Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 10 - Return of the DAY

(+) Yeah! (+)

Also scum has a stolen track on me for Pokmon nights...

How many other stolen tracks have there been and who were those targets?

just adds into the info that scum has over us and helps to make a wild doc claim.

Obellisk posted...

that hurts, because if I was doc Death and or Sultan would still be alive frankly.

Well to me if I was protection I have been on hb every single night because why wouldn't you be. At least until last night where I thought Sultan was the obvious kill.

But anyway guess you aren't doctor. Sad

Obellisk posted...

Also scum has a stolen track on me for Pokmon nights...

How many other stolen tracks have there been and who were those targets?

just adds into the info that scum has over us and helps to make a wild doc claim.

Red

UltimaterializerX posted...

##Vote: Justin

Get him to L1, then unvote immediately. Its the proper way to test that claim, and he is correct that it needs to be tested ASAP.

It's a pokemon day

Its okay. Seriously remember it is just a fun internet game. No reason to feel bad.

Ngl I thought it was a Star Wars day too because I looked at the start of the topic before I claimed, forgetting that the Isquen lynch was so quick and we started this day mid-topic. So don't worry Ulti we can all be dumb together.

Im not sure Han would put a role like that in a game because it punishes town into auto losing at endgame for no fault of their own. You said its anti town but that goes into bastard territory.

Given everything where is your head at hb? Lots of wifom today

I want red to give me scans and answers :). Other than that, I kinda agree with Lea that MZero is the smartest route? Im not sure yet though.

The time for coyness has passed. Red has done a lot I think of as town red but if he can't give answers at this point then we have a problem.

Zubat, Votals, Meowth, Onix
[2] JC: Chris, Ulti
[1] Red: Hb
[1] MZero: Lea
[1] Ulti: SBell
[0] Abacus: (Ulti)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to reach majority. Day ends at 7pm eastern on Wednesday, roughly 27.5 hours from now.

I don't think Mzero and Ulti are both scum. Either one is scum and the other is town, or they're both town.

I'm more inclined to believe Ulti is scum, but if Mzero flips scum, that clears Ulti. Still, I don't like how he jumped on JC claiming Hated Vanilla. Like... yeah, we can test that claim, but if JC is telling the truth, we just lost a townie. A townie that could lose us the game, granted, but a townie nonetheless. I don't see JC and Ulti being a scum pair here, either.

We know that there's a multishot Thief out there. We also know JC, Lea, and Abacus didn't move on the nights they were scanned. Thief did not steal Hb's scan N1, but it's not unreasonable to assume they used it on somebody else without a power role. So the smart play is to lynch somebody between Ulti, Mzero, and Red who haven't been cleared town and also have no tracking info on them.

Between those three, only Mzero hasn't claimed. I'm still a little unsure about lynching him, since I think he's town by virtue of me believing Ulti is scum. But if Mzero flips scum, that's still useful information.

The only thing that concerns me is that the people on Mzero are Lea and I believe Abacus. So it might be a setup. But Lea is starting to look better for pushing Isquen from the start; however I recall Hb pointing out that Lea's reasoning for suspecting Isquen was inconsistent with why she suspected me. So there's still that to be concerned about.

My mind is on Mzero, but I still need to review the evidence on JC. Then I'll commit to a vote.

So the ulti scum team is lea/abacus/ulti iyo?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

So the ulti scum team is lea/abacus/ulti iyo?

Red is a possibility. I'm not convinced he's town just yet. But I suppose by process of elimination, that team you mentioned would mean Ulti is the elusive Role Thief. But we also know nothing of Red's Star Wars night actions, so he could also be the Role Thief.

But... I mean, that team right there doesn't seem too far-fetched. Have Lea and Abacus interacted that much? I think Lea has thrown some passing shade at Abacus for flying under the radar or something of that sort, but I don't think they've directly addressed each other.

Granted, Red + Lea scum team would also be weird with how at odds their roles are, unless they're both complete BS and it's just an elaborate bus. Hmm...

