Board 8 > ITT I re-watch the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) (spoilers, obviously)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

That clearly wasnt Vankos bird

I know! The first two times she asked about it I was surprised but the third time she was mostly joking. I have no idea why she was so hung up on it.

Concerning Daredevil, he's always been one of my favorite Marvel heroes growing up. I thought his comics were mostly great. I had read the Frank Miller ones multiple times, specifically, and Bullseye quickly became my favorite Marvel villain. So when I got this movie I was... mostly enjoying it. I could recognize a lot of it sucked but I had live action Daredevil so I was mostly content. I really enjoyed Colin Farrell's unhinged Bullseye performance. I was very jazzed with how Bullseye killing Elektra was so similar to the scene in the comics. This movie had a ton of the stuff I really liked about Bullseye. And Michael Clark Duncan played a great Kingpin as well. That scream he lets out when Daredevil beats him in the end sticks with me. Really great work on his part. (RIP)

On rewatches it's a mess of a film that tries to include way too much. What stands out to me is how bad Elektra is done in this movie. Poor Elektra barely resembles her comic counterpart in appearance or personality. And while in the comics the Bullseye and Elektra fights works a lot better, this one she feels completely outclassed. It feels almost cruel in a bad way (and I say this loving how cruel Bullseye can get in comics) just because of how much he puts her through. It feels like bullying the way he just demolishes her in their fight and I feel like at the very least Elektra should have gotten more hits in or something, or have looked a hell of a lot better as a fighter in the movie previously.

It's essentially the epitome of a 2000's superhero movie. Very bad for a lot of reasons. But it gave me live action Bullseye so I can appreciate it for that.

Yeah even from what little I saw of it it seemed like it was trying too hard to be edgy. Apparently Elektra's screentime was beefed up in the theatrical cut to advertise a spinoff film, so I guess that's hardly a new development.

Daredevil was a fun movie for it's time. Got pretty hyped for it when it first came out wanted to see if for sure. Watched it about 10 years afterwards and I was like wat. MCD was a great Kingpin choice, I enjoyed Bullseye and I think that was about it. Everything else just makes me shake my head, especially the playground scene. I get Catwoman basketball court vibes from it.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Yeah even from what little I saw of it it seemed like it was trying too hard to be edgy. Apparently Elektra's screentime was beefed up in the theatrical cut to advertise a spinoff film, so I guess that's hardly a new development.

Why. Why do you still do this after so many years and want opinions on stuff you haven't properly seen.

More meant that the "epitome of 2000's superhero movies" commented sounded about right based on what I saw.

I like Iron Man 2 well enough for it to be my 4th favorite Phase 1 movie but man, trying to do Avengers setup co-exist with the self contained story of the movie is a mess

Fury literally shows up with a magic Deus ex machina syringe that pauses the central conflict poisoning threat for no great reason. Sucks the tension right out of that entire thing.

Theres lots of great SUBTLE universe building done in the movie, but the inclusion of Natasha detracts far more than it enhances

Poor perpetually underused Black Widow. At least Scarlett Johansson is somehow maintaining a stronger overall acting career than most of her Avengers co-stars (which is another reason the Black Widow salary problem pissed me off), very good for an actress pushing 40 who derives a lot of fame from playing a comic book character. Although given Black Widow is more believable (if that's the word) than most such characters and comic book movies generally being a pretty big deal nowadays it's probably more conventional wisdom spoken.

Very proud of her. By this point she probably only derives as much fame from her looks as Harrison Ford did at her age.

Captain America 1 write-up late tonight or tomorrow!

The birth of the most handsome MCU couple of Steve and Peggy!

Captain America: The First Avenger
Release Date: July 22, 2011
Stand-Out Character: Captain America/Steve Rogers (played by Chris Evans)
Best Scene: Captain America vs. Red Skull & Hydra on Aircraft

Captain America's first venture has a lot of good to it, but it seems lacking in some areas. It's also a lot crazier than I remembered.

