Current Events > Does ANYONE here know much about HEADPHONES??? I need a RECOMMENDATION

(+) Yeah! (+)

I want an open-back pair of full sized headphones that don't require an external amp (I'll be using them with a portable music player).

I mostly listen to alternative and indie rock, jazz, and classical.

Ill list a few you can try in below this paragraph. Just use crinacle or oratory's frequency response graphs to get an idea of what they might sound like. Not gonna be 100% accurate but still way better than most reviewers imho.

Focal elex/clear/utopia v1/utopia v2, sennheiser hd560s/hd58x/hd599/hd6xx/hd650/hd600/hd800s, philips sph9500/x2hr.

These are all around 100 db per mw sensitivity. Some up to 104 db per mw like hd560s and focal utopia version 1.

I'm confident any of these would sound loud enough for rock and jazz without an amp. Ive used the hd560s, utopia v1, hd800s, hd6xx, and hd600 on my phone and they got loud enough for those genres. Ive also loaned my cousin a hd800s for 2 weeks who just used it on his laptop. Got plenty loud for him he told me but I think he mainly listens to pop music which are very compressed. For classical music it gets iffy since some of the songs need a lot of volume. I'm less confident with these headphones getting loud enough without an amp for classical music lol.

Get a sennheiser

I really like my sennheiser 560s

Ratchetrockon posted...

@Ratchetrockon
Thanks for the response. So I currently own the SHP9500 and HD579. I definitely like the HD579 better, although there is something minor about vocals, especially higher-pitched/ female vocals that seems a bit off with them, like they lack energy.

I was mainly looking at the 6xx or 560s, but my main worry is if they're worth using without an amp. Some people that even if they get loud enough without an amp, they don't sound as good. Is that true, or is it 'audiophile' nonsense?

Sputnik1337 posted...

I really like my sennheiser 560s

@Sputnik1337
Nice. Do you use a dedicated amp or what do you play them from?

Why are you yelling at us

MICHALECOLE posted...

Why are you yelling at us

I figure people who know a lot about headphones might be hard of hearing

sutree posted...

Thanks for the response. So I currently own the SHP9500 and HD579. I definitely like the HD579 better, although there is something minor about vocals, especially higher-pitched/ female vocals that seems a bit off with them, like they lack energy.

I was mainly looking at the 6xx or 560s, but my main worry is if they're worth using without an amp. Some people that even if they get loud enough without an amp, they don't sound as good. Is that true, or is it 'audiophile' nonsense?

Regarding the female vocals on the hd579. Looking at crinacle's chart the most likely culprit for the lack of energy is the dip in the 800 hz to 2k hz range.

579 vs 9500

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/5/3/AAZsuhAADyeB.jpg

579 vs hd560s

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/3/AAZsuhAADyd3.jpg

579 vs hd650/hd6xx. hd6xx = hd650

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/3/7/AAZsuhAADydx.jpg

The dip in the midrange is also present in most hifiman headphones and sennheiser's hd800s. So id avoid those if you like prominent female vocals. For even more volume in that frequency range look into Stax headphones but those require their own special amps (tend to be called "energizers").

Regarding amps... There are basically two types: Neutral amps that don't change the frequency response of headphones. Non-neutral amps that do change the frequency response of headphones.

As for neutral amps improving sound, I think it mainly boils down to them being able to get headphones much louder so they sound more engaging and better. I think they are mainly needed for less efficient headphones to sound engaging but probably depends on a person's hearing. I don't have problems with using my hd6xx and hd560s on my phone vs my rme-adi 2 dac's built in amp (very clean amp with like 0.5 ohm output impedance).

Dirty amps with high output impedance (like tubes and vintage ss amps w/ 120+ ohm output impedance) do change the frequency response of headphones (mainly dynamic driver headphones because they have non-linear impedance curves) because of the way their high output impedance interacts with a headphone's impedance curve (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html). The change is typically just a boost in the bass and/or low mids region for dynamic driver headphones but it varies. Some might prefer the changes that occur from using a less neutral amp.

these ones are pretty good TC
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-Over-Audiophile-Headphones/dp/B08J9MVB6W/

sutree posted...

Nice. Do you use a dedicated amp or what do you play them from?

I've used them to listen to music on my phone as well as while playing my Switch and Vita and they sound fine. At my PC I run them through my GSX 1000.

