Board 8 > Eff 2021 Mafia: Topic 4 - Chris Harrison Somehow Getting Even Worse

(+) Yeah! (+)

I suppose the main point should be that his intention was to elicit information, as demonstrated by his regret in choosing SBell.

People like Tidus, maybe

anyway i feel i've said my piece on this matter for the time being

to attend to more pressing matters

##Vote: Scare

actually there's an interesting dynamic here if Ben and Scare are both scum. Scare doesn't actually have to be the one who shot the shot, he could be any scum role and just claim the shot as a clear. Meanwhile Ben is probably angling to sacrifice himself this whole time and so he might feel his role is disposable.

although last game he was ready to sacrifice himself and he was roleblocker so that may not track

Plum day 1 went

CORRIK SCUM

Corrik scum

Corrik hella scum

Oh Ben is scum

We let isquen live to shoot scare

Isquen wouldn't claim day vig if he couldn't shoot

Oh Ben is lying

Corrik you orate well

Ben is opportunistic scum

Isquen might be SK maybe

I'm voting isquen cuz corrik is orating well

*votes isquen*

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Chang's role is less important than eating a roleblock.

Hmmm. Possible. Fair enough.

What is inherently Scummy about Scare right now?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

What is inherently Scummy about Scare right now?

How often do games have 2 town vigs?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

What is inherently Scummy about Scare right now?

"2 vigs can't be real" argument, is the only thing to hang their hats on as far as i can tell currently.

Obellisk posted...

"2 vigs can't be real" argument, is the only thing to hang their hats on as far as i can tell currently.

With the arsonist, scum, and 2 day vigs that can shoot wrong. That's a lot of killing power... in either direction.

I need to see some roles to setup the game regarding this, but I mean... let's say scum arsonist and "both town vigs" hit town. They could be going south quickly.

Also there wasn't another kill at night tonight, so we think town got 2 vigs and scum doesn't have an extra kill (so far)?

Thats farfetch'd

I guess 2 town vigs has the same potential as 1 town vig and 1 scum extra kill at screwing town. But it has a lot of potential to kill scum too. I need more flips.

Isquen posted...

Did I check the gun via a day action? Oh good, it's a blank. Pew pew!

Did I fail to do so? Pew BLAM! And then I'm never allowed near a gun again.

This is why I said Isquen was one-shot. I knew I read it somewhere.

Corrik7 posted...

How often do games have 2 town vigs?

More than zero times.

Corrik7 posted...

With the arsonist, scum, and 2 day vigs that can shoot wrong. That's a lot of killing power... in either direction.

I need to see some roles to setup the game regarding this, but I mean... let's say scum arsonist and "both town vigs" hit town. They could be going south quickly.

Also there wasn't another kill at night tonight, so we think town got 2 vigs and scum doesn't have an extra kill (so far)?

Thats farfetch'd

Perhaps so! Or Scum has extra stuff.

I mean, two Town killing roles seems like a lot, but Town vigs aren't necessarily known for accuracy. A SK always acts as a balancing role. And a Scum Doublevoter would be balancing to two Town killers as well.

Here's another key factor - Scum dayvig is wayyyy strong. In fact, if I wanted to role meta, I might say that a Scum Fireproof is more likely in this set-up than a Scum Dayvig.

A Scum Dayvig who can shoot on Day 1 without needing any set-up can kill off a Town power player on what, minute 1? No counterplay? It's rough.

I'm confused by Chang here

I can understand trying to check SBell, but it doesn't all track. Chang is a good player and admits immediately that he knows scum would know not to bite on that. But if you're doing that play the whole thing would be get reads about the others responding to him and Sbell, but he retracted very quickly.

The only way I think this could make any sense if he were scum is that scum are weak and have no roleblocker. This is a Fuck game so it would be very unlikely for that to be. Like to consider Chang scum either someone else needs to later claim a block last night or a multi use bus driver would need to flip

those seem very specific and much easier to just say Chang is town that poorly played a gambit

TotallyNotMI posted...

I also had a thought exercise I want everyone to go on with me.

Assume Scare is scum.
Assume Scare was truthful about shooting during the stop.

Why would scum panic shoot during the stop?

I thought BCT and SBell might both be getting modkilled.

If one or more of them is scum, scum might have wanted to use their shot to balance their loses.

Thoughts?

Han what are your thoughts on this hypothetical

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Here's another key factor - Scum dayvig is wayyyy strong. In fact, if I wanted to role meta, I might say that a Scum Fireproof is more likely in this set-up than a Scum Dayvig.

A Scum Dayvig who can shoot on Day 1 without needing any set-up can kill off a Town power player on what, minute 1? No counterplay? It's rough.

So you believe scare shot because he was "worried he was being shot during the stop"? That isn't even how actions resolve. And the stop happening cuz of BCT seems way too quick.

I've been thinking about Ben and I could see Fireproof being a scum role here, especially given that town had at least one unblockable day shot. Because of that, if Scare is town, I think that makes it more likely that Ben is scum. However, I feel like it's unlikely that Ben and Scare are both scum. If they were together and were both wrong about Isquen, it would have and in fact did open the door to Scare looking terrible.

plum, for clarity, do you think that Ben is lying about being Fireproof regardless of alignment? Just curious cause you said he was probably lying even if Isquen was Fireproof.