Steve Rogers is a scrawny geek who wants to join the U.S. Army. Eventually, a scientist enlists him due to his persistence and then gives him a super soldier serum to turn him into the ruggedly handsome and strong soldier. Meanwhile, the villainous super nazi Red Skull has a plan to win World War II by using the Tesseract which grants him a great amount of power. Rogers eventually proves his worth by saving a group of kidnapped soldiers before leading the charge against Red Skull. Eventually, Captain America sacrifices himself to stop Red Skull from dropping a super powered nuke on top of America and ends up frozen until present day.

I love a lot of this movie, because it really makes you appreciate Steve Rogers. It's honestly astounding how well Chris Evans plays this character. He is such a definitive hero here and it's not even close. You see him from humble beginnings and the script is so good at making you root for Cap. This movie sets forth Captain America being such a great character in the MCU, and it doesn't get enough credit for that. His scenes with Dr. Erskine in particular are tremendous.

The entire main cast is really great at what they do. Stanley Tucci plays Dr. Erskine who helps support the idea that it's all about heart to a pessimistic Colonel Phillips (played by Tommy Lee Jones). One scene that sticks out is how Phillips is talking about how Rogers doesn't have what it takes and tosses down that grenade, only for Rogers being the only one to jump on it. And then everything leading up to the super soldier scene, and the encouragement and care that Haley Atwell's Peggy Carter shows is wonderful. And then her further bold encouragement is perfect too, where she goes from treating Rogers with more care when he's fragile to treating him like the strong man he is when he's got the super soldier serum.

If Steve Rogers wasn't so strong in this movie, Peggy Carter would absolutely be my stand-out for this movie. Peggy moves so much of this movie along and supplements Steve's character so well. Without her, this movie is so much weaker. She never feels like she's not a strong enough character on her own either. It's really sad that she's secluded to this one movie (cameos aside) because she's such a great character. Oh and Howard Stark played by Dominic Cooper was fun too. Not much else to say there.

There are so many wonderful steps from the moment Steve is recruited, to becoming the super soldier, to taking down the assassin, and then taking charge to infiltrate and rescue the soldiers from Red Skull. Perfect character escalation. We see him go through the whole story to become a proper hero, tied with a bow at the end where he sacrifices himself to save the United States, doing exactly what he said he was willing to do from the start. It's really, really a perfect origin story.

The problem comes from what happens in between. The parts from Cap's Howling Commandos rescue to the end are just not nearly as strong as everything else that centers around Steve's development. Despite having Hugo Weaving deliver a great performance as Red Skull with plenty of great moments, he's a character that absolutely needed to be around for another film... which we sadly never got. I'm just flat out not in love with everything Red Skull does in general, and I think that it becomes a little bit more meandering as Cap and the crew are dismantling Hydra to get to him. It really does feel like the movie is just a little too long.

Shout outs to Toby Jones' Arnim Zola btw. He really sells how horrific Red Skull is to the point where even he seems horrified by him in most scenes at his brutality. His performance, as small as it may be, is really masterful. Hugo Weaving does a great job selling the terror of Red Skull too, while being oddly suave at the same time? Like casually just getting into his getaway jet and then tossing his nazi keys to Zola and saying "Don't scratch ze paint" so Zola can drive away in his nazi car. I think they worked a little bit too hard trying to make Red Skull come across as "cool". I think maybe just focus on sticking with the horrible super nazi stuff.

Bucky feels, uh, in a word underutilized as well. Sebastian Stan also didn't seem like he really understood the character too much, and it wasn't his best performance. His death is super anti-climatic and not really interesting? Granted we all know what it turns into, so it all works out in the end, but it's worth mentioning.

