Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 10 - Return of the DAY

(+) Yeah! (+)

But we will figure this all out another day. No need to really over exert today.

so we just hammer and move along or does the thought of 40 hours of discussion tickle your fancy?

...Ulti gets to live another day.

Kirby happens to be one my list too hmm maybe i am on to something here.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Kirby happens to be one my list too hmm maybe i am on to something here.

I was eyeing that !?!?! Tier by isquen and then that was an epic watch. But nothing to do about it today.

Sbell I am fine with that but I think Lea hasn't checked in.

Like, I find it hard to believe the scum team thought it was a good idea to come in with a flavor scan on me.

Obellisk posted...

Like, I find it hard to believe the scum team thought it was a good idea to come in with a flavor scan on me.

Sheevee palpatine works in mysterious ways.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Sheevee palpatine works in mysterious ways.

so does Count Mewku

I can picture Ultis message in the scum chat now "I wouldn't do that, but it's your role, I'm not going to tell you what to do"

Obellisk posted...

so does Count Mewku

I can picture Ultis message in the scum chat now "I wouldn't do that, but it's your role, I'm not going to tell you what to do"

Count mewku has increased equity with sheevee Palpatine being a thing.

I like to think he could be General Grievee but that's probably more of a stretch

Oh that's great too actually.

Also red being roleblocked and Kirby not and Kirby going to red last night is very odd. No point discussing it today but those interactions are just strange at first blush.

Why would scum ever block red. If he is wrong he dies. Over flavor scanner and Kirby. Something is weird here. It doesn't change today but this is not what I expected lol

Chaeix posted...

I like to think he could be General Grievee but that's probably more of a stretch

General evee

Grievous is where my thought went, yeah

Okay well I blame Google for reminding me of palps's first name.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Okay well I blame Google for reminding me of palps's first name.

Noo that makes sense too

I was going back and looking at early game Ulti because I have nothing better to do and I had forgotten why I thought if Arti flipped scum it made Ulti more likely to be town. Now that Arti's flipped town, obviously that's somewhat moot in any case and Ulti is removed from my town list. Anyways something struck me as very odd.

He goes from being willing to protect Ben to just suddenly turning on him?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ben did you or Sheep claim?

Im willing to protect you here but I need an assist.

UltimaterializerX posted...

To be fair, Padme is like a perfect scum vanilla claim.

##Vote: Ben

I want this on record since Sheep is settled.

There were a grand total of 0 posts explaining this shift.

Also, Ulti engaged with Chris but seemingly ignored Chris' direct request to remind him of his vibe check on Sheep.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I've played my role badly on purpose to avoid shots and roleblocks

I want it on record how much I dislike this post from today. Why claim a town power in the first place if you want to avoid shots? What role can you 'play badly' to avoid scum actions? Are you saying that you're playing badly generally or that you specifically played your role badly? There's a major difference between the two.

I was suspicious of Ulti back on D2 and agreed with SBell's analysis of the comparison with FE Mafia and I am again back to that camp.

Is it rolefishing when you volunteered to claim?

I don't want your claim today, mind you.

Yes

UltimaterializerX posted...

If I actually thought you were scum I would bury you for all that blatant rolefishing. That is a terrible post, Justin.

Fwiw I wasn't expecting you to actually indulge me, I'm just asking the questions because if/when you claim I expect them to be answered.

Also I will say remembering how scum kept mixing up corrik and ulti on top of isquen voting ulti for claiming mewtwo at the same time as that Miller claim does lower ulti's scum equity quite a lot for me.

red13n posted...

red being cryptic with his scans better not trust him lol because red has never shown that he knows exactly how to play his roles to maximum ability before. Nope nope nope.

You either are scum or town with his head too far up his own ego.

Bro, you are one to talk. Give us your scans instead of playing games right now. If you're trying to insist that Chris is scum, you're presenting an extremely poor case when your own behavior is anti-town. Why are you withholding information from us when it could help us avoid a mislynch or mis-scan?

I thought you were town when I scanned you last night, but now I wish I scanned someone else (not that it mattered since I got redirected anyway somehow).

