Poll of the Day > Parkland Shooter gets Life From Jury ...

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pionear
10/13/22 11:55:42 AM
#1:


Which One?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/10/13/parkland-shooting-nikolas-cruz-sentencing-verdict/10475032002/

Do you think it was an appropriate verdict? (Poll Question)
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Nichtcrawler-X
10/13/22 12:05:04 PM
#2:


If he did it yes. Anything less for that would probably not be appropriate.

Edit: it should go without saying, but I will say it so there can be no confusion. I obviously oppose the Death Penalty.

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streamofthesky
10/13/22 12:05:43 PM
#3:


No. He deserved the death penalty. This is a heinous breech of justice.
I only support the death penalty in rare cases where guilt is certain and the murder is especially terrible (mass murder, tortured to death, murdered children, etc...)
Cruz easily fits in those bounds. Yet he gets to live and many other far less heinous murderers and even innocent people have been killed by Floristan.
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mharbenedict34
10/13/22 12:19:03 PM
#4:


no, why take a life away to show killing is wrong.

have him tour the country and bring awareness to mental health. Rehabilitate him

ban guns too except for law enforcement
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papercup
10/13/22 12:21:57 PM
#5:


Seems fair.

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rjsilverthorn
10/13/22 12:36:01 PM
#6:


Considering he is only 24 I'm not sure if that is better or worse than the death penalty.
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Conner4REAL
10/13/22 1:15:31 PM
#7:


He deserved not only the death penalty but a slow tortureous death.

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EvilMegas
10/13/22 1:48:13 PM
#8:


Nichtcrawler-X posted...
If he did it yes. Anything less for that would probably not be appropriate.
Why is that part there?

Anyway, he should have been put to death.
There is no value in keeping him alive. He will never be redeemed or reformed for what he's done. He is simply too dangerous and should be put down like the animal he is.

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jsb0714
10/13/22 1:52:09 PM
#9:


mharbenedict34 posted...
no, why take a life away to show killing is wrong.

have him tour the country and bring awareness to mental health. Rehabilitate him

ban guns too except for law enforcement

*rolls eyes*
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HornedLion
10/13/22 1:57:32 PM
#10:


EvilMegas posted...
Why is that part there?


Because he probably hasnt kept up with the story and wanted to chime in. Hence the disclaimer. Duh.

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Shananagainz
10/13/22 1:58:03 PM
#11:


EvilMegas posted...
Why is that part there?


Yea I was kind of confused by that too.

Either way, if life in prison is what he gets, then hell likely be spending the rest of his days in protective confinement or hes going to have a lot of enemies by his reputation if hes in gen pop and I dont see that going well for him.

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Nichtcrawler-X
10/13/22 2:01:13 PM
#12:


EvilMegas posted...
Why is that part there?

Because I know nothing about the case and thus answering the question: Is Life in prison appropriate punishment for killing 17 people?

EvilMegas posted...
Anyway, he should have been put to death.
There is no value in keeping him alive. He will never be redeemed or reformed for what he's done. He is simply too dangerous and should be put down like the animal he is.

Capital punishment is savagery that should have been relegated to the past ages ago. That some "civilised" countries still uphold it fills me with great shame and disgust.

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Cacciato
10/13/22 2:02:14 PM
#13:


The fact youre too fucking stupid to look up a case and decide to say if he did it fills me with shame and disgust.
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Nichtcrawler-X
10/13/22 2:07:36 PM
#14:


I was under the impression the question was only about the validity of the punishment, not the validity of the judgement.

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EvilMegas
10/13/22 2:22:36 PM
#15:


Nichtcrawler-X posted...
Because I know nothing about the case and thus answering the question: Is Life in prison appropriate punishment for killing 17 people?

Capital punishment is savagery that should have been relegated to the past ages ago. That some "civilised" countries still uphold it fills me with great shame and disgust.
Savagery is killing school children for no fucking reason.
No one wants the death penalty because we think it's cool or whatever it's to eliminate people are legitimate threats to society and can never be reformed.

What's the point in locking a dude up forever? To prolong his suffering, thats barbaric. So you can feel good about not having him die instantly?
It's just a roundabout death penalty so you can act like you've done the right thing.

It's a pointless system designed to make people who have nothing to do with the situation feel good about themselves.


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Cacciato
10/13/22 2:26:05 PM
#16:


Nichtcrawler-X posted...
I was under the impression the question was only about the validity of the punishment, not the validity of the judgement.
I was under the impression that, golly, the circumstances warranting that judgement might impact the punishment.
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Nichtcrawler-X
10/13/22 2:56:08 PM
#17:


Keeping someone fed and alive is not barbaric.