Now earlier I mentioned that this movie is actually crazy. I completely forgot about the freaking Tesseract laser rifles and super powered suits and everything. Does anyone remember THE VAPORIZING LASER TANK? I didn't remember this! And I feel like that's something I should definitely remember! There's a lot of really cool things that I just really forgot about, but it all kind of blends together into that mush of action I was talking about that's far less interesting. Oh, and the last scene? Where Cap is literally JUMPING FROM JET TO JET as he chases down the Hydra carrier. And then the whole vaporizing scene with the Tesseract? It's all complete madness that I completely forgot how absolutely outrageous it was. It's actually all really fun! But... it doesn't feel like it's enough to carry that part of the movie? It's weird.

Like I bet when you guys think back to Captain America you remember the grenade scene, the super soldier transformation, the song and dance numbers. I doubt you all remember the fight scenes in between as much. It's a movie carried by the story of Steve Rogers with the backdrop of a World War II sci-fi setting. And that's actually really fine, honestly. Without this characterization of Cap, we don't get the tremendous character that is Captain America in the MCU.

So yeah, I enjoy this movie. But it's really a struggle to say how much I really enjoy it, because it feels so lopsided. But I always remember the great scenes with Steve Rogers, so I can at least appreciate it for that.

Oh, somehow more jarring than anything is how the end credits scene for this movie is a straight up, full on commercial for The Avengers. Just a complete commercial, not a teaser or anything. It's wild.

Girlfriend Thoughts: She has always really liked Cap and enjoyed seeing him here. She definitely liked all of the Rogers stuff a lot more than the war stuff. She also loved the song and dance number and I felt compelled to show her the Captain America punching Hitler cover. She was bored throughout this though, and I don't necessarily blame her. She thought Red Skull looked horrifying, and I kind of agree. He had really good effects. Her reaction to Bucky "dying" was more or less "Wait, that's what happened?" She refused to believe that Neal McDonough's character was named Dum Dum Dugan. She also said she wished that Peggy and Steve got together. I reminded her they kind of did.

Everyone shits on modern day MCU effects, but pre-transformation Steve is incredibly done, both in effects and acting. I never even doubted he was real, and it wasnt until after the movie that I realized it must have been some special effect.

The Red Skull effects are also great

Shout out to one brilliant shot in particular that sticks with me: Steve not quite measuring up in the soldier propaganda mirror. I love how that tells an entire story in one image.

Also Peggy is asking a lot for anyone to turn down a flirtatious Natalie Dormer. You know youd lock lips too, Peg!

yeah cap1 is pretty good

It is literally "too dark" though, in that it is sometimes I feel like the backgrounds blend into either a beige or blue/gray blob

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like I bet when you guys think back to Captain America you remember the grenade scene, the super soldier transformation, the song and dance numbers. I doubt you all remember the fight scenes in between as much. It's a movie carried by the story of Steve Rogers with the backdrop of a World War II sci-fi setting

I certainly don't remember any energy tank that's for sure!

That's actually kind of true I guess? Mostly I get a kick out of the bad guys being a splinter faction of the Nazis too evil even for them - like Black and White morality taken to an extreme. I know HYDRA became a major part of the MCU's mythos later on though.

Tesseract weapons are even weirder in hindsight.

Since they are powered by the space stone they presumably aren't actually vaporizing anything, they are teleporting the people/things hit.

Like somewhere in space a bunch of soldiers and stuff from WW2 are just floating around.

Maniac64 posted...

Tesseract weapons are even weird in hindsight.

Since they are powered by the space stone the presumably aren't actually vaporizing anything, they are teleporting the people/things hit.

Like somewhere in space a bunch of soldiers and stuff from WW2 are just floating around.

I actually really like this idea lol

most_games_r_ok posted...

I certainly don't remember any energy tank that's for sure!

Dum Dum Dugan pilots a laser tank that vaporizes people and nobody remembers it.

It's crazy.

I love the first Captain America movie - Cap's journey is very compelling, and Peggy is exceptional. By far the best love interest, and she's much more than that. She could be the hero herself - which is why she actually has been on at least three different occasions. I'm actually a bit confused why you mention she just has some cameos - do you know about all of her appearances?

