Current Events > When someone says organic is better gmo

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is a watermelon

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/3/2/AARLwzAADfcg.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/4/6/AAW5a5AADeFO.jpg

Maybe you just picked up an unripe watermelon since that's what they look like.

Idk the watermelon I ate from small towns in Italy were by far the tastiest ones I ever had and I doubt they were filled with all the garbage that is sprayed on crops in America

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

Maybe you just picked up an unripe watermelon since that's what they look like.

Nah this is what watermelons looked like before we performed thousands of years of selective breeding to get what we wanted.

Same exact deal as bananas.

how did u get a camera to shoot with that far back into the past.

I think the picture is a regular wild watermelon, but I don't see what that has to do with the terms organic or gmo

Letron_James posted...

Idk the watermelon I ate from small towns in Italy were by far the tastiest ones I ever had and I doubt they were filled with all the garbage that is sprayed on crops in America

Why would they not use cheap pesticides?

Letron_James posted...

Idk the watermelon I ate from small towns in Italy were by far the tastiest ones I ever had and I doubt they were filled with all the garbage that is sprayed on crops in America

....You think GMOs are pesticides?

fwiw selective breeding isn't considered "gmo". Neither bananas or watermelons are actually "gmo".

Organic also doesn't just mean non-gmo. Organic means they are not allowed to use pesticides, among other things, and it's a government certification.

This is corn:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/1/5/AAEhCpAADfdz.jpg

Damn_Underscore posted...

Organic also doesn't just mean non-gmo. Organic means they are not allowed to use pesticides, among other things, and it's a government certification.

Doesnt it only mean they cant use non "natural" pesticides?

I think you're mixing up some terms, TC. But you are right in spirit. Anti-GMO people are chucklefucks.

LightHawKnight posted...

Doesnt it only mean they cant use non "natural" pesticides?

I don't know what the exact restrictions are. But there are restrictions.

Bio1590 posted...

fwiw selective breeding isn't considered "gmo". Neither bananas or watermelons are actually "gmo".

It can. All depends on who you're asking. There's a push to drop the GMO label in favor of GEO (Engineered vs Modified) because the definition of GMO is too vague and there's little international consensus.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Organic also doesn't just mean non-gmo. Organic means they are not allowed to use pesticides, among other things, and it's a government certification.

Organic crops are allowed to use pesticides. They aren't allowed to use to couple specific pesticides that are synthetic (most notably stuff like Glyphosate)

But selective breeding and artificial selection pressures don't really count as "GMO" - those are saved for when we tinker with the genome. Otherwise literally nothing would really qualify as organic.

Aren't Bananas the ones that literally can't reproduce on their own because we've bred the seeds down so small?

Proto_Spark posted...

Aren't Bananas the ones that literally can't reproduce on their own because we've bred the seeds down so small?

"Depends"

You know you can't grow apples by planting the seeds either. I mean like, you'll get a tree and it will grow apples but they won't be the apple you planted and they'll taste like shit.

Same thing with avocados.

The way we perpetuate apple and avocado orchards is by grafting, where you plant a seed, grow a sprout, cut it off at the top and then stick in a twig from the plant that you're trying to grow and if you're lucky the twig ends up taking over the sprout and becomes the new tree.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It can. All depends on who you're asking. There's a push to drop the GMO label in favor of GEO (Engineered vs Modified) because the definition of GMO is too vague and there's little international consensus.

Yeah maybe if you're asking the anti-gmo "GMOs are scary!" people.

There's nothing "genetically modified" about either the bananas or watermelons you buy at a retail store. Something like corn on the other hand? Yes.

Proto_Spark posted...

Aren't Bananas the ones that literally can't reproduce on their own because we've bred the seeds down so small?

Some store-bought peppers aren't possible to grow again from the seeds they contain.

(Which makes me wonder why not just eliminate the seeds?)

Bio1590 posted...

Some store-bought peppers aren't possible to grow again from the seeds they contain.

(Which makes me wonder why not just eliminate the seeds?)

Isnt a decent portion of the heat from the seeds?

Proto_Spark posted...

But selective breeding and artificial selection pressures don't really count as "GMO" - those are saved for when we tinker with the genome

But that's exactly what selective breeding does.

yeah I've heard all banana and apple trees are actually clones of one particular individual

the ones that are harvested for our groceries anyway

14th century watermelon perfectly preserved

Banana
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/5/AAEhCpAADffN.jpg

ZMythos posted...

But that's exactly what selective breeding does.

No, GMO is straight-up gene editing that would be impossible without modern scientific advancements. For example corn has had a protein inserted into it that kills certain pests if they try and eat it, which would be impossible to attain otherwise because said protein never naturally occurred in corn.

Whereas something like the cotton candy-flavoured grapes are not GMO despite being selectively bred for decades because everything that was done to produce them was "natural".

LightHawKnight posted...

Isnt a decent portion of the heat from the seeds?

Maybe for some of the more specialized peppers but I mean for like the green/red/orange/yellow bell peppers you buy from the store. People don't eat the seeds from those.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Organic also doesn't just mean non-gmo. Organic means they are not allowed to use pesticides, among other things, and it's a government certification.