Sure, employing them for slave labour is, but that certainly is not an argument in favour of the death penalty. Just that the US has to stop using prisoners as slaves.

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EvilMegas
10/13/22 3:17:45 PM
#18:


I don't know why you brought such a nonpoint into thw mix.

Imprisonment until death is literally a slower, more cruel death penalty. Especially so for him because he won't be in genpop.

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GastroFan
10/13/22 5:38:41 PM
#19:


EvilMegas posted...
I don't know why you brought such a nonpoint into thw mix.

Imprisonment until death is literally a slower, more cruel death penalty. Especially so for him because he won't be in genpop.

I saw an old Dr. Who episode years ago when Davos, the creator of the Daleks, was freed from imprisonment. His claim was that 'being imprisoned for life was infinitely more cruel and heartless' than death because you physically and psychologically melt away, day after day, hour after hour. Before that I'd believed in life without parole but, when I realized that whether it was a humane punishment or not depended on your perspective, I reached the conclusion that sometimes people who do horrendous, heinous things (like murder for instance) don't deserve a 'humane' punishment.
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adjl
10/13/22 6:24:12 PM
#20:


EvilMegas posted...
it's to eliminate people are legitimate threats to society and can never be reformed.

If he's in jail, is he a legitimate threat to society?

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Jen0125
10/13/22 6:27:01 PM
#21:


adjl posted...
If he's in jail, is he a legitimate threat to society?

He could be a threat to other prisoners since he has a propensity for mass murder
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Zareth
10/13/22 7:10:01 PM
#22:


Jen0125 posted...
He could be a threat to other prisoners since he has a propensity for mass murder
Good thing they don't allow guns in prison then

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adjl
10/13/22 7:13:14 PM
#23:


Jen0125 posted...
He could be a threat to other prisoners since he has a propensity for mass murder

A threat which can be mitigated without killing him, I would imagine.

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EvilMegas
10/13/22 11:36:30 PM
#24:


adjl posted...
If he's in jail, is he a legitimate threat to society?
Yes. People in jail are still people and they aren't all mass murdering lunatics.

Also, you don't just stop being a threat to everyone around you because you go to prison. What if he gets the upper hand on someone and kills them in jail? Whoops I guess?

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Conner4REAL
10/14/22 12:01:27 AM
#25:


adjl posted...
A threat which can be mitigated without killing him, I would imagine.

ever heard of deterrence?

killing this scum and making an example of him might prevent more. Even if there is the possibility of it preventing one more shootings isnt it worth it?

this piece of crap stole the ultimate freedom from those kids. Actual kids. He stole the freedom of life. Not a hypothetical life an actual factual real life.

why should he keep his and continue to enjoy that simple freedom that he denied so many?

and of ending his worthless life makes some other lunatic think twice that is a benefit to society as a whole.

there are borderline cases that the death penalty should not apply. This is not one of them by any means.


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TheFalseDeity
10/14/22 12:08:28 AM
#26:


Conner4REAL posted...
He deserved not only the death penalty but a slow tortureous death.


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Kimbos_Egg
10/14/22 1:35:00 AM
#27:


EvilMegas posted...
Also, you don't just stop being a threat to everyone around you because you go to prison. What if he gets the upper hand on someone and kills them in jail? Whoops I guess?

.. you can literally say this about almost every criminal though.

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Zareth
10/14/22 1:36:46 AM
#28:


EvilMegas posted...
What if he gets the upper hand on someone and kills them in jail?
I mean he's a skinny lil bitch and a coward (like all mass shooters are) so I doubt that'll happen. Take away his gun and he can't do shit.

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GGuirao13
10/14/22 4:13:28 AM
#29:


Death penalty.

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EvilMegas
10/14/22 7:22:09 AM
#30:


Kimbos_Egg posted...
.. you can literally say this about almost every criminal though.
Okay?

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CellBlock7
10/14/22 7:45:32 AM
#31:


Im not opposed to the death penalty, but Id much rather a scumbag like this spend as many years as possible rotting away. Death would be too quick and easy.


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adjl
10/14/22 8:52:35 AM
#32:


Conner4REAL posted...
ever heard of deterrence?

I don't think there's a single person who plans and executes a mass shooting like this that expects to actually survive it. Giving any number of them the death penalty wouldn't deter much of anything. If anything, a sizable percentage are a form of deliberate suicide by cop, so executing them as a matter of regular practice would act as entirely the opposite of a deterrent.

