Poll of the Day > lmao, Lauren bobert used to be an "escort" and has had two abortions

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jen0125 posted...

I multiple post a lot because I type and think fast.

So I take it you are NOT an OB/GYN

You read my post, so you should already know the answer.

Jen0125 posted...

so your opinion does NOT matter

Correct - no more than yours, at any rate. Probably not less either, unless you have some qualifications I'm unaware of.

Jen0125 posted...

Of course I'm mad a bunch of men want a say in what I can do with my own body and life

And I'm not one of them, so I have no idea why you're getting pissy at me.

Again, to be clear, I think the men who want a say in what you can do with your body and life are assholes. I think they should fuck off and let women decide for themselves what sort of reproductive care they should have and whether or not they want to put their body through the toll that pregnancy takes.

You seem to have a problem with me saying that. I don't understand why.

But I also don't really care. As previously mentioned, this cause is more important than you, so I'm not going to sit down and shut up about it, because EVERYONE who believes that a right to a safe, legal abortion is important needs to be making as much noise about this as possible, whether they are directly affected or not. Men, women who are past menopause or are infertile, people who live in states or countries where abortion is legal and not presently under threat, none of us technically are threatened by the potential fall of Roe v. Wade; we can and still should speak up about it, because that is the moral and ethical thing to do. That we are not directly affected shouldn't - and doesn't - matter.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

Ive never understood why multiple posts in a row is seen as bad. Its just a posting style

cant overload the incredibly busy gamefaqs servers or use up their very limited message space

It is probably not true but if she did I would have more respect for her as a sex worker.

its a disgrace how in flat out denying it she insults sex workers and should be ashamed of herself true or not.

she would be more popular and have more respect if she just became a lesbian porn Star

adjl posted...

Pretty much everything I've said to you here has been an effort to help you realize what the core of the argument actually is, since you're completely missing it.

No u

A man's opinion on abortion means less than a woman's opinion. Full stop.

We don't live in some idyllic "post-bias" society. If we did, then everyone's non-biased opinion would be equal on every issue and we could all share root beer floats and count rainbows and roll around in piles of fuzzy kittens and sunshine and gumdrops and all that happy horseshit.

But we don't.

So we need to account for the biases inherent in our flawed system. We need to lift women and other marginalized groups up so that their voices can be heard. Loud, and crystal-fucking-clear.

A man's opinion on abortion means less than a woman's.

I'll keep explaining it if I have to.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

Ive never understood why multiple posts in a row is seen as bad. Its just a posting style

It's easier than editing a post, but these cats are grasping at straws scrambling to soothe their smarting male egos and be "right", so I guess they'll try to manufacture a win wherever they can

DirtBasedSoap posted...

Ive never understood why multiple posts in a row is seen as bad. Its just a posting style

I also don't know why it's bad to care? Lmao I'm glad some people can afford to be apathetic but most can't

I'd love to see men's reaction if a full panel of female politicians had hearings and decided to just propose a female only sponsored bill that restricts their rights to viagra and vasectomies. I'm sure it'd be totally fine for the majority because the women are in a position of power. Lol

Far-Queue posted...

A man's opinion on abortion means less than a woman's opinion.

No, it doesn't.

Far-Queue posted...

So we need to account for the biases inherent in our flawed system. We need to lift women and other marginalized groups up so that their voices can be heard. Loud, and crystal-fucking-clear.

OK. I don't disagree. But I fail to see how saying, "an opinion from a man, even if well-founded in research, professional experience, and data, is automatically worth less than an opinion from a woman, even if it's based off of only her gut instinct," is doing any of that.

Yes, marginalized communities need to be heard and need to be brought into the public mainstream. This isn't that.

Far-Queue posted...

I'll keep explaining it if I have to.

"Keep" explaining it? So far you haven't explained your logic behind it at all. You've just repeated it over and over without actually laying out the underlying logic for it.

You want to have that discussion? Grand, I'm game. But you need to stake out your position first. I literally just went back through the entire topic and not once have you actually stated *why* you believe that a woman's view is automatically more important than a man's.

And, because I apparently have to add this disclaimer, I am not saying that a woman's view is automatically less than a man's, nor am I saying it is impossible for a woman's view to be more important than a man's if that woman has particular attributes - be that experience, education, or expertise - that would elevate her viewpoint. I am merely challenging the statement that a woman's view is always more important that a man's view which, to my eye, simply isn't true.

