Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 7 - The Mafia Strikes Back

(+) Yeah! (+)

Obellisk posted...

Yeah, I dunno...

I'm iffy on this, chris.

and if ulti is scum... scuse me, I mean, since ulti is scum, he knows one exists and would of course bring it up to attack lopen/arti (lopen made joke clearly linked to last game) Ulti took great offense and attacked the Scum Gladiator possibilities.

I am at peace with it. Worst case? He just had a bad game and we move on. We get s lot of info out of this lynch and a lot of angles to examine. It's extremely hard to go flawless so even if this turns sour we didn't have a lot of claims today and we get to discuss Kirby tomorrow with new information.

Chaeix posted...

I agree that there are asterisks all over the gladiate and I'm not sure what to do with them.

Kirby, what changed in your opinion of changmas, if anything? You had been defending him earlier in this topic up until Chris went on the attack. What made you decide that Arti simply wasn't worth lynching today? And along with Sultan I'm wondering why gladiate the person with the most votes?

From post #255 you state "My gut does not feel good about lynching chang after his defense" and then slowly work your way into being a little bit suspicious. You also stated that you prefer to lynch the vanilla/vanilla over the vanilla/flavor cop which is fair. But you also state directly "Though I personally think we get more info out of an Arti flip than a chang flip."

While you stated the logic that you just wanted to get it out of the way and trust Chris' intuition, and I get that, there are a lot of questions.

Why I think this is a bus btw. Jc with another good post.

Also 'why didn't you use it earlier' as a concern for gladiator is literally a scum quote from the scum team last game lmao

Oh Kirby. Sweet boy Kirby

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am at peace with it. Worst case? He just had a bad game and we move on. We get s lot of info out of this lynch and a lot of angles to examine. It's extremely hard to go flawless so even if this turns sour we didn't have a lot of claims today and we get to discuss Kirby tomorrow with new information.

went flawless last game. I mean, I did..sorta

masterplum posted...

Like it was apparent that Chang was going to die anyways. Why now?

I mean, do you have a better use for gladiator?
I agree with Chris's flavor from last game. Gladiator is a stupid role for town. It's a significantly more volatile vig, and I don't like having power that has a chance to backfire this poorly.

On another note, Chris, if chang flips scum, would you still think that I'm scum?

To answer JC's question, my opinion of chang hasn't really changed. I see the arguments, but I just have a nagging feeling lynching chang was a mistake and Arti just got away for free. But I also don't trust my own reads this game.

If I'm being honest, there was a bit of selfish, calculated motivation behind it. Not just theatrics. The fact of the matter is that I wanted to use my gladiator powers earlier sooner than later. I might not have considered it if Arti was the sole lynch today, as resetting the votals like that would be fruitless and stupid. With chang on the table, well, crazy me figured now was a better time than ever to use it when there's a clear dichotomy. Again, I didn't think anyone would believe me for holding on to gladiator late into the game and think it was just a BS safe-claim.

Frankly, my gut would've chosen Arti as the gladiator pick. But going against Chris's hard push on chang would've been extremely reckless if flipped Arti town. Like, that would've been a mortifyingly huge fuck-up if I singlehandedly pulled the lynch off of possible scum just to kill a townie. And, I mean, that's not different from a possible outcome here, but Chris thinks Arti might not be scum. He's seeing something that I'm clearly not. On the flip-side, it would be one hell of an awesome play if Arti flipped scum. But I'm not gonna gamble with that when the consequence is forcing a town lynch on somebody.

I'm trusting Chris's intuition here. That's really all there is to it. I recognize this is a very reckless play. And I am willing to accept the full consequences of it.

Kirby321 posted...

Frankly, my gut would've chosen Arti as the gladiator pick. But going against Chris's hard push on chang would've been extremely reckless if flipped Arti town. Like, that would've been a mortifyingly huge fuck-up if I singlehandedly pulled the lynch off of possible scum just to kill a townie. And, I mean, that's not different from a possible outcome here, but Chris thinks Arti might not be scum. He's seeing something that I'm clearly not. On the flip-side, it would be one hell of an awesome play if Arti flipped scum. But I'm not gonna gamble with that when the consequence is forcing a town lynch on somebody.

wow this is a rollercoaster of a paragraph

Its so nakedly open that I have to commend it.

