Current Events > Can toxic people change?

(+) Yeah! (+)

For several years, I had an on-again off-again friendship with a certain person online who was 20% solid friend, and 80% manipulative creepy, soul-sucking, and abusive. They claimed to have a rare personality disorder and some other mental affliction (but never elaborated on that part), but refused to seek treatment. One of the things that apparently can help is group sessions, but the doctor who diagnosed them refused to refer them to one, saying it might be damaging or dangerous for the other participants.

A couple of years ago (or was it just one?) I finally had had enough and blocked them, thanks to some advice from you folks.

They recently added me back to their friend list. Like...I think the correct choice is to ignore the friend request, but I'm currently having a rough time and don't have any friends at all. In terms of being in the gutter, my life is near rock bottom. They used to say that me being friends with them was special and meant a lot to them. I thought that was perhaps pure manipulation, but I've since read that people with their personality disorder can in fact have like one or two friends they latch on two and absolutely nobody else. I'd also like to believe people can change.

CEMen, guide me with your wisdom. No seriously, I'm stuck and need actual advice here.

That person isn't worth your trouble, but other toxic people can change. I think I was shitty to a lot of people on this board who didn't deserve it.

some can. i did

this person sounds like a complete waste of your time though. I'd cut ties and leave the request ignored

Within a year? Nah prob not

In the end you have to make the decision for yourself, since only you have the full context. Ill say that its a bit alarming that youre thinking about doing so only because youre at rock bottom. Sounds like your judgement might be impaired. If that person is anything like you said, they could drag you further down.

If youre in a vulnerable state this sounds like a bad idea

I would've blocked them the fuck off just based on that first paragraph alone. The hell? I don't have time to babysit other people's baggage issues.

Just do what your gut instinct tells you.

Can they? Yes. Will they? Unlikely.

They have to want to change. You can't force them to. I personally would not seek out this person, you have no reason to believe they've changed.

Do not let your loneliness blind you.

For me personally that can be a tough one, if you fuck up to the point I stop giving a shit about you, it is really fucking hard to get me to care about you again. I don't cut people out of my life I just make them not want to be a part of it and I can hold grudges, but for the most part I don't because it isn't healthy and it really takes a lot for me to hold one.

But I don't consider myself to be very typical in terms of social interactions and when it comes to people asking me for advice in regards to this, I tell them, "Really really think about it, odds are you already know the answer and the reason you're asking is because you want to go against your better judgment and are looking for validation."

So now let me ask you, what do you really really think the answer is?(and I don't mean in general for your question, but for this specific person.)

Any relationship you have is under your terms. You can specifically be like, hey I really don't like when you do this thing. If they breach that, break off.

darkmaian23 posted...

For several years, I had an on-again off-again friendship with a certain person online who was 20% solid friend, and 80% manipulative creepy, soul-sucking, and abusive. They claimed to have a rare personality disorder and some other mental affliction (but never elaborated on that part), but refused to seek treatment.

This should be the biggest red flag for you to not associate with this person anymore.

If they're going to be a burden on you, it's fair that you expect them to at least have some desire to NOT be a burden on you. If they want your charity and sympathy, they have to show you at least some respect and appreciation. And that should start with seeking help for themselves.

Do not take responsibility for irresponsible people.

CEMen, guide me with your wisdom.

Sorry, but I lol'ed at this.

Shawn michaels.

Tenaku posted...

Sorry, but I lol'ed at this.

Don't laugh! Although CEMen kind of have a reputation, you guys are all actually quite helpful when a serious question gets asked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI9BODamQ0U

do they strike you as the type of person who would recognize that they should change?

Toxic folks can change but they gotta hit rock bottom & genuinely work on their inner tormoils that plague their thoughts, actions, and soul. Toxicity spreads like wildfire and it takes change using a kind of inner peace in order to foster the change folks really want

PerseusRad posted...

In the end you have to make the decision for yourself, since only you have the full context. Ill say that its a bit alarming that youre thinking about doing so only because youre at rock bottom. Sounds like your judgement might be impaired. If that person is anything like you said, they could drag you further down.

Gonna echo this.

Master_Kazuya posted...

Any relationship you have is under your terms. You can specifically be like, hey I really don't like when you do this thing. If they breach that, break off.

i think this is the best general advice you can get.

If you feel like you can't keep that relationship under control and on your terms, don't rebuild the bridge. And like someone pointed out, if you also feel like you're going towards that person because you yourself are in a bad spot right now, it might not be the right time for that at all.

I'm going to be honest, hope you don't mind TC. I can't say for sure (obviously) but you might have a codependency problem. Although it may point to an unhealthy relationship; it can be extremely hard to break since both parties get something out of it. Your friend gets "attention" and you get "self esteem from being needed". The question is no longer "can toxic people change?". It is "do I need to change?"

Again, I can't say for sure. Please read some resource and decide for yourself. For example (emphasis mine):

They have good intentions. They try to take care of a person who is experiencing difficulty, but the caretaking becomes compulsive and defeating. Co-dependents often take on a martyrs role and become benefactors to an individual in need. A wife may cover for her alcoholic husband; a mother may make excuses for a truant child; or a father may pull some strings to keep his child from suffering the consequences of delinquent behavior.

The problem is that these repeated rescue attempts allow the needy individual to continue on a destructive course and to become even more dependent on the unhealthy caretaking of the benefactor. As this reliance increases, the co-dependent develops a sense of reward and satisfaction from being needed. When the caretaking becomes compulsive, the co-dependent feels choiceless and helpless in the relationship, but is unable to break away from the cycle of behavior that causes it. Co-dependents view themselves as victims and are attracted to that same weakness in the love and friendship relationships.

https://www.mhanational.org/co-dependency

I made the decision to block them. Thanks for the support guys!

They have to want to change and then they will change on their own. You can't change them.

If they were abusive towards you, then you made then right choice is shutting down that line of contact. Try to hang in there and stay positive, though.

darkmaian23 posted...

I made the decision to block them. Thanks for the support guys!

Glad to hear you did what you knew you should. Thats a huge positive step for you going forward in knowing your self worth.

darkmaian23 posted...

I made the decision to block them. Thanks for the support guys!

thumbs up

People can change but only if they want to

Its almost impossible to change someone else if they dont want to change

For the better? If they have a serious moment of clarity and choose to do so yes. It's only too late to change if your dead.

they can change. they just either have to stop doing drugs, or start

VampireCoyote posted...

People can change but only if they want to

Its almost impossible to change someone else if they dont want to change

I agree with the second part? Kind of. Inception is a movie.

What is desire? What comprises authentic willingness? It seems someone only wants something if they obtain it eventually. I think it makes more sense to say people go after things that seem within reach. There are many things people want they will never have, and while they might not really end up wanting the experience I think you can still want something you can't change yourself to get

i might have given them a chance and then blocked them as soon as they started on their BS again. Sometimes you just have to see it for yourself y'know