Current Events > Beat The Last of Us Part II (lots of spoilers prob) - GOAT game?

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Zithers
09/25/22 9:34:32 PM
#1:


This one was on sale for $20 like two months ago and I had played the TLOU PS4 remaster earlier this year for the first time and thought it was fine (I didn't game for the PS4 gen or much of PS3). Too much of it boiled down to hallway shootouts and the story which everyone loved was pretty whatever to me... basically a sad dad/girl finding new people to be stand-ins for their lost loved ones, but with zombie apocalypse dressings. Kinda seemed like a generic story you'd see in a wannabe prestige TV show. The only interesting part of the story is the very end when Ellie just has to accept that she has no choice but to believe Joel's story.

Anyway.

TLOU2 - serious upgrade. Loved how the combat areas expanded a ton and gave you a lot of options when it came to taking out bad guys. And the story is probably legit the only good story I've encountered since I started gaming again. It really builds off of that one interesting moment in TLOU and crafts something great. The level of detail, the writing, and large open areas make it a truly immersive and superb experience. I think the only challenger it has from the games I've gone and played from the PS4 backlog so far is Outer Wilds.

What does CE think?

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#2
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Zithers
09/25/22 9:49:47 PM
#3:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


disagree with each of your points basically

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Jeff_AKA_Snoopy
09/25/22 9:52:00 PM
#4:


I loved it.

The main problem my wife had with it is that you play as a fairly unlikeable character for half the run time and while yes, excellent story telling can follow people who are not likeable, it does make it hard for some people to get into it if they aren't really "rooting for anyone" anymore.

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GameGodOfAll
09/25/22 9:54:18 PM
#5:


Phenomenal game and story.

Only actual thing I can see criticizing it for is the pacing. The one shift does shake you up as intended, but it goes on for too long just wanting to get back to where you left off.

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Zithers
09/25/22 9:56:23 PM
#6:


Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
I loved it.

The main problem my wife had with it is that you play as a fairly unlikeable character for half the run time and while yes, excellent story telling can follow people who are not likeable, it does make it hard for some people to get into it if they aren't really "rooting for anyone" anymore.

i do wish there was more time spent with Ellie at the end - Santa Barbara is like sub 2 hours instead of the length of a day in Seattle which was like 4ish hours each. its not a perfect game by any means (it peaks for example with Ellie day 3 or Abby day 2 imo) but the highs are so high that it's hard for me to focus on the negatives too much.

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g0ldie
09/25/22 10:18:29 PM
#7:


yea, I agree that it's a GOAT game.

it took a lot of risks with its narrative, and I feel it was very rewarding as a result; even more so than the original, which I also loved.

I can understand not enjoying it for a number of reasons, but some of the criticisms were based on people not paying attention to some of the story, like how Abby, Joel, and Tommy ran into each other, or other things they might have forgotten from the original that make them feel some of Joel's actions were out of character.

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Virgalyssa
09/25/22 10:21:26 PM
#8:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



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Zithers
09/25/22 10:55:32 PM
#9:


g0ldie posted...
yea, I agree that it's a GOAT game.

it took a lot of risks with its narrative, and I feel it was very rewarding as a result; even more so than the original, which I also loved.

I can understand not enjoying it for a number of reasons, but some of the criticisms were based on people not paying attention to some of the story, like how Abby, Joel, and Tommy ran into each other, or other things they might have forgotten from the original that make them feel some of Joel's actions were out of character.

i've noticed a popular criticism is joel wouldn't tell a stranger his name. because he is super untrustworthy in the first game when he is running over a guy pretending to be hurt for example. but also... you know... joel does regain his humanity via ellie. that is basically why the whole ending happens and leaves such a strong impression on people. and he's probably softened up over the 3 or 4 years they've lived their lives in jackson, which apparently frequently gives supplies to people who are traveling by and whatnot. really not sure how people aren't able to comprehend this.

