Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 85: black midi - Hellfire (+ Nas - Illmatic results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks_Set_2

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, October 23 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle (a new user will be added to the end of the current cycle as long as there are four weeks remaining) - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).
7c. I have added a tiered vote structure - the least popular album will be removed and its backup votes distributed to the other two entrants.
8. Starting with the next cycle, every four weeks will be a competitive week where those listed choose a single album to face off against others.

black midi - Hellfire track list:
1. Hellfire
2. Sugar/Tzu
3. Eat Men Eat
4. Welcome to Hell
5. Still
6. Half Time*
7. The Race is About to Begin
8. Dangerous Liaisons
9. The Defence
10. 27 Questions
*Half Time is a brief interlude that will not be calculated in the final results

Current Cycle:
10/23: Seanchan (Kylie Minogue - Fever)
10/30: Giggsalot
11/06: RyoCaliente
11/13: darkx (Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill)
11/20: neonreaper
11/27: Great_Paul
12/04: jcgamer107
12/11: ChichiriMuyo
12/18: BlueCrystalTear

Future cycle (dates subject to change if anyone new signs up before 11/27):
12/25: MetalmindStats
1/1: HBJDubs
1/8: Raetsel_Lapin
1/15: BlueCrystalTear/darkx/neonreaper
1/22: Steiner
1/29: Snake5555555555
2/5: Jesse_Custer
2/12: RyoCaliente/VeryInsane/FoolFantastic
2/19: ZaziGuado
2/26: firefdr
3/4: Johnbobb
3/11: Steiner/ChichiriMuyo/Great_Paul
3/18: VeryInsane
3/25: FoolFantastic
4/1: Seanchan
4/8: Johnbobb/ZaziGuado/jcgamer107
4/15: Giggsalot
4/22: RyoCaliente
4/29: darkx
5/6: Snake5555555555/Raetsel_Lapin/Seanchan
5/13: neonreaper
5/20: Great_Paul
5/27: jcgamer107
6/3: Giggsalot/MetalmindStats/Jesse_Custer
6/10: ChichiriMuyo
6/17: BlueCrystalTear
6/24: HBJDubs/firefdr

Nas - Illmatic results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
FoolFantastic (10)
Giggsalot (12)
VeryInsane (16)
Seanchan (18)
neonreaper (20)
MetalmindStats (22)
BlueCrystalTear (26)
Johnbobb (28)
Raetsel_Lapin (28)
HBJDubs (32)

General Album Comments

BlueCrystalTear: Eh, don't really feel like listening again. That started to get redundant by the end. And that's largely because I don't listen to hip hop like this... ever, really.

Johnbobb: Regarding Nas, I've listened to this album a few times, and it's great, but still going to listen again here soon. This is also the Nas album I would've nominated (as pretty much any Nas fan would feel obligated to) but I'm in the minority that I still find Life Is Good to be his best album

Seanchan: I was excited to see this is only 40 minutes long, as I think all the previous rap albums we've covered are 60+. Unfortunately, I'm glad it was only 40 minutes, as I didn't really get any mental separation of these songs. It just felt like 4 minutes of constant rapping 9 times over, with nothing much standing out in my mind. Certainly this didn't immediately grab me like Kanye, Kendrick, or Mos Def did.

Giggsalot: Haha, the albums that end up filtering people in these topics never fail to amuse me

Illmatic is the consensus best rap album of all time with hip-hop purists for a reason - almost every song here is an absolute classic, and there's not a second wasted. In some ways it's almost hard to talk about in its technical flawlessness. But listening to it for the first time in a long time for this topic, I was newly blown away by so many of the songs that I have known every word to for years. Something like six of the nine songs here are among the best rap songs ever. Just an unbelievable record.

