode to go through it twice for some god damn reason. Trying to get a perfect board game run is just addicting to me.

I mean, I have the plat trophy for this game. I definitely know the feeling.

12. Rantaro

I don't think that I can place him any higher given. While other first victims placed much higher, they were utilized differently with Rantaro mostly existing a tease with a mysterious background and knowledge of prior events. V3 also really just focused on Shu and Kaede in the beginning, so he was given less of a chance to stand out. He seemed like he could have been pretty chill, but "could have" is the operative phrase here.

11. Maki

In a high plot, low character work of fiction like Danganronpa, the key is usually to find suitable roles for the cast. Kaz and Aoi each placed second on previous lists despite being random backups because their agreeable personalities worked well for moral support and also in the forefront when the need arised. Maki is just simply ill-fitting as the female leading replacing Kaede.

Her archetype of a cold, distant girl who became more proactive in the group's survival as the killing game progressed didn't do much for me on its own, but the weird thing is how Maki didn't actually do much. Once there was a murder, she might have been present, but she kind of faded into the background as Shu carried both the investigation and trial portions.

To be honest, none of the female archetypes were suitable to replace Kaede. Kirumi and Tsu probably come the closest, but really it should have just been Keebo.

10. Angie

Of all the characters in the game, Angie probably had the least variance to her. It is to her advantage then that she was just outgoing and chipper the entire game with few exceptions. She sometimes couldn't read the room, so her occasionally ill-timed cheerful outbursts were a bit funny. Unfortunately, the only other aspect to her personality was her devotion to the mysterious Atua, and she injected that in almost every conversation, including multiple times in a single discussion. That bit got old fast. The moment her role was elevated to be a potential secondary antagonist, she was predictably killed, and that was the end of that.

9. Kaito

I think that Kaito could have worked out very well in a limited comic relief role as a hyper-focused, over-the-top goofball that he sometimes exhibits. Elevating him to a share of the spotlight once Kaede left was ultimately not the right move. He had the larger personality to potentially fit, and it sometimes worked, but they didn't wield it responsibly, often to the detriment of my enjoyment.

Yeah, I get that the Luminary of the Stars is the one people look to for inspiration and renewed vigor, but stop derailing my investigations and trials with the same cookie-cutter convictions ad nauseam that only serve to disrupt the pacing and mood.

16. Kokichi
15. Tenko
14. Tsumugi
13. Gonta
12. Rantaro
11. Maki
10. Angie
9. Kaito
8. ???
7. ???
6. ???
5. ???
4. ???
3. ???
2. ???
1. ???

Considering what you said I'll predict Ryoma making it into like the Top 3.

8. Kirumi

I wish that her pre-chapter murder self wasn't so tied to her title, and she had one of the dumbest "twists" I guess you would say as a means to give her motive for murder, but, and you will see that I value this with several other characters, I liked her even-keeled demeanor during the investigative and trial portions and would actually contribute to the discussions instead of presenting nonsense not worth my time.

7. Kaede

I can't put her any higher than this. She was different from the other two protagonist, and I was welcoming a more assertive and proactive protagonist. If she remained in her original role, I feel confident that she would place in my Top 2. Unfortunately, her stay was brief as it came to an end in an awful bit of storytelling that I unfortunately have to use as a knock against.

I didn't go into much detail before, but having an unreliable protagonist is a difficult thing to do, but there are a few routes to go to make it easier and effective. It's more of a challenge to pull off in video games, especially in a game like Danganronpa. The way they failed here was just baffling. An integral part of the game is the being privy to the inner thoughts of the protagonist as the story unfolds and inspecting the environment. They chose to remove and/or replace thoughts that Kaede would have obviously had throughout the second half of the chapter even as I clicked on things critical to her pulling off a murder, such as the vents, warehouse box full of shot puts, and books in the library. To lie to the player and then turn around and use those lies in an attempt to make a clever shock felt insulting.

I could and maybe should penalize her more for that, but I don't know, it would still feel weird putting her below the likes of Kirumi and Angie.