It's also funny how darkknight is only addressing my female opinion and not the men who agree with me. After telling me it'd be easier for the lil wimmen to be quiet

Edit - oh no he finally just did lol

Jen0125 posted...

I'd love to see men's reaction if a full panel of female politicians had hearings and decided to just propose a female only sponsored bill that restricts their rights to viagra and vasectomies. I'm sure it'd be totally fine for the majority because the women are in a position of power. Lol

Oh no, they'd be upset about it, but they'd respect their opinions on the matter as equals, you see

Far-Queue posted...

Oh no, they'd be upset about it, but they'd respect their opinions on the matter as equals, you see

Because I have the same understanding of living as a man as you do because a scientist told me something

Jen0125 posted...

It's also funny how darkknight is only addressing my female opinion and not the men who agree with me.

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I've spent far more time in this topic responding to them than you, largely because they're the ones actually contributing to the discussion.

Jen0125 posted...

After telling me it'd be easier for the lil wimmen to be quiet

No, not women, just you specifically.

Jen0125 posted...

Adjl I'm not reading it. I never pegged you as one of the self important but I'm glad you showed your true colors finally after all these years

My "true colours" of caring about the semantic content of an argument instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks? I don't think I've ever particularly kept those hidden.

I'll say it again: Pro-life men do indeed have a less valid opinion than pro-life women. Pro-choice men, however, are on pretty equal footing with pro-choice women because the primary basis for that position doesn't rely on personal experience. That's not an effort to diminish the value of women and their voices, it's the simple reality of the situation and the logic involved. If you disagree, feel free to answer the question I just asked about how not being able to get pregnant makes it any more difficult for somebody to arrive at the opinion that nobody should be forced to carry a pregnancy, because explaining that logic is the only possible basis for changing my understanding of the situation.

Far-Queue posted...

So we need to account for the biases inherent in our flawed system. We need to lift women and other marginalized groups up so that their voices can be heard. Loud, and crystal-f***ing-clear.

Accounting for those biases, however, means pointing them out specifically, not in such broad terms as "everyone in this group has a less valid opinion." Telling somebody that their biases prevent them from understanding the situation without telling them what those biases are or why they're interfering accomplishes nothing (if not less, by fostering resentment and animosity).

People with valid opinions should make those opinions heard whenever possible and relevant. That doesn't mean steamrolling conversations and not letting anyone else express themselves (which men do indeed do pretty often), but if somebody's doing that, call them out for being rude, not for having an invalid opinion (that being outright false). If somebody's expressing an invalid opinion, challenge it by pointing out specifically why it's invalid, not by trying to tell them they shouldn't have a platform for some seemingly-unrelated reason.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

Ive never understood why multiple posts in a row is seen as bad. Its just a posting style

It generally conveys the implication that you're in a rush to make each of the posts and hit the "post" button so quickly that you forgot to include something else. Editing is also generally just a tidier way to append afterthoughts to a post, since it makes sure the information is all in one place instead of potentially being interrupted.

Keep" explaining it? So far you haven't explained your logic behind it at all. You've just repeated it over and over without actually laying out the underlying logic for it.

I have, if you bothered to pay attention. It's right there in the post you've quoted, and peppered throughout the topic. But you're too wrapped up in gnashing your teeth and trying to be right to absorb what I'm saying I guess

It's crazy to me that adjl is so smart and can't perceive the male ignorance and bias when it comes to female healthcare simply because science?

Jen0125 posted...

I'd love to see men's reaction if a full panel of female politicians had hearings and decided to just propose a female only sponsored bill that restricts their rights to viagra and vasectomies. I'm sure it'd be totally fine for the majority because the women are in a position of power. Lol

adjl posted...

I'll say it again: Pro-life men do indeed have a less valid opinion than pro-life women.

You keep bringing up examples that aren't analogous at all. It's the same as Far's circumcision example: Restricting rights that don't affect you is bad. Protecting rights that don't affect you is fine.

Jen0125 posted...

It's crazy to me that adjl is so smart and can't perceive the male ignorance and bias when it comes to female healthcare simply because science?