I feel like I need one more flip to really start to solidify and connect all these pairs I'm noticing. I don't think Lea + Mzero is out of the question. Even though Lea has been putting focus on Mzero, if she's scum, then that MO is identical to her interactions with Isquen: bus the scummate to make herself look better. But the problem with that is that there's too many confirmed townies (and a few with power roles, some of which are consistently getting countered) for that gambit to comfortably work out. Lea would be a PoE lynch eventually, and with scum's dwindling numbers, bussing them now would be tantamount of suicide unless their roles weren't vital to limiting town, which would imply she's the Role Thief, which can't be the case unless she just didn't use it N1.

And speaking of Isquen, I am just now recalling a point brought up in this topic about Isquen and Ben both mistaking Ulti for Corrik (or was it Corrik for Ulti?). If they were scummates with Ulti, yeah, that's a good point -- it would be strange.

Ugh, this is making my brain hurt. Perhaps Ulti and Lea are both town, then? That would leave the scum pool to JC + Red + Abacus + Mzero.

I'll do my analysis of JC shortly, but either way, Mzero is still a good option for being completely without an alibi.

Does someone have the big lost of claims?

Morning me is being overloaded trying to process this.

And yes my definition of morning is warped.

Lea - the fett/wobby vanilla/mirror (although when I asked if she was truthful she wiggled on the vanilla part)
Jc - jar jar/Bink - hated/vanilla
Ulti - r2mew2 - doctor full time
Hb - tracker/flavor cop
Kirby - gladiator/watcher
Mzero - chewie/pikachu
Red - ?/hider variant as a cool giraffe
Sbell - scanned inno
Scare - thankfully scanned innocent
Abacus - no claim
Chris - lovable

ViolentAbacus posted...

Mzero has been calling out for Isquens lynch since day 1.

Is this true? I missed that. The plot thickens...

Also, I like your analysis on JC. You bring up interesting points, but I did find this point from JC's post interesting:

Chaeix posted...

What's the point of even bringing up the lurker crew? If Lea is scum, this reeks of the same avoiding of my questioning that Ben did. Why did Ben engage in discussion but specifically avoid my question of commenting on the other lurkers?

If true, that's an interesting observation to make about Ben. Don't think it means much now, but it might be worth noting for later as we get more flips and the pool starts to narrow.

Chaeix posted...

So I did a kind return ISO of VA in topics 6-10 because he's an unknown quantity to me and while there admittedly wasn't much to work with or really get a read from, I actually found myself reading him to be a little more town from the following posts:

I think someone else raised this point first but would a scum VA point out something that in a weird roundabout way helps speak to Ulti's potential innocence? And as a matter of fact I'm not sure if this weird mixup has me thinking differently about Ulti. Do two scum members mix up Corrik/Ulti if Ulti's on their side?

I'm probably giving too much benefit of the doubt here but I don't think a newbie scum would dare comment with such an accurate flavor read? However I will acknowledge this post could be read in the exact opposite way, hence my benefit of the doubt.

The first point where Abacus notes that Ben and Isquen both mistook Corrik for Ulti (without knowing Isquen was scum at the time) does look good for Abacus. That much, I agree with.
... But that second point is a bit silly and strikes me as fluff. Palpatine as flavor is pretty easy for anyone to call. Granted Darth Vader would also have been a safe flavor to name as scum, but here I am as Anakin Skywalker so unless there's some Spiderman meme shenanigans going on, Vader is out.
... Not that it matters. The point is that Palpatine is such an obvious flavor choice that even Death made a comment like, "If anyone flavor scans as Palpitoad..."

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I mean, damn math calm down. If Mzero is town the town list was perfect. All hail math.

Well, at least it's not rule of three lol
... Granted, Ulti named every revealed Scum thus far, though Scare is on that list when he shouldn't be. Still, that accuracy is surprisingly good. Either Ulti is cracked at intuition, or he knows too much.
(That's hypocritical of me to say since, as Scare pointed out, my initial list was rather similar to Sheep and Ben's)

Chaeix posted...