UltimaterializerX posted...

I forget which one lowering scum equity means

More town.

Kirby321 posted...

Bro, you are one to talk. Give us your scans instead of playing games right now. If you're trying to insist that Chris is scum, you're presenting an extremely poor case when your own behavior is anti-town. Why are you withholding information from us when it could help us avoid a mislynch or mis-scan?

I thought you were town when I scanned you last night, but now I wish I scanned someone else (not that it mattered since I got redirected anyway somehow).

That's not red calling me scum that's red calling me an idiot.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I forget which one lowering scum equity means

I guess that depends on if you think those things cited are good for you or bad for you.

damn it chris. you weren't supposed to give him the answer

Idk sbell day 4 I posted how isquen and ulti were paired together a few times it would be strange to me if both were scum but I was feeling good about 1. I suppose this will resolve in the next couple of days.

Obellisk posted...

damn it chris. you weren't supposed to give him the answer

Classic me

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Okay well hider... can't die directly. So thinking they would die is odd

Then Kirby walks in here with saying he wanted to watch red... which is uhh

Am I misunderstanding how Hider works? I thought if someone tried to kill Red, they'd still show up as a visitor to Red. So if I saw someone visit Red, and he targeted someone else who happened to die, I would know that the person who visited Red was actually the killer who ended up killing Red's target instead of him.

I mean, if you want my full thought process, here's what I sent Han along with my night action:

"For the dead town chat's entertainment, here's my thought process on my choice of target: WIFOM

First, this is assuming my choice even matters since I'm 90% sure I'm just gonna get roleblocked anyway if I'm not outright killed. Death and Hb are the obvious choices... but the Mafia know that. Probably. And if they can't roleblock me for any reason, they're probably afraid of me catching them in the act of killing (though I'm 90% sure there's a Dark Side Greninja anyway but let's just pretend that possibility [doesn't] exists). Choosing Chris again might not be a bad choice here, really, but if Mafia haven't killed him yet on Star Wars night, there's probably a reason for him to be alive right now.

So assuming the "obvious" targets aren't the true targets, then it'll probably be someone who is likely town but unclaimed. I was thinking Sultan originally, but he's claimed and not a particularly strong role. No point killing him. Sbell and Scare, however, are both unclaimed. Between the two, Scare is the easier to blame, so Sbell is likely the one to be killed here. And he was gonna be my original target before I considered another possibility...

Choosing Red would be a pretty funny choice. Or, well, it might actually be not a bad tactic. If scum target him, and Red truly can't hide behind scum, then that would leave a kill that would be untraceable. Because Red would've chosen it, not scum. So if I can catch somebody visiting Red, that might actually provide a lot of curious information in the wake of someone's death.

Perhaps I'm putting too much stock into Red's claim, since he could very well be lying scum with how much info he's withholding. But no matter what I do, any choice I make will be a gamble. And this is a gamble that will pay off very well if all goes well.
(Assuming no Greninjas)"

Tbf I would have watched hb last night so I guess we both would have been wrong but when I am less tired I will discuss this with you.

I think hb was the obvious watch as the one with power and death was the subversive choice since we didn't know if his pokemon had power or not.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Idk sbell day 4 I posted how isquen and ulti were paired together a few times it would be strange to me if both were scum but I was feeling good about 1. I suppose this will resolve in the next couple of days.

I have difficulty, this game, seeing it the other way. I got the read, the read is good. The deep dive proved valid, His responses to me and lack there of all point to the same thing

then again, maybe I'm wrong...

Obellisk posted...

I have difficulty, this game, seeing it the other way. I got the read, the read is good. The deep dive proved valid, His responses to me and lack there of all point to the same thing

then again, maybe I'm wrong...

Maybe i am wrong too. I have a soft spot for ulti who has largely played nice. I know that is hard for him. I liked your deep dive quite a bit and found it compelling. Ulti has never strayed far from my poe partially due to that compelling work.

Removing the soon to be dead isquen leaves me with 3 scum and 11 players. Hb and Sultan are both in the clear. Scare and sbell contains 0 to 1 scum.