VeryInsane: This is probably my most listened to album out there. Its what opened me up to Rap in general, its got some iconic beats mixed with great storytelling lyrics. Even the Genesis, though it is at the bottom, is still a fine intro. Admittedly I dont listen to it as much as I used to, but its still a good listen

Johnbobb: pretty much any song on this album would be the best song on most other albums

FoolFantastic: I have a weird relationship with Illmatic where I agree that it is great, but there are also several dozen hip hop albums I prefer so I always feel like I'm missing something when I revisit it. Even if we just look at East Coast Hip Hop albums of 1994, I greatly prefer Ready to Die.

Seanchan: I have no strong feelings on this album. I didn't really like it but I didn't dislike it either. Probably 3 listens isn't really enough to fully digest a lyrically dense album like this.

MetalmindStats (responding to Seanchan on "3 listens"): This is also my main takeaway from this week, for what that's worth.

Illmatic track ranking

10. The Genesis (Track #1)
Score: 28 (Average Rank: 8.3/10)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper, Giggsalot, VeryInsane, Johnbobb, Seanchan, MetalmindStats (#10)

Raetsel_Lapin: I suspect this is going to get last place pretty easily since it's not much of a song, but I like it. The beat's great & I'll always have a slight bias towards interesting sampled dialog and spoken word lyrics.

VeryInsane: a good intro that pumps you as to what to come, nothing more nothing less

9. One Time 4 Your Mind (Track #8)
Score: 33 (Average Rank: 7.7/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

VeryInsane: its a bit slower than the other songs but its still great

8. One Love (Track #7)
Score: 45 (Average Rank: 6.5/10)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#10)

VeryInsane: Good feature from Q-Tip (considered nomming Tribe but maybe thats a future pick)

7. Memory Lane (Sittin' in da Park) (Track #6)
Score: 58 (Average Rank: 5.5/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear (#10)

VeryInsane: when that organ hits you know you are in for a treat

6. Represent (Track #9)
Score: 60 (Average Rank: 5.6/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic (#10)

VeryInsane: I love the freestyle stuff at the end and I dont really know why

5. Halftime (Track #5)
Score: 61 (Average Rank: 5.4/10)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#9)

VeryInsane: man I have to put Halftime at 7 what the hell

4. It Ain't Hard to Tell (Track #10)
Score: 64 (Average Rank: 5.4/10)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Johnbobb (#9)

Raetsel_Lapin: I love "Nas Will Prevail", a song from his original demo tape that was heavily reworked into this song... sadly, I don't really care for this version. Some of the lyrics are cool, but everything I liked from Prevail is gone & I'm left incredibly disappointed with how it turned out.

VeryInsane: Good enough closer, sampling MJ in 94 is a interesting choice

3. Life's a Bitch (Track #3)
Score: 86 (Average Rank: 3.9/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear, Giggsalot, HBJDubs (#8)

VeryInsane: I dont think I can name a single AZ song but he absolutely killed it here

2. The World is Yours (Track #4)
Score: 92 (Average Rank: 3.6/10)
Biggest Fan(s): VeryInsane, FoolFantastic, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#9)

Raetsel_Lapin: The chorus is so repetitive that this song was near the bottom of my original rankings, but after further listens I rather dig the style of this song... I'll never *like* the repetition, but I can look past it.

VeryInsane: so good that Jay-Z had to sample it to get himself out there.

1. N.Y. State of Mind (Track #2)
Score: 93 (Average Rank: 3.1/10)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear, Giggsalot (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#6)

VeryInsane: Probably the most well known song, a decade ago it would be a easy number one

Giggsalot on his choices this week:
"I've decided to switch things up this week. I don't think we've done any jazz yet, which is a bit sad, and that should be an interesting change of pace. I've tried to select three fairly accessible jazz records with a reasonable number of tracks to rank (this is actually quite hard when you start looking!). Two classics and one modern favourite of mine."

Speaking as myself now, I can attest to the difficulty of finding a great jazz album with a reasonable number of tracks. My top 3 jazz albums cap at 5 tracks...

1: Sugar/Tzu
2: Still
3: The Defence
4: Welcome To Hell
5: The Race Is About To Begin
6: Eat Men Eat
7: Dangerous Liasons
8: 27 Questions
9: Hellfire

If you want Half Time posted even though it isn't part of the ranking, I'd put it in second place. I love bursts of static & maintain a spoken word bias, so that's one of the most "me" tracks imaginable. Shame it's so short though.