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g0ldie
09/25/22 10:58:55 PM
#10:


yea, there are notes/conversations about them helping people in the game, iirc.

plus, Joel also chooses to trust Henry in the first game, almost immediately after meeting him (after they fight), even though it also meant Ellie's safety.

also, Tommy already gives his and Joel's names to Abby so there was nothing he could do.

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g0ldie
09/25/22 11:01:14 PM
#12:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

how so?

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Zithers
09/25/22 11:08:15 PM
#13:


neat we finally got someone to complain about the woke agenda

probably didn't like the last jedi either

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Zithers
09/26/22 2:26:07 PM
#14:


day crowd bump

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Proto_Spark
09/26/22 2:34:19 PM
#15:


I think the game was originally intended for you to have more alternation between Ellie and Abby (which you can kind of see since there's like tutorial sections at the start of Abby's play through) but overall I really liked it.

I would've liked it to be more obviously episodic like the first game. One of the best parts of the first game was there were really clear points every hour or two of gameplay that had really obvious stopping points in a "What's gonna happen next? TUNE IN NEXT WEEK" kind of thing that's really rare in games. TLOU2 didn't have this and I think its the worse for it. I think the story for TLOU2 is worse, but that's pretty much because its trying a much more significant story, and its harder to nail a more complex story like that.

I also disagree with you liking the open areas more. I thought they were kind of poorly placed. Like Ellie is on a Rambo-esque murder spree, why do I have to stop right before I get there to explore this nearby town? I liked the game being more streamlined.

Still, was a big fan of both games. If TLOU was a 10/10, TLOU2 is like a 9/10. Still definitely worth the play.
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UnfairRepresent
09/26/22 2:37:20 PM
#16:


glad you liked it TC

I thought it was a bog standard average game gameplay wise with one of the worst stories in mainstream gaming history of plot heavy games.

It makes me sad that games like it and Beyond Two Souls are the standard bearers, telling game companies the kind of storytelling gamers want and how massively slow the standards are for writing.

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g0ldie
09/26/22 2:42:29 PM
#17:


Proto_Spark posted...
I also disagree with you liking the open areas more. I thought they were kind of poorly placed. Like Ellie is on a Rambo-esque murder spree, why do I have to stop right before I get there to explore this nearby town? I liked the game being more streamlined.
iirc, there was one open area, and that was because Ellie and Dina were looking for clues where to go in the beginning (story-wise, that section could have been written differently to avoid it, though).

after that, even though the stages could be pretty big, they were still linear.

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GameGodOfAll
09/26/22 2:52:57 PM
#18:


UnfairRepresent posted...
It makes me sad that games like it and Beyond Two Souls are the standard bearers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZeDFwTcnCc

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Proto_Spark
09/26/22 3:03:24 PM
#19:


g0ldie posted...
iirc, there was one open area, and that was because Ellie and Dina were looking for clues where to go in the beginning (story-wise, that section could have been written differently to avoid it, though).

after that, even though the stages could be pretty big, they were still linear.

Do people like David Cage games? I thought the idea was he was kind of a hack - especially after how "racist if you actually think about it at all" Detroit: Become Human was.
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pauIie
09/26/22 3:08:25 PM
#20:


idk if they're in my goat category personally but they're both dope ass games. i liked 2 a little more aside from some of the flashbacking.

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g0ldie
09/26/22 3:10:24 PM
#21:


Proto_Spark posted...
Do people like David Cage games? I thought the idea was he was kind of a hack - especially after how "racist if you actually think about it at all" Detroit: Become Human was.
I think you meant to quote UR, but if not, I'm not the right person to ask about this, since I've only played Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy.

both had some neat parts, but overall, I didn't like either one.

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UnfairRepresent
09/26/22 3:10:37 PM
#22:


GameGodOfAll posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZeDFwTcnCc
Both sold millions of copies and got rave reviews praising its incredible story

Meanwhile a game like Pathologic 2, which has one of the best stories in gaming history sells about 50,000 copies and no one bothers to even review it and the guys who make it go bankrupt.

