Poll of the Day > My sister in law has ruined their finances.

(+) Yeah! (+)

She's trying to get approved for disability income, as she does have a degenerative disease(bone I think, not 100% certain). She's been out of work for over a year, but the doctors are saying she's still in a good health and should be able to work. Especially since she's gone to college for things that can be remotely, and should be able to work from home.

Instead, my brother works 40 hours a week, has to put in 40 hours over time a month, and find about 60 hours of time to door dash just to come close to earning enough to cover her spending.

He was here yesterday, and said they have a $700 house payment, water/electricity, and internet bills. Despite earning over $5,000 a month working like he does they still can't afford to pay their bills because of her spending.

She's "in charge" of the finances to make it easier on him, supposedly. Yet, he's locked out of his own accounts and she refuses to let him see where the money goes.

They've been asking for us to give the $2,500 for a new car for her. Mom and dad couldn't get that kind of money, cousin refused, so I offered them $1,500 instead. My brother came and picked it up yesterday. To make things easier on him, dad offered to let him use my mom's car. So last night mom got a message from them thanking for giving them the car for free(which wasn't the intention, but apparently was worded badly enough that took it that way).

So, I asked the obvious "If they're taking the car, do I get my money back?" Because at this point it totally sounds like giving them money is the same as burning it, and is already agreed before we knew the situation they were in... Nope! They're keeping the money too.

Idk, I guess I just never expected to be taken advantage of by him. He's always been the financially responsible one and would never let himself get in over his head. So when they couldn't afford a car, I just figured things were a little tight and I could help them out.

He said he tells her when they buy dinner "This cost me an hour of my life." To try and demonstrate that he works for the money she spends... but he didn't seem to grasp that he took an entire month paycheck from me. >_>

Ive been saying it for years. You need to get the fuck away from these people.

Id literally beat my brothers ass if he stole and lied like that

And didnt you just quit your job? Youre in no position to be charitable. You need to break your habits and start thinking more selfishly, its the only way youll ever prevent people from taking advantage of you.

Mensis posted...

Ive been saying it for years. You need to get the fuck away from these people.

Id literally beat my brothers ass if he stole and lied like that

Yeah, I was saving up to find my own place. I probably have enough to get an apartment, but...

Mensis posted...

And didnt you just quit your job? Youre in no position to be charitable. You need to break your habits and start thinking more selfishly, its the only way youll ever prevent people from taking advantage of you.

Yeah, I quit Friday night. Yesterday was the first day I didn't go in. I'm sure I could get the job back if I decided, but right now I'm not planning on that. I do have a lot saved up, so the money I gave wasn't a massive loss, but it wasn't exactly a small one either.

Once I agreed to give the money to my brother a week ago dad has been hounding me for money too. First he said I could give him 2,500 since I wasn't giving that much to my brother. I refused. Then he said the least I could do is to give him $1,200 to buy his friends old used pick up. I refused. Then he asked for $150 to buy a lawnmower attachment. I never even responded to him. Then yesterday he told me to give him $250 for the same attachment, I was like "it was only $150 yesterday, what happened?" and he said he was going to put 100 on it but now I'll just be buying it straight up.

Also, since we're losing mom's car(I guess), she'll be taking mine. Which leaves me with no way to go anyway, and even if I had a job I'd have to bum a ride now. This just sucks.

It is hard to tell family and friends no and many of the ones who realize that will constantly prey upon your kindness. I am sorry you are going through this. Practice no. Also, your brother needs to take back a little more control of his life but if you try to talk to him about it or might make both him and her mad. It is a touchy situation.

Don't give them any more money. Full stop.

I have a brother like this. He would lie and use his kids to guilt me into giving him money. It will never end unless you end it. You gotta just cut them off and let them fend for themselves.

Your brother his a grown man and should be able to fend for himself. He needs to get control of the finances away from his spouse and either work out a budget with her and oversee the spending, or cut her out of budgeting responsibilities all together if she is unable or unwilling to cooperate and control her spending. Give your brother this advice and be done with it. You're not responsible for their situation and you shouldn't be made to feel like a bad relative or feel guilty for refusing to flush your hard-earned money down their toilet of debt.

