Current Events > After 20 years, Yoshi finally won a super major in SSBM!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sorry if this is a spoiler for anyone, I guess, but it's pretty cool.
AMSA is a Japanese player who grinded the HELL out of Yoshi, a character who was considered "low tier but with lots of potential." He used to be considered a character who was around considered 20-22 out of 26 characters, but AMSA almost single-handedly too him up to top 8-10 and now he's finally won a major tournament with over 800 players and virtually all the top talent. He's had wins over most if not all of the top players for a while now, but finally actualized that into a championship.

Some cool clips:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ColorfulSmoggyWatermelonChocolateRain-NyCn97gqAEiqEYsE
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/xzowyg/ending_to_amsa_vs_hungrybox_big_house_10/

I fuckin love aMSa

No fancy combos, just calculated moves. Nice.

yoshi's an insane character, a great example of a high tier character who's high tier because of the unique tools and potential, not because he's easy to play. a shame ultimate yoshi is the complete opposite. easy as fuck to play, but no unique tools and tricks

Wait smash doesnt go to sudden death if its 1 vs 1 stock. Lol. Lame.

Bro why the FUCK is Hungrypox still able to compete after what he did

How could one person bring a character, who historically was considered bottom tier for 20 years, to the top 8?

Doesn't this prove that tiers are useless?

FriedGoats posted...

How could one person bring a character, who historically was considered bottom tier for 20 years, to the top 8?

Doesn't this prove that tiers are useless?

Not really. Amsa still has to work much harder for his wins because of the matchup disadvantages Yoshi has. Tiers are useless if you're not at the level of a good tournament player. Matchup knowledge and experience also plays a factor. Nobody plays Yoshi near the level Amsa does. Like 80% of the people who play Melee use Fox. Amsa worked hella hard for this and completely deserves it though.

FriedGoats posted...

How could one person bring a character, who historically was considered bottom tier for 20 years, to the top 8?

Doesn't this prove that tiers are useless?

Tiers have always been based on high-level tournament results, and they've always been useless to casual players. The people who insist that tiers don't exist aren't affected by them. This has been explained over and over for decades, but some people just can't grasp the concept.

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

Not really. Amsa still has to work much harder for his wins because of the matchup disadvantages Yoshi has. Tiers are useless if you're not at the level of a good tournament player. Matchup knowledge and experience also plays a factor. Nobody plays Yoshi near the level Amsa does. Like 80% of the people who play Melee use Fox. Amsa worked hella hard for this and completely deserves it though.

So if no one plays it at his level, shouldn't Yoshi be considered bottom tier still?

pokedude900 posted...

Tiers have always been based on high-level tournament results, and they've always been useless to casual players. The people who insist that tiers don't exist aren't affected by them. This has been explained over and over for decades, but some people just can't grasp the concept.

So you're not ranking the tiers of the characters themselves, just the characters the top players happen to main?

So tiers are useless.

viewmaster_pi posted...

yoshi's an insane character, a great example of a high tier character who's high tier because of the unique tools and potential, not because he's easy to play. a shame ultimate yoshi is the complete opposite. easy as fuck to play, but no unique tools and tricks

There's so many cool character specific tricks in Ultimate, but so much of the game boils down to "DLC character has big hitbox." It really hits the mark on what Brawl was trying to be, a game where you just focus on the basics.

But Melee Yoshi is so hype! Like actually uses all that crazy parry tech, super-armor frames in double jump, weird jab combos on missed techs from awkward hits, and if you don't hit them you just freaking die.

FriedGoats posted...

So if no one plays it at his level, shouldn't Yoshi be considered bottom tier still?

Tiers always change as new tech is found out. When the tier lists were first made nobody explored whatever potential Yoshi had so he was considered low tier. Amsa using him has moved him up to like the top of mid tier or even low high tier because he's shown what Yoshi can do. He's not as bad as originally thought, but the character still isn't on the level of the insanely good characters like Fox, Falco, Marth and Puff.

FriedGoats posted...

How could one person bring a character, who historically was considered bottom tier for 20 years, to the top 8?

Doesn't this prove that tiers are useless?

Yoshi has not been considered bottom tier for the better part of a decade

Even Mang0s mom was rooting for AMSA (looks like she deleted the tweet LOL)

I usually just watch Ultimate but its funny seeing this shit happen

incredible, I've always been in awe of this dude

FriedGoats posted...

So you're not ranking the tiers of the characters themselves, just the characters the top players happen to main?

So tiers are useless.

Tier lists are a ranking of the characters used at the highest level of play with what is currently known of the characters. Of course if one person uses a character and finds new ways to use them it'll change their ranking on the tier list. Tiers are completely irrelevant to a vast majority of people.

CARRRNE_ASADA posted...

No fancy combos, just calculated moves. Nice.

aMSas Yoshi combos hit like a truck and are insanely technical, definitely not just calculated moves/better fundamentals.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Yoshi has not been considered bottom tier for the better part of a decade

This, Yoshi has been top 10 for years. This is more like a mid/high tier winning a major, not a bottom tier.