The Red Skull is really great for most of the movie - but he feels a bit superflous towards the end. Overall the third act is a lot weaker - I kinda dislike the Tesserect technology - it just feels too space age and not WWII era with a strong energy source. I wish they had put a bit more effort towards making the guns feel a little more of a fusion between futuristic and the technology of the era - maybe a bit more steam punk.

Just feels completely off seeing all these WWII soldiers running around and some just get vaporized by these space guns.

CoolCly posted...

I'm actually a bit confused why you mention she just has some cameos - do you know about all of her appearances?

I mean, she doesn't have any other major appearances outside of her show. Or at least I don't consider them major in any way.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Speaking of Farrell, what do you think of the Affleck Daredevil movie? I was channel-surfing one day and decided to see how much of it I could tolerate. I stopped once an ad break came up but it didn't seem too bad; if anything it was strangely prescient of the Nolan Batman movies in terms of trying to take itself more seriously than the norm. Doesn't help Ben Affleck would go on to play the Caped Crusader himself later on, so seeing him playing a superhero who picks off his foes from the shadows creates an eerie effect. Seeing Jon Favreau in the movie was kind of interesting as well, especially in light of his brief interaction with the MCU's Daredevil in No Way Home.

The Director's Cut is on Youtube. The theatrical release is a bit of a mess and the love story scenes are all jumbled up. Director's Cut adds more story and fixes the timing of things so ot works as a much better movie.

My headcanon is that if Daredevil wasn't messed with as much as it was by studio executives, Favreau wouldn't have neen nearly as strong in his vision with Iron Man and we may not have had the MCU as it is.

IIRC Favreau specifically stated one of his main influences on Iron Man was Batman Begins, so that kind of checks out.

Watching Avengers!

Lets see how well this holds up. I feel that the original definitely holds up less well compared to other Avengers movies but maybe that's just me.

Part of the appeal of the first film is just the joy that yes, this is really happening. It revels in it and that's great then but makes the film a bit more simple.

Kind of like the first Star Trek movie that spent a lot of time going "check out these effects, it's the spaceship from the outside! Is that cool or what?"

Even disregarding the crossover aspect, the first Avengers felt like the kind of big blockbuster every film studio deserves to me. I felt Tom Hiddleston as Loki was the MVP of the film.

The Avengers
Release Date: May 4, 2012
Stand-Out Character: Loki (played by Tom Hiddleston)
Best Scene: The Avengers vs. Chitauri (Post-Money Shot)

Controversial opinion (not really): Avengers holds up extremely well. The long of it is that Avengers is such an awesome film that does literally everything right and I have minimal complaints. It's really a great film I can watch any time and still be enamored by it.

I might as well start by addressing Joss Whedon, the film's director. He's scum, and I think we can all agree on that given what's come out about him, and it feels a little bit bad complimenting him, but I feel like I kind of have to, and I'll get it out of the way immediately. It's really difficult to avoid, because he's really an amazing visionary for this film. I don't know how many other directors can take The Avengers and all of these pieces and then come out making a film that does justice to (almost) all of them and gives such an awesome and fun experience.

There's such a perfect handle on all of these characters, and you can really feel they understand each of them perfectly from Maria Hill to Iron Man. Not a single thing feels off here, and their interactions are fun, awesome, and feel personal to those characters. Their banter works entirely well but doesn't undercut any drama. I love that this film adds to every single character we've seen and they all come out more fleshed out and interesting as a result.

I legitimately struggled to decide who would be the stand-out, and I'll get to that character, but I want to talk about Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury first, because I almost gave it to him. This character is so actualized it's mind-blowing. His motivations, his role, his personality is all so well-done for this film. All of SHIELD is such a great addition here and really fits in well in this world. Nick Fury as a central piece makes the entire film work and without him I think it's much weaker.

