Current Events > Parents are partially responsible for how a kid turns out

(+) Yeah! (+)

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Never got the point of polls unless it was seriously inquiring about opinions.

People saying false also means theyre saying parents are never responsible for how a kid turns out.

Ridiculous how such simple logic fails on CE.

blackrider76 posted...

People saying false also means theyre saying parents are never responsible for how a kid turns out.

Ridiculous how such simple logic fails on CE.

You say this after the former half of your post is a literal strawman argument.....

Not to mention you are aware a poll...doesn't prove an opinion is fact right?

One part parents, one part environment, one part genetics.

Parents are probably the most important part of that trio.

Everyone is a product of their environment in one way or the other.

Partially? They're a massive part.

I already know my parents fucked me up. When I think of my biggest fears and shortcomings I think back and realize they created them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yeah, some people seriously need to go back to school if they cant comprehend a simple logic statement and think thats a strawman.

I mean...everyone is a product of their upbringing in various ways.

I think its just a roll of the dice honestly.

Man you are going hardball today aren't you TC.

LeoRavus posted...

I already know my parents fucked me up. When I think of my biggest fears and shortcomings I think back and realize they created them.

Yep. I'm so fucking afraid of trying anything because I was actively encouraged to not. Like, damn. How is that a recipe for success?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's not how that works. You are going down a strawman.

The poll presented a binary simplistic question that in reality is neither binary or simple.

"Parents are partially responsible for how a kid turns out, true or false.

The world is not a black and white place nor should black and white logic be used constantly.

The poll leaves the answer of false open ended. It does not say choosing false means parents are never responsible. You inserted this based off your overall personal opinion on the subject.

Its never the parents fault, some kids are just born bad and cant be taught. Just like certain dog breeds. Never victim blame the parents for a child turnout out bad

sparky2658 posted...

That's not how they works. You are going down a strawman.

The poll presented a binary simplistic question that in reality is neither binary or simple.

A = parents are responsible for their kid

If A is partially true is false, then A is always false.

Thats not a strawman, thats literally how your logic checks out if you make that kind of statement.

Go back to school.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Exactly, this is where you and blackrider are on a strawman argument.

The poll is not binary.

The poll asks the open ended question of a parent being partially responsible for how a child turns out. Yes, it is open ended as the question (or rather the 2 choices available) itself is not an absolute, regardless of your personal feelings and opinion.

Answering false is open ended to meaning either the parent can sometimes be not partially responsible...., sometimes responsible but not always, or the parent is never responsible.

It does not mean just what you WANT it to mean. The poll ignores nuance and circumstances and pushes a black and white scenario when the world simply is not black and white.

The poll answer regardless of your feelings was left open ended. If the TC wanted it to be an absolute binary poll (ridiculous as that would be), one of the options should of had an absolute.

Mostly, not partially.

Partially true and partially false are the same thing in logic. If you want to say theyre partially not responsible, youre still voting true.

Lot of random CEmen trying to shirk responsibility for proper parenting by trying to turn logic into a feelings debate.

blackrider76 posted...

Partially true and partially false are the same thing in logic. If you want to say theyre partially not responsible, youre still voting true.

Lot of random CEmen trying to shirk responsibility for proper parenting by trying to turn logic into a feelings debate.

Partially true and partially false are not the same thing in logic. Nor is partially true the same thing as absolutely true or partially false the same as absolutely false when pushing a narrative.

That's not even a logical argument as it tries to create simplicity to a nuanced and often complex problem. Turning a scenario into a black and white scenario when it's not. Like it or not the world is not black and white and there is a lot of gray.

Your simplistic mindset of things is not how reality works or even how facts work.

yes, both through direct teaching moments/guidance/advice and indirect actions and the general vibe of the home.

they obviously aren't solely responsible but if they're present in the kid's life, they have influence on the kid and thus are partially responsible in some form

sparky2658 posted...

Partially true and partially false are not the same thing in logic. Nor is partially true the same thing as absolutely true or partially false the same as absolutely false when pushing a narrative.

That's not even a logical argument as it tries to create simplicity to a nuanced and often complex problem. Turning a scenario into a black and white scenario when it's not. Like it or not the world is not black and white and there is a lot of gray.

Your simplistic mindset of things is not how reality works or even how facts work.

wow every word you said was wrong.gif

Dont try to talk realism when the other topic went for the logical conclusion of if no one accepts responsibility, it just goes away and the realistic consequences of jail or death are unearned.

blackrider76 posted...

wow every word you said was wrong.gif

Dont try to talk realism when the other topic went for the logical conclusion of if no one accepts responsibility, it just goes away and the realistic consequences of jail or death are unearned.