I sincerely love this game from the bottom of my heart.

For future reference, what is the best way to use town-sided Gladiator? Looking back, I see Plum mentioning it as a use case for when the Gladiator in question is about to get lynched. I feel like that doesn't make a difference because it doesn't magically make you town. It just proves that you can, indeed, gladiate, but as quite a few people pointed out, scum gladiator exists.

Like, seriously, I don't get this role and how it's supposed to be remotely useful for town, at all.

Kirby321 posted...

For future reference, what is the best way to use town-sided Gladiator? Looking back, I see Plum mentioning it as a use case for when the Gladiator in question is about to get lynched. I feel like that doesn't make a difference because it doesn't magically make you town. It just proves that you can, indeed, gladiate, but as quite a few people pointed out, scum gladiator exists.

Like, seriously, I don't get this role and how it's supposed to be remotely useful for town, at all.

Town is making a choice but you want it to be your choice, tbh.

Never use it because it's a stupid anti town role and claim vanilla.

Leafeon13N posted...

Town is making a choice but you want it to be your choice, tbh.

But if you are being more liberal with what is pro town, this

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Never use it because it's a stupid anti town role and claim vanilla.

Yeah, that's fair. Ngl I was taken aback by you calling me scum for the gladiate, but with that reasoning, it makes sense. I really can't argue with that since we both agree Gladiator is a dumb role.

I don't know if you got to see my rant about how stupid for town gladiator is after my game. I just ranted about it.

Nah claiming Gladiator is always the thing to do IMO
Lying about your role should never be accepted as the optimal play.
Then again I dont dislike Gladiators as much (Maybe because I was the very first one on board8)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't know if you got to see my rant about how stupid for town gladiator is after my game. I just ranted about it.

That was the in-flavor rant when Plum was lynched last game, right? Or was there another rant I missed?

Kirby321 posted...

That was the in-flavor rant when Plum was lynched last game, right? Or was there another rant I missed?

Might have been in one of the dead chats too.

(So I have suspicion that you didn't at least ask before doing this when I just ranted about it)

adding several gladiators to my next mafia game now

Hbthebattle posted...

adding several gladiators to my next mafia game now

Remind me not to sign up CONFIRMED

Better yet, just make everyone a gladiator

DoomTheGyarados posted...

(So I have suspicion that you didn't at least ask before doing this when I just ranted about it)

I did ask. Indirectly, but I did ask. But I also didn't want to outright reveal my role. Like I said before, this post was a cry for help about the right call to make, but I was clearly too subtle about it and it went largely ignored.

Kirby321 posted...

I'm torn on where to put my vote. My gut does not feel good about lynching chang after his defense, but I also haven't put in the effort to justify a lynch on Arti outside of what happened in Day 3.

Maybe taking a closer look at Lopen's posts might help somewhat? Not that I remember much aside from the gladiator joke claim. It's kinda funny that some of us actually believed it as truth instead of a joke, too. Does anyone even like gladiator as a role? What's it even good for as a townie? Feels like a day vig that has potential to backfire way worse than a regular night vig. What a terrible role.

I'm crazy, but not crazy to just ramble about Lopen's joke claim without a reason.

(Chris posted, this phone sucks at quotes and formatting)
"Oh Kirby. Sweet boy Kirby"

Popping in to say that's my phrase and I'll sue. Unless you're Swirlix or Alcremie or something.

Arti posted...

Better yet, just make everyone a gladiator

Was about to make the same joke.

Gladiator does feel like a 'I ran out of ideas' role to add tho.

Why not reveal your role the day you wanted to use it. What harm could have been done?

Did I miss Kirbys flavor?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Did I miss Kirbys flavor?

no

Speaking of flavor Arti what did you say your star wars flavor was again? You're here so I figure it's easier to ask than look.

It's irrelevant to anything but I just want the pun.

I think Kirby needs to Flavor claim.

Chaeix posted...

Speaking of flavor Arti what did you say your star wars flavor was again? You're here so I figure it's easier to ask than look.

It's irrelevant to anything but I just want the pun.