Iron Man gets a focus by having other people to bounce off of and joke with, while bringing plenty of drama and seriousness to the role to prove himself an actual hero and a smart dude. The scene where he works on the turbine on the helicarrier is wonderful, and stuff like that is the creativity I wish we had more of in these films instead of just nonstop battles and fights: heroes using their wits and abilities to save the day without punching someone in the face.

Captain America comes out in the world with his strong sense of moral justice and his humanity is impeccable as we watch him become a living legend all over again: it's just how he's built. That's the kind of person he is, and he does a great job leading the crew.

Thor has some really, really good scenes that build off his movie. Where he talks with Loki and they have a tragic heart-to-heart about their situation, and Thor gets to have serious moments where we see him wanting peace and to stop his brother from going too far.

Hulk gets every god damned thing you need. I think I would have liked the Incredible Hulk style more, because Banner Hulk face doesn't do it for me, but Mark Ruffalo does a great job in this movie. I feel like his performance as Hulk kind of diminishes from what I really care about the character. As in, he's a torture man barely keeping it together, but seems happy to be able to let loose with his alter-ego to help for a change. I really appreciate you being able to be afraid of Hulk and enamored with his strength still rather than having him be a silly green strong man like he currently is.

Black Widow gets to use her wits and subterfuge well, as well as trying to find alternate methods to succeed and win. We also delve into her own past where she wants to escape her demons that she created on her way. Scarlett Johanson really stepped up her game with this movie, I suspect because they had a much more solid idea for her character. She gets it better than in Iron Man 2.

Hawkeye has a USB Arrow.

The core Avengers all really work incredibly well together and in scenes where they talk with one another, you can really get a solid idea for who all of them are. The script is really fantastic.

But let's talk about the guy who ties this all together: Loki. Tom Hiddleston is cold, vicious, ravenous, and hungry for success in this role. He makes everything better. He's smart and has set himself up for success and doesn't care what he has to do in order to get his. If you had to pick a single character from the movies to be the villain in Avengers, Loki is the guy. Picking up where Thor left off, he's even more of a threat. Scenes where he is allowed to just let loose and talk about his ambitions and tear down those across from him are just astounding to witness. Hiddleston is just such an impeccable actor. And even though the movie is less about him in the final act, as a catalyst for everything, he performs admirably.

And I guess I need to address the film itself. Loki steals the Tesseract and uses it to summon an alien invasion in order to take over Earth before the Avengers stop them. That's it. It's so simple but padded with such meaningful and cool scenes. No complicated plot or anything and it works so well. It really feels more like a character piece for each character, and Hawkeye is there. But because of that, it really solidifies these characters into what we really love about all of them.

I don't think the franchise is a success without this movie being what it was. It showed the value of crossovers like these, and it let the characters be more than just the contained universes they're in. You can relate to them more as they riff on each other. All of these very different characters just work seamlessly together in a single film and it's wonderful to behold.

Specific things I would like to touch on is that my favorite scene is definitely after Hulk drops by and the fight against the Chitauri is really moving. Everyone gets something to do in that scene and the helicarrier fight scene and it's great. Just seeing them all work together is great, after we slowly build up to them getting together as a team: because they know what they need to do to succeed. They feel legitimately heroic, moreso than they ever did in their original films. They take on impossible threats, do incredible things, and don't let up at all. It's action-packed, doesn't let up, and it keeps you enthralled through it all.

Other notable scenes are Fury talking about Coulson's sacrifice to Cap and Iron Man, Iron Man vs. Thor (vs. Cap), the scene where they're bickering under the influence of Loki's staff, and the helicarrier battle.

I know I'm kind of not focusing on anything in particular, but I think this film is hard to in a good way. It's about the characters more than it is the film in general. If I spent time talking about my favorite moments I'd be listing them out forever. I said it before, but this movie is practically perfect in its simplicity. The moving parts all work, the cast is just tremendous, and it gives all of the awesome action you need to tie it all together.

My one complaint is that the Chitauri just fucking die once their mother ship blows up. lol What the fuck is that they just fall over dead come on. I know it's hard to come up with something better to wrap things up BUT COME ON.