FoolFantastic posted...

*Half Time is a brief interlude that will not be calculated in the final results

I misread the opening post and thought you were referring to the Nas track Halftime

FoolFantastic posted...

Speaking as myself now, I can attest to the difficulty of finding a great jazz album with a reasonable number of tracks. My top 3 jazz albums cap at 5 tracks...

Yeah, that's not enough to rank. One of my personal rules is that an album I nominate must have at least 8 songs, because anything less than that doesn't provide enough (and anything above 16 becomes too cumbersome).

Tagging this for later

When I nominated this, I mentioned that it fulfills a certain aspect of aggression that I expect but rarely find from metal. This is far from a metal album, falling squarely into experimental prog, but something about it hits me harder. Part of this is the constant shift in dynamics - at any given moment, the band is as likely to be blowing shit up as they are to be belting it out like old-school lounge crooners. This contrast is key to the Hellfire experience - whatever the current atmosphere, a general unease seeps through. The band has multiple vocalists, but Geordie Greep's mad preacher/deranged drill sergeant delivery is what makes black midi true standouts. He's not a pleasant vocalist in any traditional sense, but he sells the alien horror found on their best tracks.

I also decided to revisit all three of their studio albums this morning - I think all three are of comparable quality, so if you do end up liking this one, I highly suggest checking out their first two.

My ranking:
Welcome to Hell
Sugar/Tzu
The Race is About to Begin
27 Questions
Eat Men Eat
Dangerous Liaisons
The Defence
Still
Hellfire

First listen done.

Wow, this one is a lot to take in! At times, a true cacophony of noise. Some jazz influences? Some discordant piano. It's like an approaching tornado where I was just strapping myself down and holding on tight because who knows what's coming; loud, wild and overwhelming, then suddenly soft and more thoughtful. My mind immediately went to Rain Dogs, which probably isn't a super great comparison, but like that, this feels singular amongst what we've covered so far.

I think I was enjoying it? Certainly I wasn't expecting the end, and it's not too often where I finish an album and I'm anticipating another song or two. Looking forward to some more listens.

Funny thing, after this album finished, the next song Spotify radio played was Black Country, New Road, which, wasn't that one of your other nominations Fool? If so, what are the odds of that!

Seanchan posted...

First listen done.

Wow, this one is a lot to take in! At times, a true cacophony of noise. Some jazz influences? Some discordant piano. It's like an approaching tornado where I was just strapping myself down and holding on tight because who knows what's coming; loud, wild and overwhelming, then suddenly soft and more thoughtful. My mind immediately went to Rain Dogs, which probably isn't a super great comparison, but like that, this feels singular amongst what we've covered so far.

I think I was enjoying it? Certainly I wasn't expecting the end, and it's not too often where I finish an album and I'm anticipating another song or two. Looking forward to some more listens.

Funny thing, after this album finished, the next song Spotify radio played was Black Country, New Road, which, wasn't that one of your other nominations Fool? If so, what are the odds of that!

black midi and Black Country New Road have actually performed together under the name black midi new road, so they are essentially sister acts. While BCNR lightened up with the album I nominated, their debut was comparably intense.

Looking forward to doing this one! I'd put off listening to Hellfire in spite of the acclaim because I couldn't get into Cavalcade, so it's nice to have some motivation.

A few more words on my three poll choices, for those unfamiliar:

- Far East Suite is Ellington, the king of Big Band jazz, at his most ambitious and modern. Most of his best work preceded the album era, but this is a major exception. Simply put, an absolute master getting ambitious.

Blue Pepper: https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-JkxuO6B8Bo

- Mingus Ah Um is kind of the opposite - a famously raucous, wild figure at his most accessible and catchy. Mingus was a genius arranger with a talent for creating some of the hardest jazz grooves of all time, and this all comes through here.