So let's map this

2 to 3 scum in

Red
Ulti
Jc
Mzero
Lea
Kirby

0 to 1 scum in

Sbell
Scare

Of the first six three are claimed and we know half the flavor of another. This is also a very basic thought about the game without looking and thinking over pairings or what future claims might help to clarify.

Kirby should be in the clear tbh the watch decision just confuses me and maybe I am being mean. I think even at a brief thought he has way too much going for him to realistically be scum.

Hb was my initial first choice, yeah. But then I was thinking, "Why on Earth would scum block the Flavor Cop over the Watcher?" Turns out they should've since Isquen got busted for lying.

But even before then, I admittedly was trying to bait scum into thinking Death was the person I saw visiting you. Obviously, he flipped Vanilla for Pokmon side, so I was lying. When Death revealed he was Cop, I would've backed off, but I figured he was gonna die anyway so I said something like "I'm afraid that you're Cop, because I think I know what your Pokmon role is" or something stupid like that.

Idk, I'm trying to play 5D chess and getting myself confused, clearly. The thought of being roleblocked at the time didn't cross my mind as Death rightfully called out that I should've watched him or Hb. It was only toward the end of the day that I was like, "If Hb gets roleblocked, I should watch him to catch the roleblocker... wait, why wouldn't they just roleblock me instead?"

But yeah, I'm assuming the JC scan wasn't a mistake from Han. Somehow I got redirected, but y'all brought up good points earlier today. Ben was the Pokmon side Redirector, right? Wtf did scum do to make me target JC instead?

On the topic of Isquen, though, Eevee as Miller is lol
I could buy Eevee as Back-Up, but as Miller? That just doesn't make any sense.
Though it is rather odd he lied about his flavor after both Flavor Cops claimed. Isquen hid a softclaim for Lando in one of his posts or something like that. Was that before or after Hb claimed Flavor Cop? Strikes me as scum trying to build up credibility for his claim well in advance but didn't realize there were Flavor Cops. But at the same time, virtually nobody would've figured out the Lando hint. Would've been far safer to claim your actual flavor. These actions don't make any sense to me, though I'm definitely not opposed to an Isquen lynch here. Something just seems... off, though.
(Ironic coming from me, the dude who pushed Arti hard because his Flavor Cop claim didn't make sense even though it made even less sense that he claimed in response to Hb)

With regard to Isquen, though, since we don't expect anyone to claim, I suppose I should still be silent about who visited Chris N2? I admit I'm starting to be weary of this person now and I'm not so sure the visit to Chris was well-intentioned, but if there's a possibility they're town-aligned, perhaps it's best to stay silent. If I end up dead, this person knows they visited Chris. So they'll claim eventually, I would imagine, and if two people claim to visit Chris N2, one of them is obviously lying.

... Then again, I did get redirected. On B8, do all power roles get confirmation of who they targeted, even if they're not scanners? Like, does doc typically get confirmation of like "you successfully protected [player] tonight"? It might be possible that the person who visited Chris didn't realize they visited him. Hm...

Let's quick sort

Kirby town for the sake of simplicity
Red town cause sure why do all the claim stuff
Ulti town because why partner with your scum bud
Lea scum because that role is rolecop and a little busted

Jc ??? Because he hasn't moved the needle much
Mzero ??? Because sure he had isquen right and sure it is very strange if Ben and Sheep pocketed their own bud early but its like ehhh overall

This sorting leaves me uninspired. It just feels like I have made a bad assumption in that top group lol

To clarify with that whole "baiting scum into targeting Death", I intended to watch Death. Until I changed my mind, like, five million times. I think I went from Death -> Hb -> Sbell -> Sultan (before I remembered his roles) -> Red.

I'd still like to hear who Red targeted N2 and N4. But if I think my crackpot theory about Red's role is correct, perhaps I can understand why he's unwilling to share the info of who he targeted. But if my theory is correct, that can easily mess with town roles, so it'd be better to tell us his night action targets than to hide them.

Oh. I wonder if isquen is scum pokemon backup and that explains the redirection of Kirby. That could check out.