There, I'm done. Go watch Avengers, and also post your favorite stuff from this movie so I don't need to talk about them individually in this post.

Theyre a hive-mind right? I can buy that if you blow up the actual hive then they die

Coulson's death was a missed opportunity to introduce LMDs imo.

It was Age of Ultron that began the disaster dominos leading up to Whedon's fall from grace. Even at the time executive meddling was (correctly) blamed for a lot of Age of Ultron's problems, but then when the similarly-meddled theatrical cut of Justice League came out people started to catch on to the problems with Whedon's writing.

Also find it interesting how Iron Man 3 director Shane Black and Thor: The Dark World's originally-assigned director Patty Jenkins have undergone similar career trajectories since leaving the MCU, with both putting out one critically-acclaimed film (The Nice Guys and Wonder Woman) and one real dud that made people begin to question their talent (The Predator and Wonder Woman 1984).

My controversial opinion is that the MCU still hasn't outdone The Avengers.

Yes the plot is simple, but to me that works to its strength. I love that you can just watch it and fully understand it in a vacuum. All the origin movies work to build hype, but ultimately they aren't necessary whatsoever to follow this movie because it doesn't need any knowledge beyond what it gives you.

I do think the MCU is managing to deal with its own weight pretty well by keeping casts smaller in the non-avengers offerings as most movies have been the starring hero with a guest at most, but to me the other Avengers movies are just too bloated in terms of cast size and how much you need to track to be able to watch them (and Ultron is just bad). That's not to say I don't love Infinity War but it feels like a bit of an endeavor to watch it whereas The Avengers I can just pop it in and watch at any time.

It's just walking that perfect line of hype building from previous movies without needing them that I really appreciate

And everyone who gets screentime is crucially important and not just there for the ride. Meanwhile you've just got a simple conflict with the best villain the MCU has the offer and a nice mesh of personalities to take him on. There isn't a huge quipfest going on non-stop like later entries because Iron Man is really the only jokey character in the movie, and that's a good thing because it lets the film keep the proper weight throughout while still having its share of humor.

Like I dunno-- I still love the MCU but part of me does feel that it's veered a bit off from what my ideal vision of the franchise is over the years. Like on the whole yeah Phase 3 is my favorite so I'm not saying it's not getting better over time, but for me it's not really carried by Infinity War/Endgame or anything. They're just getting better at the smaller scale offerings, but the large scale offerings are your bread and butter and they've never done better than their first shot at it.

But that's just me-- well aware most people prefer Infinity War/Endgame. And I do love Infinity War as well (Endgame is probably what made me really feel like the franchise is getting too bloated, not a huge fan-- it's fine) but yeah.

The Avengers was a great movie. I remember hearing about it before it came out and was thinking how they could get so many characters together onscreen and make it work. Wild to think about all the ensemble movies that came out since then.

The Avengers is probably my favorite of the four but I feel like it, Infinity War, and Endgame are all comparable in quality.

BlackDra90n posted...

The Avengers was a great movie. I remember hearing about it before it came out and was thinking how they could get so many characters together onscreen and make it work. Wild to think about all the ensemble movies that came out since then.

I was trying to get this across in the other topic, oh well.

Jakyl25 posted...

Theyre a hive-mind right? I can buy that if you blow up the actual hive then they die

I mean I looked it up and apparently they are, but if there was a line in the movie about it then I completely missed it and I'm sure most other people missed it too. It's still silly to watch them all fall over dead after all that, and I remember Joss Whedon saying in the director's commentary "Yes, I know that it seems like kind of a stretch for the Chitauri to just all fall over, but it was the only way for us to get to have the rest of the moments with them victorious."

most_games_r_ok posted...

Coulson's death was a missed opportunity to introduce LMDs imo.