If you're in the games industry and want to make single player story driven games, which idealogy do you go for?

That's what makes me sad.

This isn't even a new thing. Silent Hill 2 sold about 1 million copies. Resident Evil 2 sold 6 million copies.

So what did we get? Tons of games that aped Resident Evil because that's what the devs thought gamers wanted. Blue Stinger, Evil Within, Daymare, etc

Spec Ops the Line, also one of the best stories in gaming history sold about 700,000 copies.

The message is clear. Meaninglessly badly written melodrama without thought or effort sells a ton, actual crafted characters and storylines that weaves gameplay into the plot is bad businsess.

Which is a massive shame.

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UnfairRepresent
09/26/22 3:11:26 PM
#23:


g0ldie posted...
I think you meant to quote UR, but if not, I'm not the right person to ask about this, since I've only played Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy.

both had some neat parts, but overall, I didn't like either one.
Heavy Rain is the best David Cage game by far

And that in of itself says a lot.

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GameGodOfAll
09/26/22 3:22:30 PM
#24:


Who the hell is going around praising Beyond Two Souls in 2022? So it got good reviews for a big AAA game from game sites. People weren't raving about it like it was the pinnacle of story in video games.

It's such a weird game to even bring up.

Especially comparing it to something fucking great like TLoU2.

And no, you can't just use sales numbers to compare good stories in games to bad. This has always been a thing and the marketing is far more important than quality or lack thereof.

Any message board or reddit or whatever group of people is going to praise SH2 and Spec Ops. Hell, I love those games too. TLoU 1 & 2 are right in the discussion in deservedly so. Ain't no one talking about David fucking Cage games.

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Zithers
09/26/22 3:52:03 PM
#25:


Meaninglessly badly written melodrama without thought or effort sells a ton

are you suggesting that TLOU2 is melodramatic.... ?

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UnfairRepresent
09/26/22 4:11:45 PM
#26:


Zithers posted...
are you suggesting that TLOU2 is melodramatic.... ?
Next I'll be suggesting that the pope is Catholic

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Zithers
09/26/22 4:16:36 PM
#27:


UnfairRepresent posted...
Next I'll be suggesting that the pope is Catholic

i mean, loads of catholics would say otherwise, so....

in any event i would say the most melodramatic game i've played story wise is probably yakuza 0. i mean, that's very operatic with grand gestures and exaggerated characters, a lot of sprawl, twists and turns and whatnot.

TLOU2 is pretty grounded in reality (relatively speaking - it does take place during a zombie apocalypse after all) and i don't think dark/upsetting = melodramatic.

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UnfairRepresent
09/26/22 7:14:18 PM
#28:


Well I'm glad you enjoyed it and I really don't want to argue with you about it because I feel like the only thing that might do is make you like the story less XD

So I'll just say I disagree.


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Zithers
09/27/22 5:21:47 PM
#29:


UnfairRepresent posted...
Well I'm glad you enjoyed it and I really don't want to argue with you about it because I feel like the only thing that might do is make you like the story less XD

So I'll just say I disagree.

i don't think anything you say would make me like it less. always amusing when video game nerds act like they are an expert dramaturg and know everything about narrative dynamics lol

anyway gonna do one last bump to see if anyone else had fun with it. gonna try and watch some feel bad movies that have the same vibe as TLOU2 like threads or cure or come and see

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spikethedevil
09/27/22 5:22:43 PM
#30:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



Other stuff in 1 paints him as a monster but people choose to ignore it.

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Funkydog
09/27/22 5:26:52 PM
#31:


Zithers posted...
neat we finally got someone to complain about the woke agenda

probably didn't like the last jedi either
Is it really a TLOU2 topic without someone complaining about "woke" though?

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Zithers
09/27/22 5:29:02 PM
#32:


Funkydog posted...
Is it really a TLOU2 topic without someone complaining about "woke" though?

i would not know as i have not spent much time in tlou2 threads on account of wanting to avoid spoilers!!!

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