I mean, my sister spent hours in the emergency room and was ultimately told to go home and take an advil by a male resident who thought a 5 cm cyst on her ovary wasn't cause for concern (who, thankfully, was subsequently torn a new one by his female supervisor), but sure, keep insisting that I can't care about female health care or the blatant sexist discrepancies therein because I'm not a woman.

It really is so sad and pathetic to witness men who literally can't tolerate being told your opinion isn't important. Look at all this meltdown.

If pro-life mens opinion is less valid than pro-life women so is a pro choice man's. The validity doesn't change based on the correctness of your morals lol. Being on the "correct side" doesn't make you more valid.

Jen0125 posted...

If pro-life mens opinion is less valid than pro-life women so is a pro choice man's. The validity doesn't change based on the correctness of your morals lol. Being on the "correct side" doesn't make you more valid.

Being on the side where personal experience is logically irrelevant, however, does. Which, you know, is exactly what I've been saying. It's nothing to do with morals and everything to do with logic.

adjl posted...

It generally conveys the implication that you're in a rush to make each of the posts and hit the "post" button so quickly that you forgot to include something else. Editing is also generally just a tidier way to append afterthoughts to a post, since it makes sure the information is all in one place instead of potentially being interrupted.

Ah yes, the age old internet argument that youre telling other people what theyre thinking and feeling. Classic.

I don't agree with you regarding it having to do with morals or logic. It simply has to do with the fact that men will never experience what they are trying to support or suppress so maybe take a back fucking seat and let the women handle it??? That's point blank period and I'll keep repeating it until you die.

Archaea_Ottoia posted...

Ah yes, the age old internet argument that youre telling other people what theyre thinking and feeling. Classic.

Correction: What their actions and behaviours suggest about what they're thinking and feeling. I don't necessarily know what they're thinking/feeling, I'm just pointing out the impression it gives.

Jen0125 posted...

I don't agree with you regarding it having to do with morals or logic. It simply has to do with the fact that men will never experience what they are trying to support or suppress so maybe take a back f***ing seat and let the women handle it??? That's point blank period and I'll keep repeating it until you die.

Everything has to do with logic. Yours is faulty, which is only giving me more reason to keep expressing pro-choice support to pick up your slack.

Far-Queue posted...

I have, if you bothered to pay attention. It's right there in the post you've quoted, and peppered throughout the topic.

Where specifically?

You opened and closed that post by saying that men's opinions are worth less than women's on abortion. OK, that's headlining and reaffirming your conclusion.

But then what's in between those two points? "We don't live in a bias-free society" - true statement, but this doesn't explain why a man's voice should count for less than a woman's.

"We need to account for the biases in our system by lifting up women and marginalized groups." OK... but, again, why does this mean that a man's voice should be worth less than a woman's?

Are you saying that it isn't possible for women to be biased? Or that it's impossible to correct for biases in any other way other than ignoring or downplaying men? Because I don't think that's valid. Cutting out fully half the population (over half of whom are from those "marginalized groups" you just said you wanted to raise up) doesn't strike me as conducive to drawing good conclusions.

As adjl and I have been saying, it is fully possible for a man to form a valid, educated opinion on abortion. That is not something exclusive to women. Women *do* have the avenue of personal experience that men cannot have, but not all women actually have that experience to call upon. If you want to split hairs, a man who supported his wife through a difficult pregnancy and abortion has more personal experience to call upon than a woman who is infertile and, thus, has never had to worry about pregnancies OR abortions. Plus, as mentioned, personal experience is not the be-all, end-all of ANY debate, on ANY subject. As we've learned from numerous subjects - "tough on crime" bills, punitive incarceration, and abstinence-only sex education being amongst the most visible examples - making decisions solely on "gut feelings" and personal experience, while excising any dispassionate analysis, frequently leads to inefficient, bad, and/or counterproductive ends.

So connect the dots. If you have a reason - a non-subjective or, at least, subjective-but-supported one - as to why a woman's views on abortion should be automatically elevated over a man's, regardless of their relative levels of experience, education, and expertise on the subject, do share.

God this man really gets no attention in real life look how sad it is

Everyone in this topic: women should have the right to choose for themselves

Jen/farq: men shouldn't tell women what to do with their bodies, you're all wrong because you are men that want to control women

Everyone else: yeah, men shouldn't tell women what to do with their bodies, that's why I'm pro choice

Jen/farq: look at all these misogynistic men trying to control women

The discourse of this topic pretty funny if you think about it

Again, I ask you: How does being able to get pregnant affect your ability to say "women should be able to decide whether or not they want to carry a pregnancy to term"? Specifically, how does that make it more valid than somebody who can't get pregnant saying exactly the same thing?