Yeah, we're supposed to get Coulson again in Secret Invasion if I remember right, but I really don't think Coulson's death is all that impactful in that movie. It gives us the awesome moment of Fury using it to his advantage to get Iron Man and Cap fired up on the same page, but I think there's more value in keeping him around and not in a spin-off TV show that may or may not be canon.

Lopen posted...

There isn't a huge quipfest going on non-stop like later entries because Iron Man is really the only jokey character in the movie, and that's a good thing because it lets the film keep the proper weight throughout while still having its share of humor.

i really like thor in this movie because he's mostly serious but he still gets in a good joke with "he's adopted."

i know everyone loves ragnarok but i kinda miss the days when thor wasn't a non-stop joke machine.

So I actually love Ragnarok and don't mind the amount of humor in it

But it's important to realize where the humor is being used. Thor is very jokey in Jeff Goldblumland but when he has to deal with Hela it's all business. A movie having a straight up lighthearted arc like Jeff Goldblumland is not a bad thing especially if not every movie has one. But I want it to be able to be turned off too when the story says we need to be serious.

I actually think Endgame was what started Thor down the weird path with fat Thor. I certainly don't think Ragnarok did any real damage (Thor wasn't even very jokey in Infinity War it just felt that way because he was hanging out with the Guardians so much) but Endgame into Love and Thunder has me concerned with his character's direction.

But yeah "he's adopted" is a great example of why Avengers is just so good at balancing the characters and the humor. Iron Man is the only one constantly doing it but they all get their moments when context merits it, so they all get their time for their charisma to show. Captain America with "put on the suit" when the ship gets attacked after he's arguing with Iron Man is another good example-- heck even PUNY GOD is a good example despite being one of the funniest moments in the film.

Oh I forgot Girlfriend Thoughts:

She really liked The Avengers. Not much else to say. She thought it was awesome. There's actually not much else to say because we were both enthralled by the movie and didn't actually talk too much during it.

She was very sad Coulson died though. And then was shocked Fury lied about the cards. She also enjoyed Hulk a lot and him throwing Loki around got her good. The Cap solo scenes in the final fight got her really excited too.

We both agreed that Cap's helmet was absolutely the dorkiest thing and it's great they went away from that.

She also wanted to rewind to see the Hawkeye exploding arrow at Loki scene a second time. I personally adore that scene too because it's Hawkeye's best moment. I love that.

*gasp* Nick FuryLIED?! Well I never

Jakyl25 posted...

Theyre a hive-mind right? I can buy that if you blow up the actual hive then they die

Yeah that definitely got ripped off from Enders Game.

I'm also one of the people who likes the first Avengers the best.

I wish more of the MCU movies had the simple plot and character focus of Avengers. I think Guardians 1 is actual similar, just keep the Macguffin from Ronan then try and stop him from killing a planet.

Avengers 1 is a true classic

As someone who was big into the MCU until Civil War but kinda fell off afterwards

Thanoss motives in Avengers dont really make sense given his later actions and desires. I realize at the time they were still working under the assumption that he was literally courting Death like in the comics, but they eventually discarded that aspect.

Did they ever retroactively explain why he would just hand over an Infinity Stone to someone like Loki and risk losing it (which he temporarily did)

Well I think they retroactively justify it a bit more by having The Ancient One in New York in Endgame. You could reasonably assume Thanos knew the Time Stone was there and was going to try to get it in the chaos. So he's basically gambling the Mind Stone in Loki's Staff for the Space Stone in the Tesseract and the Ancient One's Time Stone. Two for one.

If he just comes out and goes hard on it it raises flags, but if you play it off that Loki was making a play to conquer earth he could probably continue to gather stones undetected.

At least that's always how I always interpreted his plot. I don't know if that was intent from the beginning or this is just retroactively justifying it but I never had a problem with it. He could also be underestimating Loki in general and thinking Loki wouldn't realize the power of the objects he had.

I dont really have a problem with it, it just clearly wasnt the direction at the time and I was curious if they justified it.