Any sardonic tone there is more in relation to trying to rally votes with beauty and the beast lyrics and Lea jumping on tbh, adjacent bitterness is just collateral salt.

Surprised you asked me about that as opposed to when I actively asked whether there was really anything on Sheep outside the claim or something like that, which IIRC Kirby commented on at one point.

So yeah. This post. I can see why this came off as odd. For what it's worth, I believe the first part. It's clear from context clues that JC was referring to Plum and expressing his frustrations about his activity (and earlier in that topic where I believe the quote came from, in the same post Chris mentioned later as a response, JC was confused why everyone thought Plum was town despite his behavior).

The second part seems wholly unnecessary, but it's addressing what Chris was suggesting about JC being mad about Sheep getting votes. Yet at the same time, it does come off a tad defensive. Like, JC could've addressed that he was referring to frustrations with Plum and left it there. Mentioning that part about his initial questioning of Sheep getting votes would've been a better post for Chris to point out, I agree. But at the same time... why mention it?

I'm mixed about this post. I've certainly had moments of looking back at something I apparently said and trying to recall, "What the hell was I thinking here? Oh, right, this was the context." Given that there was 20 minutes between JC's post and Chris's, it's totally possible for this have been the case and JC would've found the other post from Topic 3, page 1 on the way. But at the same time... why bring it up?

UltimaterializerX posted...

I dont know.

But you keep mentioning night 2. Based based only on night 2, do you think Chris is confirmed town? Just a yes or no.

Meanwhile, this response from Ulti still bothers me. Like, this was me throwing a bone to Ulti and letting him confirm himself as the visitor. But then he says... Idk? Seriously? That's bogus; of course he knew. Why would Ulti say that when he knows for a fact he visited Chris N2? Was he scared I had a hidden ace up my sleeve or something? It's just such a bizarre reaction to my question.

I also realized I didn't answer his question. I don't think Chris is confirmed town, but do I think he's pretty damn likely to be town? Yes. In some wacky universe, Chris performed the most god-like bus to ever existed. Chris is good, and maybe he's 5D chess levels of good. But his interactions with Neighborizer Ben seem like a stupidly risky and absurd gambit that I reasonably don't think Chris would ever champion as scum, based on how he's played as town so far and his comments on who he would've protected/watched if he had those respective power roles. It's not impossible per se, but in my eyes, Chris is assuredly town.

That's enough review for now. This post is already getting large as it is. Of note, Mzero just claimed flavor. No roles yet. I wonder if he expected to have to claim and is stalling to build a fakeclaim? Granted, time zones are a thing, but we got Ulti and JC just full-claiming voluntarily while Mzero just left us with Pikachewbacca. JC is still lukewarm, and I'm not getting the best vibes from Ulti, but my mind is made up on Mzero being our safest lynch for today.

##Vote: Mzero

*I wonder if he didn't expect to have to claim

... I dunno if a correction like that is safe under editing rules, but I'm not about to find out.

UltimaterializerX posted...

If youre making this MZero vs me then I should be killed second. You do not kill uncountered protection unless there are legitimately no other options. But I dont know that MZero is scum anyway. I think the Red/Lea interaction is where we should look.

I already stated I'm not interested in killing you today.

That being said, I don't feel good about Red. Not until he stops hiding his night actions. I know his role is Hider, but this is taking the name a bit too seriously!
*cue laugh track*

Red reveals everything today or we kill him on principle. Town read or not.

Ulti would have us believe that every town power flipped and claimed and flipped scum is part time between sw and pokemon except him as a full time doctor.

I exclude the nilla/nillas that flipped cause every game needs them silly Nillie's.

occams razor dictates he's lying.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Red reveals everything today or we kill him on principle. Town read or not.

You know statements like this don't encourage me in the slightest.

Also there wasn't exactly much doubt, but I consider kirby confirmed because i dont believe my role exists without tracker/watcher on the town side.