KogaSteelfang posted...

She's "in charge" of the finances to make it easier on him,

Doesn't appear to be working.

Don't give them money, it's your money.

myghostisdead posted...

It is hard to tell family and friends no and many of the ones who realize that will constantly prey upon your kindness. I am sorry you are going through this. Practice no. Also, your brother needs to take back a little more control of his life but if you try to talk to him about it or might make both him and her mad. It is a touchy situation.

I get lots of practice saying no with my dad. My brother has just never asked for anything before. I knew it was a massive blow to his pride to ask, so I decided to help. I just had no idea the shape they were truly in until yesterday.

Far-Queue posted...

Don't give them any more money. Full stop.

I have a brother like this. He would lie and use his kids to guilt me into giving him money. It will never end unless you end it. You gotta just cut them off and let them fend for themselves.

Your brother his a grown man and should be able to fend for himself. He needs to get control of the finances away from his spouse and either work out a budget with her and oversee the spending, or cut her out of budgeting responsibilities all together if she is unable or unwilling to cooperate and control her spending. Give your brother this advice and be done with it. You're not responsible for their situation and you shouldn't be made to feel like a bad relative or feel guilty for refusing to flush your hard-earned money down their toilet of debt.

Trust me, we were all telling him to get her away from his accounts. I told him to open a chine account and have his pay deposited directly to that instead, and keep it locked out of her control. At least until he gets things caught up and under control.

At the rate they're going, he's afraid they'll lose their house because he can't afford the $700.

But yeah, after this, I'm not giving them a dime unless it's a true emergency or he gets things under control.

jsb0714 posted...

Doesn't appear to be working.

She claims it saves him the trouble of actually have to make the payments himself, since she values his time.

Despite the fact that she openly admitted this is what she'd do before they got married. She said she only liked him because he'd spend money on her, and if she could convince him to marry her that she'd be set with a free income and no responsibilities. He SOMEHOW did not see that enormous red flag even though I kept reminding him.

shadowsword87 posted...

Don't give them money, it's your money.

It was a hard choice. I really wanted to help, but I was not comfortable giving the 2,500 they wanted. I'm glad now that I offered less.

Should have given him $699.

at some point you just need to realize they have money issues, but that isn't your fault and they do not need your help.

argonautweakend posted...

at some point you just need to realize they have money issues, but that isn't your fault and they do not need your help.

I've got that now. I just thought things were a little tight for them, not that I was just tossing it into a black hole.

Honestly I would confront them because this is stupid.

argonautweakend posted...

Honestly I would confront them because this is stupid.

I'm sure the money is already gone, either deposited and waiting to be spent, or immediately used to pay up their lapsed bills. Or I suppose, to get her whatever she wants with it.

I'm trying to convince dad to keep the car. He seems to agree that we should. Guess we'll see. All I know is that mom wasn't happy last night when she learned he gave away her car.

"he seems to agree that we should"

uhh yeah? you never gave them permission to take the car. They literally stole it.

This isn't uncommon, really...and there's only one way this progresses. Mooches will ask for more and more until the moochie ends it or is broke themselves. You simply have to say "no more". I know it's far easier said than done with family, but it's the truth.

Some separation would make it far easier...

KogaSteelfang posted...

She's trying to get approved for disability income, as she does have a degenerative disease(bone I think, not 100% certain). She's been out of work for over a year, but the doctors are saying she's still in a good health and should be able to work. Especially since she's gone to college for things that can be remotely, and should be able to work from home.

If the doctors aren't even willing to say she's disabled, the government sure as hell isn't gonna give her benefits for it. She's just lazy and entitled.

Instead, my brother works 40 hours a week, has to put in 40 hours over time a month, and find about 60 hours of time to door dash just to come close to earning enough to cover her spending.