Not correct. Organics use pesticides, too.

Almonds:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/9/AAEhCpAADffR.jpg

Bio1590 posted...

No, GMO is straight-up gene editing that would be impossible without modern scientific advancements. For example corn has had a protein inserted into it that kills certain pests if they try and eat it, which would be impossible to attain otherwise because said protein never naturally occurred in corn.

Whereas something like the cotton candy-flavoured grapes are not GMO despite being selectively bred for decades because everything that was done to produce them was "natural".

Maybe for some of the more specialized peppers but I mean for like the green/red/orange/yellow bell peppers you buy from the store. People don't eat the seeds from those.

Nah. This is straight up from the US department of agriculture.

https://www.usda.gov/topics/biotechnology/biotechnology-glossary

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/1/AARLwzAADffT.jpg

Bio1590 posted...

No, GMO is straight-up gene editing that would be impossible without modern scientific advancements. For example corn has had a protein inserted into it that kills certain pests if they try and eat it, which would be impossible to attain otherwise because said protein never naturally occurred in corn.

Whereas something like the cotton candy-flavoured grapes are not GMO despite being selectively bred for decades because everything that was done to produce them was "natural".

So the definition is kind of arbitrary. There isn't a real difference between more specific gene editing from something like CRISPR and encouraging certain phenotypic traits with selective breeding. Nothing with GMOs are that far out of the realm of something we could theoretically do with more more selective pressures over a longer period of time, like we have the previous like 10000 years or whatever.

Its just GMOs are new and use crazy mad science so it feels a little scarier than the genetic modifying we always do.

"Organic" is mostly just a term for marketing.

Proto_Spark posted...

So the definition is kind of arbitrary. There isn't a real difference between more specific gene editing from something like CRISPR and encouraging certain phenotypic traits with selective breeding. Nothing with GMOs are that far out of the realm of something we could theoretically do with more more selective pressures over a longer period of time, like we have the previous like 10000 years or whatever.

Its just GMOs are new and use crazy mad science so it feels a little scarier than the genetic modifying we always do.

"Organic" is mostly just a term for marketing.

Yes there is, and it's pretty damn obvious. As far as I recall, with selective breeding, all you can do is selectively breed for the general traits you want over a period of time. (Juicyness, ripeness, freshness, size, etc.) However, this isn't assured assured.

With gene editing you have much more direct control over every aspect of the fruit/plant and can immediately alter traits as you please, such as defenses against viruses, bacteria, and so on. You have extreme precision immediately. And you can select things for the plant to pass on. Or even add genes from different plants into it to effect it in a number of different ways.

Just for the record, I'm not against GMOs, just making a point that while with selective breeding we can accomplish a lot of what gene editing can do, it's nowhere near what we can do with actual gene editing

"Organic" and "non-GMO" don't necessarily refer to the same thing

Not sure what the difference is between inserting a gene into a plant and natural hybrids. If the only fundamental difference is "more options", I don't really think that's significant.

DeadBankerDream posted...

Not sure what the difference is between inserting a gene into a plant and natural hybrids. If the only fundamental difference is "more options", I don't really think that's significant.

By inserting genes into plants you can do things to them that would be impossible otherwise, even with selectively breeding them for millennia upon millennia.

For example "Bt corn" has been modified to contain proteins from a naturally-occurring bacterium (one that is actually used in organic farming). These proteins are toxic to certain insects that would otherwise devastate corn crops if left unchecked, so it gives the corn resistance to the insects, allows farmers to use less insecticide, and increases yearly yield.

You would never be able to actually breed something like that into corn naturally.

Eesh, no wonder people ate so much meat back then.

The fruit and veg sucked, even if you were willing to eat them.

And it only cost $5 more.

Bio1590 posted...

By inserting genes into plants you can do things to them that would be impossible otherwise, even with selectively breeding them for millennia upon millennia.

For example "Bt corn" has been modified to contain proteins from a naturally-occurring bacterium (one that is actually used in organic farming). These proteins are toxic to certain insects that would otherwise devastate corn crops if left unchecked, so it gives the corn resistance to the insects, allows farmers to use less insecticide, and increases yearly yield.

You would never be able to actually breed something like that into corn naturally.

You're talking about Genetic Engineering though, not Genetic Modification.

Tyranthraxus posted...

You're talking about Genetic Engineering though, not Genetic Modification.

I think this is what most people think of when they hear "GMOs". If they need to change the name to make it more accurate like someone mentioned above, then they should.

Damn_Underscore posted...

I think this is what most people think of when they hear "GMOs". If they need to change the name to make it more accurate like someone mentioned above, then they should.

They already did, they're called GEOs. Marketing is just slow to catch up.

Tyranthraxus posted...

You're talking about Genetic Engineering though, not Genetic Modification.

That's what GMOs have been known as forever, that's not my fault.

Bio1590 posted...

That's what GMOs have been known as forever, that's not my fault.

Not according to the US department of agriculture who, afaik, has never changed their definition. WHO, CDC, and EU have all had changing definitions over years but the USDA is the one setting the regulations for it in America.