The game was clearly designed with fun in mind and if there was no way for town to see me appear to murder someone my role would be a lot less fun from a host standpoint.

Red, just so I'm clear.
what we know of your claim is that you hide behind someone and if YOu get shot they get shot instead. so your objective is to only hide behind scum.

That's very nice, Red, but who did you hide behind? And do you die if you hide behind scum?

Leafeon13N posted...

You know statements like this don't encourage me in the slightest.

Also there wasn't exactly much doubt, but I consider kirby confirmed because i dont believe my role exists without tracker/watcher on the town side.

The game was clearly designed with fun in mind and if there was no way for town to see me appear to murder someone my role would be a lot less fun from a host standpoint.

Yeah but part of the fun aspect of mafia is being cooperative and solving together. Mafia is not an invidual game, regardless of how sometimes there are stand out performances. Your fun does not matter more than the fun of others. It's a super long game. Some of us want to solve. Can't just go 'we'll red is town I guess not cooperating let's check him off the list' like we can with scare.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Said I dont know because I didnt have Chriss blessing to claim yet and I was being coy on purpose.

You didn't have to claim your role, you know. Could've just affirmed that, yes, you did visit Chris and then left it at that. In fact, that's what I expected you to do, but that's not what ended up happening at all.

It's a trifling point, so I'm not gonna hold it that much against you. It just struck me as odd is all, especially on reading it initially.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yeah but part of the fun aspect of mafia is being cooperative and solving together

Nothing I have can currently add to this. So your point isn't much of a point.

Red. can you answer my question.

Leafeon13N posted...

Nothing I have can currently add to this. So your point isn't much of a point.

You can tell us if you got up last night or not and who you targeted night 2

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

This is ridiculous. I don't even care if Red is town or scum at this point. This behavior is clearly anti-town regardless.

(Giving me nostalgic vibes of my old community where we played Mafia and lynched people for being anti-town or trolling if we knew there weren't any Jesters. I don't remember if it ended up working out or completely backfiring most of the time, but now it's just a matter of principle)

... Wait, crap, there's not a chance that Red is a Jester... right?

Obellisk posted...

Red. can you answer my question.

Your question is correct from a technical standpoint.

Jester is a banned role and my take on this is that red is probably town who is being stubborn. Which is very much in his town range. I just wish he would cooperate nothing unreasonable is being asked and he is the one who volunteered his own claim.

Also kirby we play to win here. Down.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Jester is a banned role and my take on this is that red is probably town who is being stubborn. Which is very much in his town range. I just wish he would cooperate nothing unreasonable is being asked and he is the one who volunteered his own claim.

I can throw you a bone and tell you i dont get up on SW nights. They are dull and boring and the Pokemon setup seems way more interesting at a glance.

Leafeon13N posted...

Also kirby we play to win here. Down.

Really cause it seems like you arent doing that

Leafeon13N posted...

I can throw you a bone and tell you i dont get up on SW nights. They are dull and boring and the Pokemon setup seems way more interesting at a glance.

Thank you for telling us exactly how much scum knew 24 or whatever hours ago lol

Red why

Leafeon13N posted...

Your question is correct from a technical standpoint.

with that said, you can confirm that no one you've hidden behind has died that night ya?
and even if they did, you wouldn't have info to give.

I am trying to piece this together because it seems insane that scum would block red n4 and not kill him. If you are blocking hider it's mostly to murder them.

Obellisk posted...

with that said, you can confirm that no one you've hidden behind has died that night ya?

I only hid once and they are alive.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am trying to piece this together because it seems insane that scum would block red n4 and not kill him. If you are blocking hider it's mostly to murder them.

Crackpot theory, my target auto roleblocks and is a dirty liar.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am trying to piece this together because it seems insane that scum would block red n4 and not kill him. If you are blocking hider it's mostly to murder them.

It seems insane that scum would have a Roleblocker at all on Pokmon night after using their backup on redirector

Leafeon13N posted...

I only hid once and they are alive.

I can live with this