He was here yesterday, and said they have a $700 house payment, water/electricity, and internet bills. Despite earning over $5,000 a month working like he does they still can't afford to pay their bills because of her spending.

She's "in charge" of the finances to make it easier on him, supposedly. Yet, he's locked out of his own accounts and she refuses to let him see where the money goes.

She's the problem, and the ONLY problem. $700 a month on housing and he makes $5000, that's way more than enough. He should have never let her control the spending and bank accounts, any primary earner that does this is a a moron, especially when the spouse is a frivolous spender.
He needs to quit door dashing, cut back his overtime hours, and use literally 1/10 of that freed up time to take control of the finances. Working himself to the bone so then he has no time to manage the finances, then she blows all the money and he has to work ever harder, is a perpetual cycle of agony that never ends.
If he can't get back into his bank account (seriously, WTF?), he needs to open a new account in his name only and switch his paycheck deposits to it. Hell, he should have his own account regardless and the joint should be only for shared/living expenses. He really needs to throw out the whole woman and get a divorce, but I'm guessing he won't do that.

They've been asking for us to give the $2,500 for a new car for her. Mom and dad couldn't get that kind of money, cousin refused, so I offered them $1,500 instead. My brother came and picked it up yesterday. To make things easier on him, dad offered to let him use my mom's car. So last night mom got a message from them thanking for giving them the car for free(which wasn't the intention, but apparently was worded badly enough that took it that way).

So, I asked the obvious "If they're taking the car, do I get my money back?" Because at this point it totally sounds like giving them money is the same as burning it, and is already agreed before we knew the situation they were in... Nope! They're keeping the money too.

Don't give them any money! You're right, it's a black hole, and you'll never get the money back. You're just enabling her. And you're the one unemployed now. You need the money more.

Idk, I guess I just never expected to be taken advantage of by him. He's always been the financially responsible one and would never let himself get in over his head. So when they couldn't afford a car, I just figured things were a little tight and I could help them out.

He needs a fucking intervention. I'm serious. He clearly is not financially responsible, letting her control it.

He said he tells her when they buy dinner "This cost me an hour of my life." To try and demonstrate that he works for the money she spends... but he didn't seem to grasp that he took an entire month paycheck from me. >_>

And she apparently doesn't care. That's the point at which anyone w/ self respect would walk. I think I'm starting to understand why you stayed at that job so long. Your whole life you've been surrounded by abuse and just accepted that as "normal". And yes, this is financial abuse.

Dont give your dad anything, if Im remembering correctly hes just a bad guy.

As far as your brother, I wouldnt say you need to ask for the money back if that isnt important to you, but you should definitely confront him about his behavior and make it clear to him that he burned you.

argonautweakend posted...

"he seems to agree that we should"

uhh yeah? you never gave them permission to take the car. They literally stole it.

For that matter, your brother/SiL would have no legal recourse if your parents just took their car right out of the driveway if they haven't formally transferred ownership. A misinterpreted text isn't going to hold up to any sort of scrutiny when the ownership paperwork is all still with your parents.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE, do not give away your car. Assuming it's actually your car with your name on the title, it's yours and you owe it to no one. If you give up your car, you essentially gave them money and a car. You never should've given them a dime in the first place. He's making over 5 grand a month, which should easily support a two person household.

All you've done, is enable her to continue to fleece your brother for a longer amount of time. Let them fail, let them struggle. It might seem harsh, but they're not gonna change if people around them prop them up and let them get away with this shit.

Basically, quit giving out money, especially when your income seems to currently be 0 and do not give up your car. I feel like you've gotten slightly better over time with this, but you really do need to get away from your family for a while.

Also that^

Ok, so apparently at some point yesterday dad did in fact offer to give them the car. Neither mom or myself knew of this.

None of these vehicles are in my name, they're all in mom's name. So her using it to get to work and back is fine, I just didn't expect to immediately lose access to a vehicle this weekend.