I have Sennheiser HD560s and you can clearly hear every instrument and effect and their spacing from each other. But it leaves the vocals feeling not special. There's a lot of songs I get in my Spotify music discovery where there's a masterful mix of instruments and interesting sounds and then what feels like "just some dude's" voice accompanying them. I've been told some other headphones are more "vocals forward" but idk, these are my first hifi set.

Doe posted...

I have Sennheiser HD560s and you can clearly hear every instrument and effect and their spacing from each other. But it leaves the vocals feeling not special. There's a lot of songs I get in my Spotify music discovery where there's a masterful mix of instruments and interesting sounds and then what feels like "just some dude's" voice accompanying them. I've been told some other headphones are more "vocals forward" but idk, these are my first hifi set.

Yeah there are more midforward headphones than hd560s. The hd6xx has slightly more emphasis on vocals for example prob due to reduced treble (can be seen in oratory's graphs). Altho not a major difference imo.

The most vocal forward headphone I have is prob the sr007mk2.9 (blutac modded). I think it achieves this by reduction of treble and also has a mild bump in its 1k hz region. It does have some odd dip as shown in the graph around 1.2 khz but is not noticeable in person. Its my fave headphone for watching movies cuz it makes the character voices pop out more than the background noise. I also add a subbass eq so I can hear the bass rumble easier

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/1/9/AAZsuhAADylT.jpg

Sennheiser HD280 Pros are perfect for everyone. They are my regular go-to for studio work. Mixdowns are typically done with DT990 600ohm. The HD280s are 64ohm, but still work great without a mobile amp. Also, I run my gear through a Motu M2.

@Ratchetrockon

I don't understand the relation between the impedance and sensitivity of headphone in relation to how easy they are to power.

For example:
The HD579 has impedance of 50ohm and sensitivity of 99.93 dB/mW
The HD560s has impedance of 150ohm and sensitivity of 104.00 dB/mW SPL

Most people would say the HD560s is harder to drive since it has a higher impedance. The sensitivity is higher though, so how would they be harder to drive?

I just use my trusty MDR-7506s

sutree posted...

@Ratchetrockon

I don't understand the relation between the impedance and sensitivity of headphone in relation to how easy they are to power.

For example:
The HD579 has impedance of 50ohm and sensitivity of 99.93 dB/mW
The HD560s has impedance of 150ohm and sensitivity of 104.00 dB/mW SPL

Most people would say the HD560s is harder to drive since it has a higher impedance. The sensitivity is higher though, so how would they be harder to drive?

I'm seeing 106 db per mw for HD579 so it is easier to drive than the HD560s.

As for impedance, it is still pretty important for judging how much power a particular device can give to a headphone. For example, some devices can output around 1500 mw at 32 ohms but at 300 ohms it might be limited to around 300 mw (im using my rme adi 2 dac as an example). This is when sensitivity comes in.

The arya v2 (2020 version) has an impedance of 38 ohms and a sensitivity of 90 db per mw.
To drive it to 110 db requires around 100 mw of power, 1.95 VRMS, and 51.3 mA (current).

The hd800s has an impedance of 300 ohms and a sensitivity of 100 db per milliwatt.
To drive it to 110 db requires around 10 mw of power, 1.73 VRMS, and 5.8 mA (current).

So the hd800s is easier to drive to 110 db than the arya despite having higher impedance. Every 3 db requires a doubling in power.

I just this tool: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/ which calculates everything relevant.

I looked into some portable audio devices and was really surprised by how much more powerful they are than my initial estimation. It seems like some may be able to drive some low-impedance and low-sensitivity headphones (like Arya v2). I'd like to know what portable audio player you are using we might be able to find its specs online somewhere.

NwavGuy can explain the power stuff much better than I so I recommend reading his blog. He is an electrical engineer that kickstarted the "objective" side of audiophile community and is the creator of the Objective 2 amp and ObjectiveDac (budget amp and dac that measured better than more expensive stuff from like a decade ago). That said, I wouldn't recommend his products anymore because some better stuff for around the same price or cheaper have been released since his time.

Link: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html

I'm actually in the process of buying a new audio player as well, since my old faithful Sansa Clip finally died on me.

I was thinking about the Hiby R3 Pro or Pro Saber. Here are some specs:
Pro on the left, Pro Saber on the right
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/6/6/AAaBIHAADy6W.png