Dexter Jettser

Well if Sultan wants him

Please flavor claim

##Vote:Kirby

Their is so much I dont like about this Gladiator.
1. Chang was already dead to rights.
2. Kirby didnt claim his flavor for this Gladiator
3. I dont think it was nessisary to do today.

I will say I would find it fucking hilarious if messed up if we just killed Kirby here super randomly.

This day has me spinning

Is it possible to learn these votals?
[6] Chang - Hb, Chris, Abacus, Death, Arti, (Kirby), Isquen, (Ulti)
[1] No Lynch - (Arti), Chang
[1] Kirby - Sultan

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to reach majority. Day ends at 7pm Eastern, in roughly 31 minutes.

htaeD posted...

This day has me spinning

Same. Also it may be my insomnia

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Why not reveal your role the day you wanted to use it. What harm could have been done?

Because if there was a good reason not to use it today, then why should I claim and give scum info?

I made that post because I wasn't sure if using it today was even the best idea. I thought it was, due to the paranoia I mentioned earlier about holding on to it for too long and this being the best opportunity to do minimal damage to town in case it backfires, but I wasn't totally convinced I was making the right choice. I hinted at this earlier when I said I'd be the "final arbiter" of who dies between chang and Arti.

Kirby321 posted...

... I dunno. My gut says danger on lynching chang, but my head says it's not unreasonable to lynch him, though my heart wants to believe he's town. Though I've come to a decision that we are voting chang or Arti one way or the other. I'm not letting the votes be split like this, but I hope I'm making the right call here.

By that point, seeing that there was no response to my question (which, in hindsight, was a stupid gambit to begin with and I was foolish to believe someone would answer it as a legitimate question), I had already committed to using my gladiator. But I hesitated on pulling the trigger. I wanted to use it on Arti, but I didn't have the conviction to believe it was the right call versus chang, especially when it was in direct opposition to your argument at the time. So I discussed the lynch a bit and try to come to a conclusion. But I think your last post before I used my gladiate broke me a little. It was clear we weren't seeing eye-to-eye on the matter, so I decided to just put my faith in your read and hope for the best. I still believe Arti's lynch gives us more than chang's, but perhaps my argument was flawed to begin with.

You did say that.

Well let's see what chang flips and if my psychic powers prevail once more

Sultan, if Kirby is scum, Chang is almost certainly scum too.

He isn't going to grab the spotlight in order to mislynch town that was already heading towards mislynch

I will say that a lot of this I can chalk up to Kirby just not knowing Gladiator roles.
Its really a power that you can hold on for as long as you like, or in case someone gets counterclaimed or is found out by townpower.

The only real downside is if Kirby is some sort of gladiator variant that gets bonuses if he wins.

Hmm

There was one of those in final fantasy mafia wasn't there

masterplum posted...

The only real downside is if Kirby is some sort of gladiator variant that gets bonuses if he wins.

Hmm

There was one of those in final fantasy mafia wasn't there

Independent zenos

First off, this is the post I was referencing when I addressed Death earlier about my flavor:

Kirby321 posted...

Wait, why are we killing chang again? I see Sbell voted him early on in the day for post 63, where chang says he would be first-time scum if he were scum in this game. Amusing, but the vote was also very early on in the day, so I'll give that a pass.

But Chris and Lopen voting for him because... chang was confused about the flavor? Yeah, I agree with Sultan, that's ridiculous. I agree with Sultan's theory about how the flavor might be split just because my own flavor feels like it shouldn't be town-aligned, though it's interesting to note that the only person to claim a Pokmon flavor (as per Ben's trap post) was Red.
... But this flavor discussion is pointless.

I am Anakin Skywalker.
Specifically the prequels version. Han mentioned participating in the colosseum on Geonosis as the flavor, so I presume the inspiration is Attack of the Clones.

htaeD posted...

I will say that a lot of this I can chalk up to Kirby just not knowing Gladiator roles.
Its really a power that you can hold on for as long as you like, or in case someone gets counterclaimed or is found out by townpower.

I think "I'm going to ignore my gut and logic and just blindly trust Chris" is largely independent of him not knowing how to gladiate fwiw

A Rey claim and now an anakin claim huh

I wrote up a post voting Kirby, but I honestly can't see a way kirby is scum and Chang is town.

Its probably most pragmatic to just stay the course

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