Better Get Hit In Yo' Soul: https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DJ0FcKOfRgvE

- Knee-Deep in the North Sea is your wild card option here. Almost certainly the most likely to attract non-jazz fans, this is a modern classic that has a very unusual, almost video game-like sound due to its heavy use of the hang drum. I love these guys, and so should you.

Zavodovski Island: https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGvG_C6bV6es

It could just be me, but Google is blocking those links with a Suspicious Activity warning whenever I click them. The formatting is also a bit different.. instead of "watch?v=" the links have coding instead of the symbols, which I think is what's triggering the message. I'll edit the links in case anyone else has the issue--same videos, obviously, just putting the symbols back in the links so they'll load for me.

Blue Pepper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JkxuO6B8Bo

Better Get Hit In Yo' Soul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0FcKOfRgvE

Zavodovski Island: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvG_C6bV6es

Giggsalot posted...

Looking forward to doing this one! I'd put off listening to Hellfire in spite of the acclaim because I couldn't get into Cavalcade, so it's nice to have some motivation.

I wasn't quite as high on Cavalcade last year outside of John L, which landed in my top 3 songs of the year. That single track kind of frontloaded the album singlehandedly, its pure chaos leaving me wanting more than what the rest of the album delivered. I've grown to appreciate it more in retrospect after Hellfire, which I think does a better job of integrating their two extremes.

Fluttershy_Pony posted...

It could just be me, but Google is blocking those links with a Suspicious Activity warning whenever I click them. The formatting is also a bit different.. instead of "watch?v=" the links have coding instead of the symbols, which I think is what's triggering the message. I'll edit the links in case anyone else has the issue--same videos, obviously, just putting the symbols back in the links so they'll load for me.

Blue Pepper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JkxuO6B8Bo

Better Get Hit In Yo' Soul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0FcKOfRgvE

Zavodovski Island: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvG_C6bV6es

Thank you! I typed that up on my phone this morning so didn't have time to check the links

I'd actually been considering nominating a jazz album! I'm a big fan of Nina Simone and really want to see her get a week, but have no idea what album to nominate.

Leaning toward Pastel Blues but could also see arguments for Little Girl Blue, Nina Simone Sings the Blues, I Put a Spell on You, or High Priestess of Soul

I don't really know Jazz and everyone I've talked to about it seems to have at least an informal education in music. That's knowledge I just don't have. As a result it's a far more intimidating genre to me than any other, including Classical.

Johnbobb posted...

I'd actually been considering nominating a jazz album! I'm a big fan of Nina Simone and really want to see her get a week, but have no idea what album to nominate.

Leaning toward Pastel Blues but could also see arguments for Little Girl Blue, Nina Simone Sings the Blues, I Put a Spell on You, or High Priestess of Soul

I very nearly nominated Pastel Blues (the only Simone album I know well) as one of my three! I only steered away from it because I thought a vocal jazz album would win easily against instrumental stuff. You should definitely nominate something by her though, I think it would be a great choice.

Bump

27 Questions
Dangerous Liasions
The Defence
Still
Eat Men Eat
Sugar/Tzu
Welcome To Hell
The Race Is About To Begin
Hellfire

Definitely an interesting album, but I wasn't really feeling it. I'll probably need to play this several times to "get" it, but it is good enough to warrant replays.

I just listened to the title track as a sample and... this is going to be a ride, isn't it?

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I just listened to the title track as a sample and... this is going to be a ride, isn't it?

Yes it is, but right now all three of us that have provided early rankings have Hellfire in last place so it might not be the best sample to judge off of.

Hey this group is opening for King Gizzard close to me

cant go but if they are linked this should be interesting

bump

bmbmbump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga8K_diGviw

up

I was excited to see this album up for ranking - I'm a big fan of Sugar/Tzu and I'm glad I got to experience the rest of the album.

1. Sugar/Tzu
2. Welcome To Hell
3. Hellfire
4. The Race Is About To Begin (to me the middle part of this exceeds anything else from the album, but I wasnt into the beginning and end at all)
5. 27 Questions
6. Dangerous Liaisons
7. Eat Men Eat
8. The Defence
9. Still

I enjoyed the more aggressive/intense parts of the album a lot more than the calmer ones.