Anyway, dad's thinking was that they'd take the car and give the money back and he could use it to buy that 1,200 truck he wants from his friend. In his mind he was doing me a favor because I'd save 300 that way and we'd all still have a vehicle. The wrench was when they decided to keep the money too and messed up his plan.

Idk... It's looking more and more like I've been reverted to my previous role in the family as just a bank account they could withdraw from.

Don't worry, I'm not falling back into that role easily. Brother is getting nothing else from me, dad isn't getting anything either.

Anyway, sucks it had to happen this weekend. As if it wasn't stressful enough after quitting my job, it's also my Sister in Law's birthday today(so I'm sure my money went to a nice dinner and probably an expensive gift) and tomorrow is mom's birthday. Now mom is sad and upset and I'm afraid to spend too much money getting her a gift to cheer her up. >_>

Ultimatum: the car or the money.

They shouldn't be allowed to have both with no recourse.

Yeah I am not letting anyone borrow money anymore.

80% of the time they never pay me back, and it's just going to make me dislike them. All they get from me is advice.

My personal philosophy is to never loan people money unless I'm okay never getting it back. It's generally worked pretty well.

Besides, I've never asked anyone for money period. Buy a new car? Like, parasocial much?

adjl posted...

My personal philosophy is to never loan people money unless I'm okay never getting it back. It's generally worked pretty well.

This is my view too. I learned the hard way from my dad.

I was ok giving the money, I knew I likely wouldn't get it back. That's why I didn't give them the amount they wanted. I just also got blindsided by us also losing a car in the process.

Also, the real kicker is that they don't even need another vehicle. She just wants one. The only place she ever goes is to her mom's house. She's currently using her mom's extra car anyway.

It's just frustrating all around.

Yeah, having exacerbating factors like that come out of the blue does throw a wrench into the issue.

I don't even understand why you would give them money. If bitch sits around all day on a computer using up his money and he doesn't know where it's going it's because she is using it on other dudes while he works.

My mom tried to pull the "I need money for X, I need money for Y" crap with me many many years ago and eventually I broke off all contact with her and told her that the only way I would consider talking to her again was if she told me in writing she would never ask for money from me again. It took almost a year of no contact but she eventually agreed.

After that our relationship was on pretty decent terms (it was never as good as it used to be honestly) up until she passed away.

dragon504 posted...

Assuming it's actually your car with your name on the title, it's yours and you owe it to no one. If you give up your car, you essentially gave them money and a car.

Another issue to keep in mind is, if someone else has your car and it's still legally in your ownership, you're also legally responsible for it. And for everything they do with it. Parking tickets? Those are getting issued in your name. Speeding tickets by traffic camera? Toll violations? You'll be getting those fines as well. They hit a run somebody's kid? You're the one the cops will be coming after.

If the car in question is in Koga's mom's name, she's the one who's going to get legal-fucked when they do something irresponsible with it. And considering they sound irresponsible as fuck, it's probably only a matter of time before she's utterly screwed.

If I were in this scenario, I'd call the cops and report the car stolen.

In my family, if you have money, you'd better hide it. They will literally rob you for it. I'm owed 30k but whenever I ask for it I get told "financial difficulties". When I tell them what to do to get out of financial difficulty, I get told it is none of my business.

adjl posted...

My personal philosophy is to never loan people money unless I'm okay never getting it back. It's generally worked pretty well.

Yeah that doesn't fly with me. Just recently ended a friendship with someone who owed me $1,000. It would be one thing if she just wasn't able to pay it back, but she was working and was flaunting all her art she bought on social media. Like, why would you not pay someone back if you are fully capable of doing so? Whenever I owed money I always made sure it was paid back. I had a friend who owed ME damn near over $1,000 and he made sure every cent was paid back.

If you really couldn't be bothered to pay back what was so generously given to you, then you are not a true friend.

Also this whole topic is cringe. Stop letting people walk all over you dude. Honestly I'm embarrassed for you at this point. I don't know how you literally are capable of letting people treat you so badly. I literally can't fathom or process it in the slightest.

Jesus, some of you people just have absolutely no backbone, or common sense.

adjl posted...