EvilMegas posted...
Yes. People in jail are still people and they aren't all mass murdering lunatics.

Also, you don't just stop being a threat to everyone around you because you go to prison. What if he gets the upper hand on someone and kills them in jail? Whoops I guess?

And how does this not apply to every violent criminal? Should we just kill all of them, then?

They're far from perfect (holy hecknuggets are they far from perfect), but prisons have plenty of systems and procedures in place to prevent inmates from killing each other that don't involve preemptively killing everyone that might be a threat. If he kills somebody in jail (which, as others have pointed out, seems unlikely given that he's not exactly the sort of person who can be threatening without hiding behind a gun), that's a failure of those systems, not evidence that he should have been executed. Every country in the world that doesn't have the death penalty keeps their murderers in jail and doesn't have a rampant problem of those murderers killing other inmates. This is not such a special case as to warrant special measures that aren't necessary anywhere else.

The death penalty is really only necessary for dangerous people that are a chronic flight risk (or who are a flight risk at all and are dangerous enough for that to be an intolerable risk). In any other case, it does not provide any benefit to public safety that cannot be provided by other means.

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DragonClaw01
10/14/22 9:27:21 AM
#33:


Jen0125 posted...
He could be a threat to other prisoners since he has a propensity for mass murder
Have you seen the guy? There is no way this guy is threatening anyone in prison. Other prisoners threatening him on the other hand...

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Kimbos_Egg
10/14/22 3:29:44 PM
#34:


EvilMegas posted...
Okay?

So kill them all? Yeah i'm sure thats a good way for a justice system to work huh. And i bet all those violent criminals won't double down when cornered because death is their only future, huh?

Absolutely fantastic, except if you put even the most remote amount of thought into it.

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Hop103
10/14/22 4:52:19 PM
#35:


God no, you can't fix a school shooter, and life for him will be cruel and unusual punishment (the mental decline he'll experience after a while is not something you want to see), I think the death sentence is more humane and is a deterrent to would be school shooters, remember these are young people; if they know that only a shameful death awaits them for shooting up a school instead of lifelong infamy, maybe they'll stop and think, maybe there is a better way out.

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teddy241
10/14/22 5:18:38 PM
#36:


Waste of tax payers dollars. Smoke him like they do in Texas. Hell has a special place for assholes like him
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adjl
10/14/22 10:56:46 PM
#37:


teddy241 posted...
Waste of tax payers dollars.

The death penalty almost invariably costs more than a life sentence.

Hop103 posted...
if they know that only a shameful death awaits them for shooting up a school instead of lifelong infamy, maybe they'll stop and think, maybe there is a better way out.
adjl posted...
I don't think there's a single person who plans and executes a mass shooting like this that expects to actually survive it. Giving any number of them the death penalty wouldn't deter much of anything. If anything, a sizable percentage are a form of deliberate suicide by cop, so executing them as a matter of regular practice would act as entirely the opposite of a deterrent.


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Ozmose
10/14/22 11:20:48 PM
#38:


adjl posted...
The death penalty almost invariably costs more than a life sentence.
I could get it done for about $0.30

In cases like this where there's such overwhelming evidence, so much so that an appeal is pretty much pointless, just take him out behind the courthouse and dome him. The government already wastes enough of my money. I don't need upkeep fees for a lowlife added to the pile.

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adjl
10/15/22 9:58:21 AM
#39:


Ozmose posted...
I could get it done for about $0.30

In cases like this where there's such overwhelming evidence, so much so that an appeal is pretty much pointless, just take him out behind the courthouse and dome him. The government already wastes enough of my money. I don't need upkeep fees for a lowlife added to the pile.

And who decides when appeals are pointless? The government, whom you're trying to prevent from executing people without adequate cause? A jury, whose potential biases and layperson ignorance you're trying to eliminate by bringing additional opinions in? A judge, granting absolute power over life and death to a single person who doesn't have to listen to anyone else? The general public, who definitely won't be influenced by whatever version of the story generates the most traffic for news sites?

As tempting as it is to say "this person really sucks we shouldn't bother with appeals for them," the law can't work that way. There will always be fringe cases and there will always be a need to confirm that a case is not fringe by going through the proper channels.