If you want your position respected, try actually providing a basis for it instead of repeating it with increasing anger in the hope that your passion will convince people you don't need logic.

Jen0125 posted...

It simply has to do with the fact that men will never experience what they are trying to support or suppress so maybe take a back fucking seat and let the women handle it?

Hold on, what about women who are unable to have children? Or those who have already passed childbearing age and never got pregnant? They'll never have that experience either, so I guess they shouldn't have an opinion on it, right?

But wait, doesn't that contradict your assertion that women's opinions on this are always more important than men's? Hmm...

And while I will never have the experience of going through a pregnancy or abortion, you'll never have the experience of supporting and consoling your wife through one, knowing that you, being the one who impregnated her, are partially responsible for her being in this position.

See? We all have experiences that others don't. That doesn't categorically elevate our opinions over one another, it just means we have different perspectives, with the validity of those perspectives needing to be considered on a case by case basis.

I don't care if men respect me or my positions on anything. I'm not sure why you even said that lmao.

I'm not explaining anything to you or delving further because I don't care to babysit and handhold men who want to be the most important because penis. It has no benefit. I don't care if you respect anything about me. It's never my goal. I hope that clears things up.

And this clown above me asking dumb shit questions about infertile women lmao as though attacking other women's rights doesn't affect them. You're an absolute clown and with no insight.

Jen's pretty mad ITT.

Yeah it's really maddening that men think they have any right to tell women what to do with their bodies lmao

It does make me mad. Why should that be something bad or shameful? Every tactic you've tried in this topic has failed.

Your opinion STILL doesn't matter AND you look like a huge baby throwing a tantrum because mommy said no.

Also you're the one who has wasted untold amounts of time typing paragraphs to me that I literally didn't even read over and over and over again to defend yourself and your position

But I'm the mad one

Jen0125 posted...

Yeah it's really maddening that men think they have any right to tell women what to do with their bodies lmao

Agreed. Fortunately, I'm not one of them.

Jen0125 posted...

Every tactic you've tried in this topic has failed.

Failed to do what?

Convince you? I was never trying to do that. You are beyond my help and it's not worth my time trying.
Prove you wrong? I've done that several times to my satisfaction.
Make you mad? Can neither confirm nor deny that was one of my goals, but if it was, mission accomplished, apparently.

Jen0125 posted...

Your opinion STILL doesn't matter

Agreed. But then again, neither does yours.

Jen0125 posted...

AND you look like a huge baby throwing a tantrum because mommy said no.

Hey, you're saying the same thing to me that I said to you earlier in the topic!

Love me some good old fashioned Donald Trump "no u!" projection.

Jen0125 posted...

Also you're the one who has wasted untold amounts of time typing paragraphs to me

None of my posts took me more than a minute or two to write, nor were they directed to you in particular. They were in response to your statements, but I don't honestly care if you read them or not - as said above, you're beyond my help, so they're more for the rest of the board to read through as they please.

Jen0125 posted...

that I literally didn't even read

You did a pretty good job plucking sentences out of the middle of them for not reading them.

Jen0125 posted...

But I'm the mad one

I mean, you've already admitted that a couple times, so... yes?

He really wants to have the last word for his massive ego

faramir77 posted...

After this comment, Jen spent a portion of literally every following hour of the day responding to this topic, typically with an attitude fitting of a 13 year old rather than an adult in their mid 30s.

It still continues but her kliq have now joined the fray. Probably from her Discord server or something. These topics about serious issues always go the same way involving Jen. Most the time she's completely wrong and can't be taken seriously at all. I can only assume nobody bothers with her in real life so she posts here for male attention. It's working so good for her.

Maybe you and adjl can circle jerk each other about how important your opinions are til the topic closes

Jen0125 posted...

I don't care if men respect me or my positions on anything. I'm not sure why you even said that lmao.

And yet you've spent 280 posts trying to convince everyone here that you're saying something valid. I'm just offering you a time-saving measure.

Jen0125 posted...