Heck Im not even sure the scepter being the Mind Stone was the plan yet. They had to do a tie in comic to explain how the scepter got from the Battle of New York to Von Struckers lab <_<

Right. Well like I said I think having the Time Stone there in Endgame was their attempt to further justify it as a gambit-- but that could just be me reaching. I don't think anything else was really put in place to rationalize it.

I will say on that note I was thoroughly disappointed that the plot of the first arc of Loki was not Loki trying to collect infinity stones to save himself from getting killed by Thanos.

A Loki with future sight from the TVA telling him what's going to happen armed with TVA time travel could easily grab 3 infinity stones at New York right there. In fact part of me was expecting that to happen in Endgame itself, alternate timeline Loki meddling somehow to help overcome Thanos since he gets away. But oh well. Just a random lead in to a spinoff show works too.

But this is me meandering into content you probably haven't even seen if you dropped off after Civil War-- sorry. Loki is my version of LMS talking about random bad youtubers.

I love the first Avengers movie. I think it's nearly perfect, and every line of dialogue is so good at moving things along while characterizing everybody and having them act exactly like they should based on the prior movies and for what they are experiencing now. After my rant about how Wanda's continuity is broken in the other topic - this is the opposite. Every character feels exactly like they should from where they left off in their own movies, which is one of the biggest accomplishments this movie could have had.

Also - this is a great video going through every piece of just one or two scenes from Avengers - but I feel like the whole movie is this good

Spoilers for the Black Widow move in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iHzRB3gXZM

Jakyl25 posted...

Thanoss motives in Avengers dont really make sense given his later actions and desires. I realize at the time they were still working under the assumption that he was literally courting Death like in the comics, but they eventually discarded that aspect.

it always felt weird to me how they seemed to put the pieces in place for a movie that would have been closer to the infinity gauntlet comic - they hinted at death in avengers, adam warlock in guardians of the galaxy 2 - but then they discarded those pieces in infinity war.

Lopen posted...

A Loki with future sight from the TVA telling him what's going to happen armed with TVA time travel could easily grab 3 infinity stones at New York right there. In fact part of me was expecting that to happen in Endgame itself, alternate timeline Loki meddling somehow to help overcome Thanos since he gets away. But oh well. Just a random lead in to a spinoff show works too.

Or he could have just grabbed a full set of infinity stones from a drawer in the TVA and taken them with him.

Or we could have just not done the TVA at all because it's the most boring thing they could have done with Loki.

Maniac64 posted...

Or he could have just grabbed a full set of infinity stones from a drawer in the TVA and taken them with him.

Eh that's boring though

I just think Loki trying to collect Infinity stones would be a great plot and what I was hoping we'd get was a story about that. Loki actually getting them I'm not so sure about. It's probably better if he fails.

But yeah that concept is probably doable without the TVA existing as Loki is still in 2012 in the show and knows where the staff is.

Man if he goes back for the staff and encounters The Ancient One all this could happen. The Ancient One replacing the TVA would totally fix Loki

Anyway enough fantasy booking Loki I guess. I just get so frustrated with that show.

My hot take is that Avengers 1 is extremely overrated. The New York battle is great, but the first half fares worse, and I think the beginning is extremely rough. The entire beginning with Fury/Hill/Evil Hawkeye sucks and I don't go for Loki and Cap's cheesy as hell kneel scene.

Whedon definitely does a good BW, and I like his Hulk but I think everyone else's dialogue is annoyingly "Whedon-ed" (this is admittedly much worse in AoU).

Everything in New York (and the Helicarrier too) is pretty good, which is half the movie, so it's still by and large an upper-tier MCU flick, but I don't think it's better than Iron Man. It's about the same level as Cap 1 and I'm not sure which is better. It's only overrated because many people still consider this to be the best MCU movie and that is WILD to me.

Also Cap looks bad in this one.

Its funny to me that they explained The Avengers as a group name being intended to represent avenging Coulson, but none of the current Avengers ever met him