For that matter, what "overwhelming evidence" is there that he's beyond rehabilitation? People are fond of saying that whenever a particularly heinous crime happens, but I don't think I've seen a single instance where that wasn't just a knee-jerk emotional reaction (read: a uselessly uninformed opinion) instead of an assessment based on the opinions of mental health professionals who had genuinely tried to rehabilitate the person (read: an opinion that should actually be used to make decisions). Perhaps you're special enough to be the exception to that near-universal trend, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: Please share the evidence you have that concludes beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's no chance this guy could ever function in society again.

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Revelation34
10/15/22 10:30:27 AM
#40:


Conner4REAL posted...


ever heard of deterrence?

killing this scum and making an example of him might prevent more. Even if there is the possibility of it preventing one more shootings isnt it worth it?

this piece of crap stole the ultimate freedom from those kids. Actual kids. He stole the freedom of life. Not a hypothetical life an actual factual real life.

why should he keep his and continue to enjoy that simple freedom that he denied so many?

and of ending his worthless life makes some other lunatic think twice that is a benefit to society as a whole.

there are borderline cases that the death penalty should not apply. Or cases where its application is racially biased. This is not one of them by any means.


No it won't. They do the shootings because they don't care in the first place.

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DragonClaw01
10/15/22 11:05:47 AM
#41:


Yeah it is a bit infuriating, since supposedly, according to rumor, one of the jurors had a moral opposition to the death penalty, so didn't even bother weighing the evidence, so the trial was pretty much pointless. Thousands of dollars & tons of painful testimony down the drain. Although, the final vote was 9-3 in favor of the death penalty, so there were a few other people that jumped aboard.

You may as well get rid of the death penalty if you can't even give a mass school shooter whos guilt was never in doubt it.

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adjl
10/15/22 11:10:13 AM
#42:


DragonClaw01 posted...
You may as well get rid of the death penalty

Indeed, outside of instances where somebody continues to be a significant threat to the public even from jail.

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DragonClaw01
10/15/22 11:30:29 AM
#43:


adjl posted...
Indeed, outside of instances where somebody continues to be a significant threat to the public even from jail.
It has a therapeutic benefit to the victims, since it gives them closure. It can be dubious in cases were the guilt is nebulous, you don't want to execute an innocent man after all, but in this case there is no doubt, so there seems to be little disadvantage to employing it.

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adjl
10/15/22 11:35:14 AM
#44:


DragonClaw01 posted...
It has a therapeutic benefit to the victims, since it gives them closure.

Basing a justice system around what how people feel instead of what has the greatest practical benefit for society is generally a pretty bad idea.

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DragonClaw01
10/15/22 11:41:01 AM
#45:


What benefit is there to society by paying for his prison sentence for the rest of his life? And giving the victims of the massacre closure is a boon to society.

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adjl
10/15/22 11:48:29 AM
#46:


DragonClaw01 posted...
What benefit is there to society by paying for his prison sentence for the rest of his life?

It's cheaper than the death penalty (unless you remove the checks and balances that can't be removed for the reasons outlined earlier), completely eliminates the risk of executing an innocent person, and would leave open the possibility of rehabilitation if the country weren't so infatuated with the idea of revenge and punishment as to fundamentally undermine the justice system's ability to make meaningful improvements to society.

DragonClaw01 posted...
And the therapeutic benefits are a boon to society.

How so? Do you have actual evidence comparing society-level outcomes between cases where the death penalty is/isn't employed? Or is this just a vague, pathos-driven "the victims will have more closure" sort of sentiment that you're going with because it sounds nice and not because of any observed benefit?

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teddy241
10/15/22 11:48:34 AM
#47:


Id say let the parents of the Deceased children take a vote and decide on life in prison vs death
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adjl
10/15/22 11:49:26 AM
#48:


teddy241 posted...
Id say let the parents of the Deceased children take a vote and decide on life in prison vs death

Because if there's one group that can be trusted to make impartial decisions about what's best for society, it's the immediate victims of the crime in question.

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teddy241
10/15/22 11:50:42 AM
#49:


adjl posted...
Because if there's one group that can be trusted to make impartial decisions about what's best for society, it's the immediate victims of the crime in question.
Why not? They were impacted and have to live with the decision. The rest of us go on about our business until it happens to us
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adjl
10/15/22 11:57:25 AM
#50:


teddy241 posted...
Why not? They were impacted and have to live with the decision. The rest of us go on about our business until it happens to us

Because he's not being jailed because he hurt them. He's being jailed because there's ample reason to believe he'll hurt more people if left to his own devices.

Revenge is a stupid reason to do anything.

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