Anyway you should not say who visited me n2. We should not give away any information today.

Any thoughts on why scum forced me to target JC?

I mean this is clearly WIFOM territory, but I think the intent was for me to out other roles who might've visited JC. So perhaps scum deliberately avoided targeting him in order to get ideas of how many other power roles there were besides the claimed ones. But, like, was JC actually on anyone's radar for night actions? It's so random. Perhaps they chose JC because he's scum and they couldn't target their own teammates, thus leading me to potentially reveal town power?

Idk, I guess I'm just annoyed that there's a scum power in the game that can pretty much make me useless until they die.

Kirby321 posted...

Any thoughts on why scum forced me to target JC?

I mean this is clearly WIFOM territory, but I think the intent was for me to out other roles who might've visited JC. So perhaps scum deliberately avoided targeting him in order to get ideas of how many other power roles there were besides the claimed ones. But, like, was JC actually on anyone's radar for night actions? It's so random. Perhaps they chose JC because he's scum and they couldn't target their own teammates, thus leading me to potentially reveal town power?

Idk, I guess I'm just annoyed that there's a scum power in the game that can pretty much make me useless until they die.

They weren't targeting jc and anyone who they think would (hb) wouldn't be useful information. Red might have in theory but he was apparently blocked.

I...dont have a good working theory for these night actions right now.

If I counted right, we are currently at -3 from hammering Isquen (with votes from Hb, Sultan, Mzero, Ulti, in that order). I think it's okay for me to vote without risking an accidental hammer, but the day has just begun. There's no rush in placing a vote yet.

Chris, you mentioned yesterday that no matter what Arti flips, Lea is still likely scum. You don't have to do this now (it's getting late and I'm also kinda tired), but when you get a chance, could you recap on your points that led you to this conclusion? I was so sure that Arti was scum that I really thought Lea was trying to protect him for some powerful scum role. But Arti flipped town, so my foundation of that argument has been shook a bit.

Her role is still absurd, especially alongside three scanners on the Pokmon side. So given the lens that she's still scum because of her role claim, perhaps she deliberately went against the majority and defended Arti just to look nice when he flipped town?

Short and sweet when you are scum it is nice to be able to be genuine. Basically that's not the reason I think she is scum but it doesn't give her much credit as I can see the scum angle.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Okay well hider... can't die directly. So thinking they would die is odd

Then Kirby walks in here with saying he wanted to watch red... which is uhh

Wait did I miss something? Isn't red like reverse hider where if he dies the person he target dies instead?

not that it makes sense for scum to shoot red either way though

wait now I think I read your post wrong

So, I've vanished for a while for good reason, but if, say, my SW flavor IS Sheev, would you believe that I'm a third party survivor/backup survivor - that does scan evil, yes, with the caveat I only get the pick of that day's deaths when I activate it? I had to look up the name and I'm like "...I'm screwed, aren't I." I was provided with a safelist for a few names, which I found curious until I actually looked up who Sheev *was.*

I had a feeling I was going to be scanned after the Landorus claim and the flavor cops made themselves known, so I grabbed flavor cop, and scanned on someone I already townread to suck up to. I also had claimed Miller because I saw Red do it in prior game and nobody batted an eye after the initial outrage.

And before you even try to counterargue that: no, I could not turn into the poisoner and off someone, or Chris would've been dead from basic pattern recognition from prior games. First off, I didn't know I was going to get backup, and second off, it's also why I went so much harder on Arti day 4 - and thank you for lynching him, by the way.

Y'all are just content to throw me to the wolves and have at it, but whatever. I get it - if scum had started steamrolling, I would've gladly turned to get the upper hand - but I personally lost this game the moment I failed to account for Big Brother levels of voyeurism on the first night all game I was able to move. I also failed to account that someone else was capable of redirecting, and of course scum wasn't going to kill hb when they apparently can just steal from him with impunity. Until they didn't. To screw me.

Today sucks. If you want to "strike me down with all of your hatred," go right ahead. I've still got an even-night flavor cop ready if you allow me to live, and I'll cooperate.

Isquen posted...

if you allow me to live

lol no

Hater.