I've only had time to listen to this album twice this week, but I've had fun with it! It's certainly a striking piece of work and wrapping my head around it has been enjoyable, but I must admit that I don't actually like it all that much - the vaudeville theatricality and deadpan emotional distance of it all is just gives off more "prodigious theater kid energy" than I can personally stomach. I could probably write a book about how Black Midi and BC,NR have taken similar conceptual paths in the last two years (trading in their early punk snarl for bombast and lush arrangements) yet ended up in completely different places - BC,NR becoming Arcade Fire and BM becoming... I dunno, Mr. Bungle? - but this probably isn't the place for that.

Generally, since none of this made a real emotional impact on me, I was torn here between the songs where I enjoyed the lyrical narratives and the ones where I enjoyed the music (sadly, they didn't often align). I think if you gave me another month with this record, I'd rank it completely differently, but for now:

1. Eat Men Eat
2. Still
3. Sugar/Tzu
4. 27 Questions
5. Welcome To Hell
6. The Defence
7. Hellfire
8. The Race Is About To Begin
9. Dangerous Liaisons

Last day to vote

1. Sugar/Tzu
2. 27 Questions
3. Still
4. Eat Men Eat
5. The Defence
6. The Race is About to Begin
7. Dangerous Liaisons
8. Welcome to Hell
9. Hellfire
10. Half Time (Just for completeness...)

Two more listens and I never enjoyed this as much as I did on my blind initial listen. I think a big part of that is just the nature of those 2nd and 3rd times being about figuring out a ranking, rather than just taking in the album. For me, there's no particular stand out songs here, at least in terms of singles I'm likely to want to revisit. Which is to say that I think this is better as a holistic album experience, rather than a bunch of individual songs.

1. Sugar/Tzu
2. The Race is About to Begin
3. Welcome to Hell
4. Hellfire
5. Eat Men Eat
6. 27 Questions
7. Still
8. Dangerous Liaisons
9. The Defence

I don't know how to explain this album at all but I really dug it

Was anyone else planning to participate? We have lower numbers than usual here, which is not entirely unexpected, but a few people also commented or tagged without actually voting so I figure it is worth asking.

1. Eat Men Eat
2. Welcome to Hell
3. Sugar/Tzu
4. The Race is About to Begin
5. Still
6. 27 Questions
7. Dangerous Liaisons
8. The Defence
9. Hellfire
10. Half Time*

This album freakin' rules.

I'm going to assume that's all and am preparing the next topic - so, I'll give five minutes in case anyone saw this and started listening to at least say something; otherwise, I'll put the next topic up in a bit.

FoolFantastic posted...

Was anyone else planning to participate? We have lower numbers than usual here, which is not entirely unexpected, but a few people also commented or tagged without actually voting so I figure it is worth asking.

I had family in town and only got one listen in. I could probably listen again later today but it was a busy week

neonreaper posted...

I had family in town and only got one listen in. I could probably listen again later today but it was a busy week

If you want to! I could always put the next thread up now and hold off on posting the results for this until you vote.

Sugar/Tzu
Eat Men Eat
Welcome to Hell
Dangerous Liaisons
Still
The Race is About to Begin
The Defence
Hellfire
27 Questions
Half Time

Ill post more commentary next week.

I think this was 3 songs I like, 3 I was OK with, and 3 I just wasnt feeling. I do appreciate how this album made me think about Mr Bungle!

Sorry, my mind was in too many other places this past week. Didn't feel like doing this for whatever reason.

Will get a Kylie listen in this week for sure though.

I only just managed to get in my third spin a little while ago, my bad (though also, thank you for holding). Here's a ranking:

1. Eat Men Eat
2. Sugar/Tzu
3. Hellfire
4. Still
5. The Race is About to Begin
6. 27 Questions
7. Welcome to Hell
8. Dangerous Liaisons
9. The Defence