The other topic you are doing the same thing are doing here. Confusing your feelings with facts. That and your forever strawman argument.

No one said anything about no one being responsible in either topics just like no one here said a parent is never responsible. You are doing what you do best, strawman.

And yet, still no one has provided who actually is responsible, if not the parents.

It depends is a non-answer, especially when most of the situations given can be traced back to the parents neglect or mistreatment.

The one legitimate excuse is one *I* presented, and thats if the parents were dead and literally no one else could sub in as a parental figure for the child (in which case, it would be a failure of the governments adoption system or society as a whole).

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


This. Thats not to say that there arent a number of other very important factors though.

People are a product of their environment, and there's no greater influence to your environment than your parents

blackrider76 posted...

And yet, still no one has provided who actually is responsible, if not the parents.

You were told even in the other topic it depends on the circumstances.

The world isn't black and white. It's full of a lot of gray. There is no one answer to who is responsible for how a child turns out. You want one, and there isn't one.

Like the other topic and now, you will ignore that answer and either go off on a strawman again, claim no one answered your question again, or both.

The answer of false does not mean a parent is never responsible. The polls answers regardless of the TCs possible or not possible intentions, are open ended in the false answer. As said before, false does not mean never just because you want it to.

If the title said "Parents can be (and usually are) partially responsible for how a kid turns out" it would be an easy true vote. But just using "are" is too definitive and would include parents that are completely perfect yet still have kids turn out to be shitheads due to other factors. Can't always blame parents for bad freewill choices.

sparky2658 posted...

You were told even in the other topic it depends on the circumstances.

The world isn't black and white. It's full of a lot of gray. There is no one answer to who is responsible for how a child turns out.

Like the other topic and now, you will ignore that answer and either go off on a strawman again, claim no one answered your question again, or both.

Thats rich considering youre ignoring how basically every poster agrees that parents are not only partially responsible, theyre a huge if not the biggest influence.

But sure, Im strawmanning.

Yeah. I think environment can play a stronger part. Also, Siblings. Which, tbh, the siblings are also under tge influence of the adults. I think my mom and 3 sisters are the reason I could listen to the mostly violent rap and play the most violent games and still grow up to be as soft as I am. I don't even like hurting bugs anymore, unless they can carry disease.

I also was directly next to a certain level of violence growing up.

Tbf, I have a condition that makes it really hard to gain weight. So, I also wasn't built like the people around me who were majority fighters.

The most important environment is the prenatal environment, but obviously parenting makes a difference.

blackrider76 posted...

Thats rich considering youre ignoring how basically every poster agrees that parents are not only partially responsible, theyre a huge if not the biggest influence.

But sure, Im strawmanning.

One, you are introducing yet another fallacy. An appeal to numbers doesn't make your argument any less false.

Two, yes you are still strawmanning. If you are ignoring all of the users who have argued against your argument and presenting a black and white argument to what they never said.....that's a strawman. No one here claimed a parent is never responsible, nor does the polls answer of false mean a parent can never be responsible. Yet you have presented an untrue black and white scenario. That's a strawman.

The answer of false in how open ended the answers are can mean:

• parent is fully responsible (as the true answer claims just partial)
• Parent sometimes responsible at all but not always
• the parent is never responsible.

There is no absolute meaning as the poll answer were not phrased as an absolute. The polls question itself doesn't even have an absolute answer.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

partially

*mostly

sparky2658 posted...

One, you are introducing yet another fallacy. An appeal to numbers doesn't make your argument any less false.

Two, yes you are still strawmanning. If you are ignoring all of the users who have argued against your ridiculous argument and presenting a strawman, black and white argument to what they never said.....that's a strawman. No one here claimed a parent is never responsible, nor does the polls answer of false mean a parent can never be responsible. Yet you have presented an untrue black and white scenario that strawmans this.

That wasnt an appeal to numbers, that was pointing out hypocrisy. Calling me out for ignoring posts while ignoring literally everyone else in this topic is not the burn you think it is.

In the first place, I addressed your claims multiple times by calling them irrelevant. Youre the ones trying to stir up bad faith by citing free will trumps bad parenting or societys law is flawed therefore no one is responsible for their actions. No one is outright claiming the absolutes, but your arguments are leading to that conclusion, which is why it falls apart.

blackrider76 posted...

That wasnt an appeal to numbers, that was pointing out hypocrisy.

So not only do you not understand what facts are, you don't know what hypocrisy and strawman means.....

Partially yes. But it still comes down to the kid to decide for themselves how they want to be good and bad.