6. Miu

In a way, it is stunning that Miu finished this high. She's basically how I would imagine a 12-year-old heterosexual boy would write in a fanfiction what he thinks a cool and sexy high school girl is. Her cringe level, especially when she gets turned on, can get very high and belongs in the upper tier of cringiest characters in the series, and that's saying something! With better writing, her juvenile quips could have been pulled off as absurdist humor, but it's just very hit-or-miss here.

Yet, I find her endearing in spite of all that's weighing her down. It helps that she shared something that I found funny about Mondo, and that's her little remarks her voice actor makes that doesn't match the text but gives a similar vibe. She even uses Mondo's "Piece of shit!" I think what ultimately had her finish 6th instead of the 9th-11th that I was originally thinking was what I said about her before.

This is a setup where characters are expected to kill for the right to escape. You don't need these contrived sob stories of not remembering, not having a choice, or whatever. The justification, in a manner of perspective, is in the game, Miu plotted a murder, including efforts to frame someone, all for the reason of wanting to leave. Sayaka was my #1 from THH purely for how she was utilized, and that included her having a similar goal as Miu. Because neither had their sob stories, both had to fail and die, but they still tried.

KCF0107 posted...

I could and maybe should penalize her more for that, but I don't know, it would still feel weird putting her below the likes of Kirumi and Angie.

Yeah, I'd say that is a fair assessment. Kaede is probably a character who sounds better on paper or when you're telling about her to someone else, but the writing in-game just isn't tight or clever enough to really pull off the unreliable narrator trope perfectly.

Maki > Shuichi > Kaito > Kiyo > Keebo > Kaede > Kirumi (there sure are a lot of K names in this game) > Miu > Gonta > Kokichi > Ryoma > Himiko > Tenko > Rantaro > Angie > Tsumugi

Kiyo's twist that he was a batshit insane serial killer, and that his second kill made absolutely zero sense, would've dropped him a lot more in my rankings if he didn't spend those kills on just about the best two people alive at that point. Thank you, Kiyo; you were a tremendous asset.

16. Korekiyo
15. Angie
14. Tsumugi
13. Tenko
12. Himiko
11. Keebo
10. Rantaro (if you come in below the unknown guy, that's pretty bad)
9. Shuichi
8. Miu
7. Maki
6. Kokichi
5. Gonta
4. Ryoma
3. Kaito
2. Kirumi
1. Kaede

3-1 > 3-5 > 3-2 > 3-4 > 3-3

The twist of 3-1 worked for some of us.

Whether someone liked that outcome is up to them, but there's no debate that it was the result of lying to and manipulating the player at every turn for most of that chapter.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I think I like the series a lot and forgive its numerous flaws more than most people here, and I was pretty well invested which meant 3-1 definitely worked for me. Kaede is probably a top three character in the series and I thought she was really fun to play as. Plus I was kinda excited not having to play as a horny little anime protagonist boy, but alas, Danganronpa couldn't resist. Honestly, I reckon the game could have been better if it stuck with her PoV the whole way through even if the first case suffered for it.

Edit: I don't really mind the game lying about stuff. If you're treating it as a game about solving crimes, which is definitely the bit you seemed to enjoy most, then I can definitely understand the disappointment. I personally just like the style along with the absurdity, and it being Mafia: The Video Game.

I outlined why I thought the way they went about making Kaede an unreliable narrator was terrible storytelling.

5. Korekiyo

Eccentric, but it's subdued to a palatable level that makes him charming in a way. It also isn't some nutso/inane obsession that makes him eccentric but human culture. I remarked, or at least I think I did, way back that he initially reminded me of a character from another video game that I like in Caustic from Apex Legends. That turned out to be true in more ways than one. I don't recall him being of much assistance in the investigation portions except maybe his own murder, but he did shine in the trials.

It's shame that they did him dirty like they did randomly making him into a mentally ill serial killer and also have him commit the second murder that ultimately did him in because he didn't want his setup to go to waste. He deserved better than that crap, but it didn't knock him down much in the rankings.