I'm not explaining anything to you or delving further because I don't care to babysit and handhold men who want to be the most important because penis

I don't want to be the most important. I want to have a complete understanding of the world around me and the significant issues facing it. What you're saying is at odds with my understanding, so I'm inviting you to explain yourself better so I can correct that understanding if needed. You're unwilling to do so, so the only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that you don't actually have a point and I can safely ignore your objections.

Jen0125 posted...

lmao as though attacking other women's rights doesn't affect them.

This is a valid point (see: TERFs siding with fascists to attack trans people, then having that bite them in the ass when it turns out that fascists don't actually like feminists), but it's much broader than you seem to realize. Eroding the rights of childbearing women also stands to erode the rights of other women, but why stop there? When do they start punishing men for being "too effeminate" because they don't work in the right fields or like sportsball enough? What happens to the men that tried to speak out in favour of women whose rights were being stripped away, or who try to help them after it's illegal to do so?

This is a human rights issue. I care about human rights, so I care about abortion rights, just as I care about trans rights and gay rights and all those other fun things that I'm privileged enough to ignore but am choosing not to. I don't want to be left in the position of saying "they came for abortions, but I didn't care because I couldn't get pregnant," and you have no right to insist that I should be.

Adam_Savage posted...

has had two abortions

Major Red flag, oof

darkknight109 posted...

Jen's pretty mad ITT.

yeah its definitely Jen and not the guys writing fucking novels because she disagrees with you

I feel like you blokes are so close to getting the point yet still miles away

Having a less valid opinion is not a wholesale dismissal of said opinion. Put your ego on pause for a moment and absorb that.

No amount of education or study can subvert the lived experience.

Someone who has extensively studied something, even earned a degree on the matter, should certainly have a certain weight behind their opinion over some rando with an "uneducated" opinion.

Same can be said for the lived experience.

Should an academic be given more credit when voicing an opinion on something that they've studied? Sure. But at the end of the day, the affected individual's opinion should have the most consideration.

It bears repeating since ya'll seem hung up on this, that doesn't mean ya'lls opinions go straight in the trash. It simply means they don't matter as much as the person who is directly affected by actions that take place once opinions are put to legislation.

Take a breath, check your ego, realize you're not 100% wrong but that you are in fact wrong, and learn from this:

A man's opinion on abortion means less than a woman's opinion.

I'll keep explaining it if I have to.

youre allowed to have an opinion, its just completely meaningless

AltOmega2 posted...

Major Red flag, oof

Eh, it happens, especially for sex workers who aren't always in full control of their birth control situation. Turning around and pushing a pro-life agenda after having two secret abortions is pretty deplorable, but I'm not going to judge her simply for having the abortions without more specific, damning information.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

youre allowed to have an opinion, its just completely meaningless

I even said that. I said they're even allowed to vote using their opinion! But that doesn't mean their opinion is valid or matters lmao

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/9/AAFUswAADWQL.jpg

Metalsonic66 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/9/AAFUswAADWQL.jpg

Lmao I just say oh no thank you

Far-Queue posted...

Having a less valid opinion is not a wholesale dismissal of said opinion.

Then what does it mean? That I should listen to and incorporate what women say in forming my opinion, because the stakes are higher for them and they therefore may have some insights that I haven't considered? Because I've done exactly that many times over and continue to be open to having my opinion developed further by new insights, most of which come from women (directly or indirectly). That doesn't mean my opinion is "less valid" for me being a man, that just means it's an opinion like every single other one on the planet: There's virtually always room to improve it by incorporating new information.

Far-Queue posted...

No amount of education or study can subvert the lived experience.

Let's say you have a choice of voting between two politicians:

• "I caught Covid and just had some sniffles, so there's no point in doing anything to control or treat the disease"
• "I've consulted with a wide range of doctors and epidemiologists who have presented data indicating the Covid will kill millions of Americans unless we try to contain it and develop facilities to be able to treat victims"

Do you vote for #1 because "no amount of education or study can subvert the lived experience"? Or do you vote for #2 because n=1 is pretty useless for making population-scale decisions? Or if you personally think Covid's response was overblown and #1's approach would have been better, swap them (#1 almost died and wants stricter controls, #2 has data showing there's no significant risk on a population scale).

