Current Events > Which is usually most harmful to the enjoyment of a story?

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hearing that tc likes it heh heh

Writing for sure.

Game of Thrones and Titans are proof enough of that.

Bad characters can hurt it, but bad writing will kill it

Writing for sure.

I'm not seeing a differentiation here. Bad writing encapsulates both bad plot and bad characters. It's not very often that something has bad writing and yet somehow a good plot or good characters (even the GoT example wouldn't fit, as the characters became liked as a result of previously good writing, and loads of people were annoyed at how bad said characters were written and thereby portrayed in the final season).

Bad writing is the core here.

'bad writing' could just refer to the syntax of the work and we can try and separate that from the ideas it has -- the plot, the characters, the setting.

i'd also lump in any examples of bad pacing with that. like maybe you got a book you like but it's got that part.

since "subverting expectations" is on writing category, then writing it is.

Bad plot is just boring plot. Nonsensical plot is bad writing.

A bad plot can still be entertaining if the characters and dialogue and setting are interesting.

I can usually handle all that stuff as long as the story is literate and about something I like. Don't really read for pleasure so there is a lot of stuff I would like that I will just never read.

All of that is kind of the same thing imo

To me though one sign that a show's writing sucks is constantly relying on cheap drama like "omg is he dead...nope he lived" sort of stuff too often

Bad Characters. Interesting characters in a bland plot is better than a interesting plot with bland characters.

Mostly the writing. Like I can't read machine translated stuff and enjoy it even if the plot is "good". There are other examples that aren't as extreme but hard for me to articulate well without looking up relevant terms and concepts. I just instinctively gravitate towards particular writing styles over others.

I do care about the characters a little bit as well. I've had to quit a story because the main character had some horrible thoughts about a particular group of people. It was a semi-autobiographical so it was pretty much the author's real thoughts which got me really angry .

kawalimus posted...

To me though one sign that a show's writing sucks is constantly relying on cheap drama like "omg is he dead...nope he lived" sort of stuff too often

The Great Ace Attorney is super-guilty of this. I never believed for a second that Kazuma was actually dead.

Bad plot/premise makes it more likely I won't give it a chance, bad writing makes it less likely ill enjoy it if I watch it.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Bad plot/premise makes it more likely I won't give it a chance, bad writing makes it less likely ill enjoy it if I watch it.

I dunno, I think a bad plot/premise could lead to the others occurring. It's like building a house on a shitty foundation. Maybe the actual masonry and framing was done well but you're still going to have issues if the base isn't level or something.

Likewise if a story is built on a stupid premise then the way the characters act or how the story has to take shape ends up having to conform to that, even if there are sparks of good writing found within. Could be written well but you always look at the overarching direction of the story (because it's got that weak underlying plot) and you just can't get into it because everything feels so disjointed at its core.

All of the above somehow describes Douglas Adams, and his stuff is great.