4. Himiko

Like the other games, the characters are pretty one or two dimensional. They typically have a base personality that they demonstrate for the overwhelming majority of the time and shift to a second for dramatic or comic effect when the game desires. As is the case, I will usually know if I will like a character's personality from the get-go. Himiko, this lazy girl who insists she is capable of magic, was not someone at first impression that I thought would be my top-ranked female character at . Yet, I grew fond of this silly doofus.

Her dramatic form did nothing for me, but whenever she was adamant about her magical prowess, I kept envisioning her doing magic tricks and physically struggling with them to the point of being disheveled and out-of-breath during the big reveal, and I couldn't help but chuckle to myself.

3. Shuichi

Shu is quite the departure from the previous main protagonists because his skill had a practical use for the killing game that was made front and center. While characters like Angie, Koki, and Kaito "ruled" the pre-murder portions of chapters, it was the Shu show once a body dropped. I could do without his mundane struggle to believe he was worthy of his title, but his display during this critical segments of the game really made me appreciate that I was not having to watch/be in control of Makoto.

Shu as a character isn't particularly interesting, so he really gets here almost solely based on his relatively strong showings during investigations and trials.

16. Kokichi
15. Tenko
14. Tsumugi
13. Gonta
12. Rantaro
11. Maki
10. Angie
9. Kaito
8. Kirumi
7. Kaede
6. Miu
5. Korekiyo
4. Himiko
3. Shuichi
2. ???
1. ???

1. Ryoma
2. Keebo

KCF0107 posted...

Whether someone liked that outcome is up to them, but there's no debate that it was the result of lying to and manipulating the player at every turn for most of that chapter.

I wasn't refuting your position, only offering a disagreement. I didn't see it as built on lies. Moreover, the series did something very important with that case, which is that they dispelled the illusion of plot armor. There were enough clues that Kaede could be up to something, without it being front and center, that I don't feel cheated. You can argue that lying by omission is still lying, and call her an unreliable narrator, and whatever, but I honestly don't see any of those as accurate. We aren't getting a livestream of what's in her head, so we're not privy to all her thoughts, or else we'd have to hear about a lot more than we do. The snapshots the game gives us showed us everything we needed to experience the case without spoiling it for us.

But my character ranking is also nothing like yours, with my bottom character being your #5 and your worst being my #6, so obviously it just hits different.

I'm not going to get really into the character debates here, but Korekiyo is fantastic.

2. Ryoma

When I first met Ryoma, all I could think about was his voice. I mean it's better that he have an ill-fitting deep voice than some annoying shrilly voice to make him seem like he's nine, but I still don't know how I feel about it. What I can say is that it's a damn shame that he was killed off so quickly. If you gave me a choice of having Ryoma last until the end or have it so Tenko never existed, I honestly think I would take the former, and Tenko is shit character with no redeeming qualities!

Ryoma was not buddies with anyone and made no attempt to do so, but he did take the situation seriously and made a concerted effort when the need arised. I forget what the trial mechanic is named where you had to do a one-on-one battle cutting through lines, but his in the first trial impressed me because he addressed a problem with a reasonable position and when presented with counter evidence, he was open-minded and accepted the new theory. He is the kind of character that I want to be in the game for a long time, not people like Maki, Gonta, and Tsu who just totally fade in the background and basically only participate in trials to pose a banal position/question just so the writers give them something to do.

Ryoma reminds me of how I felt about Mahiru from GD in that there's something there, like the potential of a hidden depth that the rest of the cast doesn't possess that unfortunately would never come to fruition because they had to be murdered.

1. Keebo

From a pure character standpoint, Keebo is not my favorite in the game, but the way and frequency that he was utilized makes up the difference to give him my #1 spot. In a thought that I'm certain his persecution complex would interpret as a phobic remark, when I saw on the box art that there was going to be a robot character, I did not have high hopes for him.

