Current Events > We need a better plan than just voting Democrat.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Democrats can only slow our march to the authoritarian Right. They won't stop it, much less reverse course to the left.

After all, Democrats are a center right party

Primaries

Move to Switzerland.

Dems always remind me of this image

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/1/AAAlB_AADgKR.jpg

Jagr_68 posted...

Move to Switzerland.

That doesn't solve the problem.

There's things that can be done

theAteam posted...

Dems always remind me of this image

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/1/AAAlB_AADgKR.jpg

Hmmm, horseshoe theory or ratchet effect...which sounds less shitty

Which is better

Accolon posted...

After all, Democrats are a center right party

By what measure

More local political involvement?

gigageek1500 posted...

Primaries

Pfft! You really think the Good Ol Boys method of politicking that the Ds and Rs continually practice would allow for such input from their constituents? If so, I got a bridge up in Brooklyn that Id just love to sell you, bruh.

It's even worse than that.

The Democratic Party has a massive identity crisis, with people of all sorts of conflicting ideology. You've got everything from genuine leftists, liberals, centrists and even moderate Republicans who've been forced out by the GOP's rhetoric.

You've probably got a lot of "Democrats" who align more closely with the average Republican, except for the "slight" difference of not outwardly hating minorities or something.

I bet in a lot of cases it feels like choosing between Lawful/Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil

emblem-man posted...

More local political involvement?

mention this when people say stuff similar to the OP and prepare to be bombarded with excuses for why they can't or shouldn't aspire to that.

Agent_Stroud posted...

You really think the Good Ol Boys method of politicking that the Ds and Rs continually practice would allow for such input from their constituents?

Are you suggesting that in primaries there are votes that are not counted or party members being disenfranchised from voting? Source?

There's not much we can do except vote for candidates who are more progressive in the primaries and vote out Republicans at every chance we get.

DarthAragorn posted...

There's things that can be done

And there are things that can't.

All states get 2 senators regardless of population, and this heavily favors red states.

Will_VIIII posted...

And there are things that can't.

All states get 2 senators regardless of population, and this heavily favors red states.

Some of the things that can be done would address that...

gigageek1500 posted...

Primaries

This. If it weren't for primary voters, in AOC's seat would be a diet pelosi right now.

If you want progressive candidates you have to help them pass the primaries. If your objective is vote blue no matter who then by all means do it but don't complain when the blue choice is shit.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This. If it weren't for primary voters, in AOC's seat would be a diet pelosi right now.

If you want progressive candidates you have to help them pass the primaries. If your objective is vote blue no matter who then by all means do it but don't complain when the blue choice is shit.

no but you dont understand bernie wasn't handed the party nomination on a silver platter so voting in primaries is pointless

DarthAragorn posted...

Some of the things that can be done would address that...

Elimination of winner take all would be one of those things but red states aren't on board with that

DarthAragorn posted...

Some of the things that can be done would address that...

The problem is that the things that can be done to prevent these problems requires the cooperation of the people actively causing them

Jagr_68 posted...

Move to Switzerland.

I missed my chance =\

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

The problem is that the things that can be done to prevent these problems requires the cooperation of the people actively causing them

I'm not talking about using politics

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

The Democratic Party has a massive identity crisis, with people of all sorts of conflicting ideology. You've got everything from genuine leftists, liberals, centrists and even moderate Republicans who've been forced out by the GOP's rhetoric.

You've probably got a lot of "Democrats" who align more closely with the average Republican, except for the "slight" difference of not outwardly hating minorities or something.

THIS.

All the "Socially Liberal, but Fiscally Conservative" Democrats that are perfectly fine with the status quo, as long as their gay friends can still get married and the government is "kinda" doing something about social equality.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It's even worse than that.

The Democratic Party has a massive identity crisis, with people of all sorts of conflicting ideology. You've got everything from genuine leftists, liberals, centrists and even moderate Republicans who've been forced out by the GOP's rhetoric.

You've probably got a lot of "Democrats" who align more closely with the average Republican, except for the "slight" difference of not outwardly hating minorities or something.