My personal philosophy is to never loan people money unless I'm okay never getting it back. It's generally worked pretty well.

I see what you're saying but I would for sure lend cash to someone I know I can trust. I trust very few people though so that's not saying much. I'm lucky enough to have close family members who have never broke my trust.

ZayKayWill posted...

Honestly I'm embarrassed for you at this point. I don't know how you literally are capable of letting people treat you so badly.

Is he really treating me badly by accepting money that I offered him? He wanted quite a bit more, but I offered him what I thought was a more reasonable amount. He accepted it. Whether he uses it for a car or not is his decision now.

For once I don't think I'm the one being pathetic in a situation. And yeah, I'm upset(not angry) that he'd do this, but it sounds like he's in a fairly desperate financial situation so I can understand him doing us a little dirty to catch up. I don't like it, but I get it.

Also, that does mean I'm no longer going to be giving them money though.

you justifying the action is part of the problem. Your brother is a spineless cuck who would rather rob his own family than confront his wife about her spending

Mensis posted...

you justifying the action is part of the problem. Your brother is a spineless cuck who would rather rob his own family than confront his wife about her spending

He does confront her, sounds like they fight constantly over lots of different things. He just doesn't know how to make her cooperate. She simply won't. She either does things her way or makes his life even more miserable.

KogaSteelfang posted... He does confront her, sounds like they fight constantly over lots of different things. He just doesn't know how to make her cooperate. She simply won't.

I already posted the solution:

streamofthesky posted...

She's the problem, and the ONLY problem. $700 a month on housing and he makes $5000, that's way more than enough. He should have never let her control the spending and bank accounts, any primary earner that does this is a a moron, especially when the spouse is a frivolous spender.
He needs to quit door dashing, cut back his overtime hours, and use literally 1/10 of that freed up time to take control of the finances. Working himself to the bone so then he has no time to manage the finances, then she blows all the money and he has to work ever harder, is a perpetual cycle of agony that never ends.
If he can't get back into his bank account (seriously, WTF?), he needs to open a new account in his name only and switch his paycheck deposits to it. Hell, he should have his own account regardless and the joint should be only for shared/living expenses. He really needs to throw out the whole woman and get a divorce, but I'm guessing he won't do that.

It's a hell of a lot less complicated than you think.

She either does things her way or makes his life even more miserable.

And again:

And she apparently doesn't care. That's the point at which anyone w/ self respect would walk. I think I'm starting to understand why you stayed at that job so long. Your whole life you've been surrounded by abuse and just accepted that as "normal". And yes, this is financial abuse.

He should divorce. But I know he won't. So he should at least stop working himself to death and take control of his money.

streamofthesky posted...

It's a hell of a lot less complicated than you think.

I agree. That's exactly what I told him to do. I know he doesn't have much free time and wouldn't want her to know immediately. So I told him to use Chime, I know that ones super easy and can be done right in your phone. Told him to have his money direct deposit in that one and keep her away from it.

streamofthesky posted...

He should divorce. But I know he won't. So he should at least stop working himself to death and take control of his money.

I also agree with this.

shes either blowing it on phones or crypto not sure which

Mensis posted...

Ive been saying it for years. You need to get the fuck away from these people.

Yeah, this whole thing is just stupid. If somebody keeps falling into the same shit, they lose the right to complain about it.

KogaSteelfang posted...

Once I agreed to give the money to my brother a week ago dad has been hounding me for money too. First he said I could give him 2,500 since I wasn't giving that much to my brother. I refused. Then he said the least I could do is to give him $1,200 to buy his friends old used pick up. I refused. Then he asked for $150 to buy a lawnmower attachment. I never even responded to him. Then yesterday he told me to give him $250 for the same attachment, I was like "it was only $150 yesterday, what happened?" and he said he was going to put 100 on it but now I'll just be buying it straight up.

No good deed goes unpunished.

KogaSteelfang posted...

This is my view too. I learned the hard way from my dad.