Imagine my glee when almost immediately it turns out that he is unremarkable as a robot with the strength of a healthy senior citizen and innate abilities that commonplace objects, that you can find in the warehouse no doubt, are able to do. This was a common source of humor, and it had an excellent hit rate. The rest of the cast ragged on him a lot for other reasons and they were had a high hit rate. My favorite line in the game was in Angie's lab after her body was discovered and Kiyo said he planned to hold a seance. They needed five people and four volunteered. I want to say Himiko and Koki said a few lines basically saying that he can come but weren't too pleased with it and Keebo responded, "Why am I being forced to come and being treated like a burden?" That hilarious scene stuck with me all game.

Other than being a great direct or indirect source of humor, Keebo was very underrated as an asset in the game. With having arguably the most pleasant attitude, he was very proactive during investigations and trials and presented reasonable arguments and had valuable information to give. In a game where the vast majority of characters with the ability to consistently contribute to their cause were killed by the halfway point, Keebo's presence was vital to keeping things from being stale. I don't want to think about a scenario in which Shu was left with Gonta, Angie, Himiko, and Tsu.

In all, this was a better cast than the other two games. If every character was featured in our board's Do You Like This Character project, there might be five from this game that I would say yes to, which is roughly equivalent to what I would say about the first two games combined.

16. Kokichi
15. Tenko
14. Tsumugi
13. Gonta
12. Rantaro
11. Maki
10. Angie
9. Kaito
8. Kirumi
7. Kaede
6. Miu
5. Korekiyo
4. Himiko
3. Shuichi
2. Ryoma
1. Keebo

Yeah DRV3's cast is easily the best. I'd say it has both highest highs but highest lows as well. Even my least favorite (Tenko) is still better than Hifumi and Teruteru (and probably a couple others).

Oh, absolutely. I have Tsumugi at the bottom of my list, yet in an overall ranking, I'd have her above Hiyoko, Teruteru, Hifumi, Yasuhiro, Akane, Toko, Mikan, and Makoto. I just did an impromptu tier list to make sure I got everyone.

Breakdown by game:
DR1: 2 S-Tier, 4 A-Tier, 3 B-Tier, 3 C-Tier, 4 D-Tier
DR2: 6 S-Tier, 3 A-Tier, 2 B-Tier, 1 C-Tier, 2 D-Tier, 2 F-Tier (Teruteru and Hiyoko deserved their own bottom tier)
DRV3: 3 S-Tier, 6 A-Tier, 3 B-Tier, 3 C-Tier, 0 D-Tier

God damn, DR2 sure has nothing in the middle, huh. Anyway, yeah, V3 very well-rounded with a cohesive cast. I do have Maki 5th overall, though, behind Nagito, Aoi, Hajime, and Sakura. V3 doesn't have any super good characters, but it really stocked up on pretty good ones.

I still prefer DR2's cast because I think it still has the highest highs but DRV3's cast felt more like a group to me.

DR1: 2 SS-Tier, 3 S-Tier, 1 A-Tier, 4 B-Tier, 5 C-Tier, 1 D-Tier, 0 F-Tier, 0 FF-Tier
DR2: 1 SS-Tier, 2 S-Tier, 4 A-Tier, 3 B-Tier, 2 C-Tier, 2 D-Tier, 1 F-Tier, 1 FF-Tier
DR3: 4 SS-Tier, 3 S-Tier, 2 A-Tier, 2 B-Tier, 4 C-Tier, 0 D-Tier, 1 F-Tier, 0 FF-Tier

DR1 has a very amenable cast, but a lot of them feel underutilized, hence why ten of the sixteen fall into the average section of the list.

DR2 has a more developed cast in terms of the individual characters, but they don't gel well together at all. As a result, you have this group that lives or dies entirely on whether you like their individual personality traits, and they have very little definition outside of that. Aside from someone getting killed or being a killer in any given chapter, most of DR2's cast feels like they're just filling space as a result. Hence why DR2 has a LOT of really low rankings.

DR3 has the strongest cast. It takes DR1's cohesion of the group, and DR2's emphasis on individual personalities, and meshes them extremely well. There's only really the one BAD character, and other than that, even the worst characters have some redeeming factors.

Inviso posted...

There's only really the one BAD character

Who's that?

Anagram posted...

Who's that?

Bland ass plot device Tsumugi.