I bet in a lot of cases it feels like choosing between Lawful/Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil

Don't forget most Americans have basically been indoctrinated to think their vote is basically worthless and should really expect basically nothing to change in their day-to-day lives, so there is a huge barricade to actually getting anyone to y'know, care.

It literally takes someone comedically over the top and like comedically evil dominating basically every facet of their lives to actually get people to care enough to vote.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It's even worse than that.

The Democratic Party has a massive identity crisis, with people of all sorts of conflicting ideology. You've got everything from genuine leftists, liberals, centrists and even moderate Republicans who've been forced out by the GOP's rhetoric.

You've probably got a lot of "Democrats" who align more closely with the average Republican, except for the "slight" difference of not outwardly hating minorities or something.

Also just going back to this, but you've described literally every successful big tent political party on Earth right here.

DarthAragorn posted...

I'm not talking about using politics

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=340coMA9SzY

Doom_Art posted...

By what measure

The rest of the world, politics in general.

Doom_Art posted...

mention this when people say stuff similar to the OP and prepare to be bombarded with excuses for why they can't or shouldn't aspire to that.

I'm sure I will.

People tend to overlook what can be done at the local level. Obviously there are various policies that we really should have at the federal level. But there are still things to be done below that.

Tote_All_ posted...

The rest of the world

How so? If we're looking at parties in parts of Africa and Southeast Asia Democrats seem pretty center/center-left. If we go to parts of eastern Europe/Russia then same deal. Western Europe is quite a bit more socially democratic in an economic sense but there's many places where the Democrats would be a good deal more left on social and cultural issues, particularly immigration.

I'm not sure why you seem to think the rest of the world is unified in being further to the left than the US, when that's just flat out not true.

Doom_Art posted...

How so? If we're looking at parties in parts of Africa and Southeast Asia Democrats seem pretty center/center-left. If we go to parts of eastern Europe/Russia then same deal. Western Europe is quite a bit more socially democratic in an economic sense but there's many places where the Democrats would be a good deal more left on social and cultural issues, particularly immigration.

I'm not sure why you seem to think the rest of the world is unified in being further to the left than the US, when that's just flat out not true.

It's understated how casually racist a large part of Europe is

Im glad we at least have reasonable minds like Doom_Art here to defend the Democrats from being unfairly characterized, with all the good they have done for their constituents and fighting against Republicans they truly deserve it

The plan is to vote 3rd party so they can get funding to get on stage to debate and we can end this two party system.

Problem is most of them have been whack along with the mindset that voting 3rd party is a waste.

I'd be ok with having an alternative democratic voting system ironed out on at local systems and slowly adapted by the Presidental election. America has so much potential, but people are so scared/don't want to try different things.

Doom_Art posted...

How so? If we're looking at parties in parts of Africa and Southeast Asia Democrats seem pretty center/center-left. If we go to parts of eastern Europe/Russia then same deal. Western Europe is quite a bit more socially democratic in an economic sense but there's many places where the Democrats would be a good deal more left on social and cultural issues, particularly immigration.

I'm not sure why you seem to think the rest of the world is unified in being further to the left than the US, when that's just flat out not true.

You're entirely misunderstanding the point.

The US Democratic party is a center right party. Other Democratic parties around the world being actual center or center-left simply enforces this point.

Let me make it clearer. If you placed every single party around the world on a oversimplified Left-Right spectrum, US Democrats would land on center right or straight up right.

Slaya4 posted...

The plan is to vote 3rd party so they can get funding to get on stage to debate and we can end this two party system.

Problem is most of them have been whack along with the mindset that voting 3rd party is a waste.

I'd be ok with having an alternative democratic voting system ironed out on at local systems and slowly adapted by the Presidental election. America has so much potential, but people are so scared/don't want to try different things.

Voting third party right now is a fantastic way to ensure fascist rule.

3rd party voting is how we ended up where we are in many aspects of the present.

I'm not against more parties at all though, but in the US we'd need ranked voting implemented nationwide first for it to be feasible and IIRC only 1 state has that and it was a recent addition.

Tote_All_ posted...