Sometimes, personal experience does trump objective data and professional expertise. Sometimes, letting personal experience trump objective data and professional expertise is a really bad idea. You really can't make a blanket statement like you did. The relevance of personal experience to any given opinion's validity needs to be assessed for that opinion, by looking at the context and the basis supporting it.

I tend to do a ninja-class withdraw from the scene when I so much as sense someone's gonna do that. Like, "Nope, I'm out; I was never here."

DirtBasedSoap posted...

yeah its definitely Jen and not the guys writing fucking novels because she disagrees with you

I mean, I write a lot normally.

I'm not angry - more just confused as to why Jen is continually attacking people who agree with her stance on abortion (because they apparently aren't agreeing the right way, or something?). It's honestly kind of sad to see her just continually tossing insults around at people who aren't even really engaging her.

Far-Queue posted...

Having a less valid opinion is not a wholesale dismissal of said opinion. Put your ego on pause for a moment and absorb that.

I don't think anyone's suggested otherwise.

Also, to clarify, this is not a matter of ego. adjl doesn't strike me as the egotistical type; I can tell you I'm not. Accept or reject that as you please, but it's the truth. The reason I'm pushing back on what you've been saying in this topic so far has nothing to do with a bruised ego or anything of the sort; it's because I find dismissing, belittling, or otherwise invalidating (in part or in whole) people's views because of immutable properties of their identity (their sex, their race, their ethnicity, their sexual orientation, so on and so forth) to be extremely dangerous. The "you can't possibly understand, you're not white enough/male enough/*insert characteristic here* enough" excuse has been used to justify some of humanity's most horrific actions, from segregation to voting exclusion to genocide. I know that's not what you're trying to do here, but I inherently tend to recoil from lines of logic that tie a viewpoint to physical attributes of whoever is saying it.

I don't feel "threatened" or belittled by your views; I just think they're wrong.

Far-Queue posted...

Someone who has extensively studied something, even earned a degree on the matter, should certainly have a certain weight behind their opinion over some rando with an "uneducated" opinion.

Same can be said for the lived experience.

So far I'm in agreement.

Far-Queue posted...

Should an academic be given more credit when voicing an opinion on something that they've studied? Sure. But at the end of the day, the affected individual's opinion should have the most consideration.

OK. Why?

Because here's the thing - your experiences, however valid they are, are still unique to you. There is no guarantee that someone else in the same circumstances will have the same experience. Someone might have an abortion and say that it was a huge relief, that it removed from them the anxiety of having to see through a difficult pregnancy with all the risks and life complications that it presented. They might use that experience to say that they firmly believe safe, legal abortions are essential. Someone else might have an abortion at the same age, the same clinic, the same doctor, and say it was an emotionally traumatic experience that they never fully came to terms with and that they are still haunted by thoughts of the baby they never had. That person might use that experience to say that they firmly believe that abortion should be illegal in most or all cases, save for a few exceptions for the usual reasons (rape, incest, health of the mother).

Neither of those experiences are "wrong" and both are totally valid. Yet, despite those experiences having taken place in nearly identical circumstances, they draw completely opposite conclusions.

That's the problem with personal experience - it's extremely subjective. That doesn't make it meaningless, but, to my eye, it does not elevate it to the level of dispassionate analysis which, in part, tends to try and aggregate all those experiences and make some sense of them by analyzing trends and patterns ("How many women had good experiences? How many had bad ones? Which group is larger and by how much? How many didn't get an abortion despite wanting one and what was their outcome?" So on and so forth).

That analysis is typically undertaken by academics or observed by people actually performing the procedure, which is why I tend to rate their viewpoints more heavily. Or, to put it another way, a woman might have experience with one abortion; her doctor probably has experience with hundreds, if not thousands.

Far-Queue posted...

I'll keep explaining it if I have to.

I am legitimately interested in continuing this discussion.

That's not sarcasm, in case it comes across that way. You did a good job of laying out the logic for your views, which is what I was asking for. I still disagree and you're not likely to change my mind, but I still think the discussion is worthwhile.

AWinterJ posted...

It still continues but her kliq have now joined the fray. Probably from her Discord server or something. These topics about serious issues always go the same way involving Jen. Most the time she's completely wrong and can't be taken seriously at all. I can only assume nobody bothers with her in real life so she posts here for male attention. It's working so good for her.

lowkey tell us that youre mad that you arent in a discord group though