I was ok giving the money, I knew I likely wouldn't get it back. That's why I didn't give them the amount they wanted. I just also got blindsided by us also losing a car in the process.

Also, the real kicker is that they don't even need another vehicle. She just wants one. The only place she ever goes is to her mom's house. She's currently using her mom's extra car anyway.

It's just frustrating all around.

If the car is in your mom's name then she can say no to everyone.

Revelation34 posted...

If the car is in your mom's name then she can say no to everyone.

She's very similar to me. She'd rather go without if it means helping someone else. Especially if it's him.

KogaSteelfang posted...

if it means helping someone else.

But that's the problem: this isn't helping. It's enabling a destructive lifestyle that is going to ruin...well, all of you.

ZayKayWill posted...

Yeah that doesn't fly with me. Just recently ended a friendship with someone who owed me $1,000. It would be one thing if she just wasn't able to pay it back, but she was working and was flaunting all her art she bought on social media. Like, why would you not pay someone back if you are fully capable of doing so? Whenever I owed money I always made sure it was paid back. I had a friend who owed ME damn near over $1,000 and he made sure every cent was paid back.

There's some nuance to it, yes, but it still works. If I genuinely don't value the amount I'm loaning out, then it doesn't really matter to me if they pay me back or not. If somebody's routinely taking advantage of that and not paying me back even though they could? Yeah, they're not getting any more money, because that's just disrespectful (and if they could pay me back, they axiomatically don't need me to loan them more). And similar to you, I make a point of settling my debts, mostly because I do value whatever money has been given to me and I want to treat it accordingly even if the other person wouldn't mind if I didn't. But I'm also not going to worry too much if somebody can't pay me back, because I loaned the money out under the presumption that they wouldn't.

KogaSteelfang posted...

Is he really treating me badly by accepting money that I offered him?

You offered it to him to help get a car. If he then got a car through another method, he should be returning it because the reason you gave it to him no longer applies. If he keeps it despite not needing it for the purpose you intended, he's just taking advantage of you.

My thought still stands: money or the car. Or actually car or nothing. You NEED that money. They don't because they aren't poor, they just mismanage their finances to insane levels.

I've never been in this situation with family, and with friends I've never lent more than maybe a couple hundred out, so I can't say i've ever loaned somebody 1,500, but I'd be madder than hell trying to get that money back.

wpot posted...

But that's the problem: this isn't helping. It's enabling a destructive lifestyle that is going to ruin...well, all of you.

If it keeps food on his table, his lights on, and helps him keep his house I'm ok with it as it is. I didn't figure I'd be getting this money back when I agreed to give it. Like I said though, I'm not giving him any more money after this. Fortunately my parents can't get much money, and I can now refuse due to not currently working.

adjl posted...

You offered it to him to help get a car. If he then got a car through another method, he should be returning it because the reason you gave it to him no longer applies. If he keeps it despite not needing it for the purpose you intended, he's just taking advantage of you.

I suppose so. I guess my mindset is that I gave it to help them out, and if he used it to help catch up his bills then it's still helping him.

Idk, I understand I'm naive and easily taken advantage of though. He's just never been the one doing it before now so maybe I'm just not seeing it the same way.

argonautweakend posted...

My thought still stands: money or the car. Or actually car or nothing. You NEED that money. They don't because they aren't poor, they just mismanage their finances to insane levels.

I've never been in this situation with family, and with friends I've never lent more than maybe a couple hundred out, so I can't say i've ever loaned somebody 1,500, but I'd be madder than hell trying to get that money back.

I guess it's the fact that I already assumed I'd never get it back that makes it easier to accept(aside from the fact that I've basically been raised to be taken advantage of). I just had no idea how badly she's mismanaged things. That was an eye opener, so after this it's no more money. My parents agree after hearing how things are.

I mean, I wish we were wealthy enough to be able fix it, but that's not an option. He's just going to have to claim control of his money, and I'd it costs him his spiteful, controlling, manipulative, selfish, short sighted wife, then so be it. He'd be better off.