You're entirely misunderstanding the point.

The US Democratic party is a center right party. Other Democratic parties around the world being actual center or center-left simply enforces this point.

Let me make it clearer. If you placed every single party around the world on a oversimplified Left-Right spectrum, US Democrats would land on center right or straight up right.

so basically you admit that the axis through which you're measuring politics is extremely oversimplified and probably incorrect?

emblem-man posted...

I'm sure I will.

People tend to overlook what can be done at the local level. Obviously there are various policies that we really should have at the federal level. But there are still things to be done below that.

There's more corruption, nepotism, and backscratching BS on the local level than any other tier of governement.

bigblu89 posted...

There's more corruption, nepotism, and backscratching BS on the local level than any other tier of governement.

all the more reason to get involved?

bigblu89 posted...

There's more corruption, nepotism, and backscratching BS on the local level than any other tier of governement.

Not going to argue about it that's true or not, but even if it were, federal politicians tend to come up through local politics.
So involvement in picking good local people would help in federal election as well.

Tote_All_ posted...

You're entirely misunderstanding the point.

The US Democratic party is a center right party. Other Democratic parties around the world being actual center or center-left simply enforces this point.

Let me make it clearer. If you placed every single party around the world on a oversimplified Left-Right spectrum, US Democrats would land on center right or straight up right.

The Democrats aren't exactly one party. It's a chimera of moderate conservatives, liberals, and progressives who are unified only in their opposition to the Republicans.

Doom_Art posted...

all the more reason to get involved?

To become a cog in that machine, or to try to actually stop it from happeneing?

Good luck on option 2.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

The Democratic Party has a massive identity crisis, with people of all sorts of conflicting ideology. You've got everything from genuine leftists, liberals, centrists and even moderate Republicans who've been forced out by the GOP's rhetoric.

You've probably got a lot of "Democrats" who align more closely with the average Republican, except for the "slight" difference of not outwardly hating minorities or something.

Yep. "Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen" vs. A group hyper-focused on the wants of rich White men

Direct action throughout history has always been more effective at accomplishing real lasting change than voting.

Jagr_68 posted...

Hmmm, horseshoe theory or ratchet effect...which sounds less shitty

Which is better

Horseshoe Theory is accurate until you get to the people on the right who want to make members of specific minority groups nonexistent. There's nothing on the left to compare to that.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Direct action throughout history has always been more effective at accomplishing real lasting change than voting.

Pictured below: Change by direct action instead of voting

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/1/AARLwzAADgL1.jpg

Tyranthraxus posted...

Pictured below: Change by direct action instead of voting

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/1/AARLwzAADgL1.jpg

The 2016 U.S. General Election, picturized.

Slaya4 posted...

The plan is to vote 3rd party so they can get funding to get on stage to debate and we can end this two party system.

Problem is most of them have been whack along with the mindset that voting 3rd party is a waste.

I'd be ok with having an alternative democratic voting system ironed out on at local systems and slowly adapted by the Presidental election. America has so much potential, but people are so scared/don't want to try different things.

First we need better ballot access laws (e.g. here in Arizona, the GOP-led legislature made it so that the Greens have easier access to the ballot than the Libertarians. There was another state, Texas I think, where the Democrats blocked ballot access for the Greens a while back)

and also move to a better voting system (ranked choice for example)

The issue is people are naive enough to think that just by voting for a democrat in a single election every 2/4 years is enough.

• Vote in local elections to ensure your state is run by people you support.
• Put pressure on politicians at all levels to support greater access to voting and more modern voting practices like rank choice voting.
• Create ballot measures in state that will allow for greater access to voting and more representation of other political parties.

Right now in the US, third party voting is neither adequate nor appropriate. It's why you see republicans backing green party candidates in certain states to help dilute democratic candidates.

pistachio12 posted...

The issue is people are naive enough to think that just by voting for a democrat in a single election every 2/4 years is enough.

Seriously lol

In terms of "what can I do to help?" voting is absolutely the bare minimum and most people don't even do it regularly. ESPECIALLY younger people.

If you put in next to no effort at your job then you're not getting promoted.