Thinking on it a little more Chang could be scum if scum have a Day Roleblocker. Claiming he just wanted to get it out that he was RB'd quickly makes a bit more sense for that play with that on the table.

Still, leaning town, but wanted to note what I was thinkkng

Just realized day 2 deadline is while I'll be at avatar 2. Random.

changmas posted...

happy to discuss this post-game, i can't explain with information i'm comfortable revealing at this time

People who say "Let's discuss this post game" are town 100% of the time lol. Scum knows that's a bad look for them

for what it's worth, I don't like digging into mechanics of pms or things like that, but there are aspects of Isquen's pm that were similiar to mind. A big part of why I paniced at the stop and thought 'now or never'

Chaeix posted...

I've been thinking about Ben and I could see Fireproof being a scum role here, especially given that town had at least one unblockable day shot. Because of that, if Scare is town, I think that makes it more likely that Ben is scum. However, I feel like it's unlikely that Ben and Scare are both scum. If they were together and were both wrong about Isquen, it would have and in fact did open the door to Scare looking terrible.

plum, for clarity, do you think that Ben is lying about being Fireproof regardless of alignment? Just curious cause you said he was probably lying even if Isquen was Fireproof.

I think Ben's play has been worse than Scares so far from actual play. But, scares shooting reasoning is hella bs and a town vig flipped is ofc screaming the odds are he is scum.

ScareChan posted...

for what it's worth, I don't like digging into mechanics of pms or things like that, but there are aspects of Isquen's pm that were similiar to mind. A big part of why I paniced at the stop and thought 'now or never'

can you clarify this?

you were panicking about aspects of Isquen's PM during the stop? what aspects were public during the stop?

Chaeix posted...

can you clarify this?

you were panicking about aspects of Isquen's PM during the stop? what aspects were public during the stop?

...No. There are similarities in my pm. And I got concerend at the Stop. As in I know that a stop can mean a shot is on the way

TotallyNotMI posted...

Han what are your thoughts on this hypothetical

Corrik7 posted...

So you believe scare shot because he was "worried he was being shot during the stop"? That isn't even how actions resolve. And the stop happening cuz of BCT seems way too quick.

Scare very obviously was intending to claim his shot immediately after the Stop resolved. This is fact.
If Scare was going to claim his shot no matter what, then why would he also then lie about when he sent it in? That's completely pointless.

And if Suprak is keeping up with the game, then it is his duty to hit STOP as soon as possible with the rules being broken. He could've been clued in by a player in the game, co-host, observer, or just saw it himself - metaing this is pointless, only slightly less so than Scare lying about when he sent his shot in.

ScareChan posted...

...No. There are similarities in my pm. And I got concerend at the Stop. As in I know that a stop can mean a shot is on the way

But if the stop happened from a shot at you, it didn't matter if you shot. You were already dead at that point.

Corrik7 posted...

But if the stop happened from a shot at you, it didn't matter if you shot. You were already dead at that point.

I was going to argue that it was a Stop and that the result had not happened so it would have been simultaneous

ScareChan posted...

I was going to argue that it was a Stop and that the result had not happened so it would have been simultaneous

Lmfao really. No way you believe that.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Scare very obviously was intending to claim his shot immediately after the Stop resolved. This is fact.
If Scare was going to claim his shot no matter what, then why would he also then lie about when he sent it in? That's completely pointless.

And if Suprak is keeping up with the game, then it is his duty to hit STOP as soon as possible with the rules being broken. He could've been clued in by a player in the game, co-host, observer, or just saw it himself - metaing this is pointless, only slightly less so than Scare lying about when he sent his shot in.

I don't think Corrik is getting at him lying about when he sent it in, rather why he sent it in.

I feel if any host would entertain it, Suprak would at least hear me out

My logic leaps a couple steps at a time sometimes, you know this

Oops

TotallyNotMI posted...

Han what are your thoughts on this hypothetical

I don't think it really makes sense. Why would they rush the kill? And Lopen still isn't the best choice for Scum. I think the hypothetical only approaches sense if SBell or BCT is the dayvig, and since they think they're being modkilled, they try to squeeze in the kill hoping Suprak will give it to them out of pity.

And then forcing them to keep the quick shot ends up Suprak's punishment for breaking the rules, instead of modkilling.

Still catching up but I want to say I was so depressed on that Isquen flip. I feel bad because I think I drug the day down so much yesterday banking on him being scum. And I feel exactly like Han did where his play did not make any sense coming from anything but town, and I KNEW this, but moved forward anyway because his claim fit the description of an arsonist exactly and I didn't think there could be that much killing power.

Now I'm back to thinking what I should have been thinking, which is that anything is possible.

Chaeix posted...

I don't think Corrik is getting at him lying about when he sent it in, rather why he sent it in.

Why lie at all? Scare was already saying he thought Lopen looked bad.

PunishedBen posted...

Still catching up but I want to say I was so depressed on that Isquen flip. I feel bad because I think I drug the day down so much yesterday banking on him being scum. And I feel exactly like Han did where his play did not make any sense coming from anything but town, and I KNEW this, but moved forward anyway because his claim fit the description of an arsonist exactly and I didn't think there could be that much killing power.

Now I'm back to thinking what I should have been thinking, which is that anything is possible.

Only thing making me not want to lynch scare is this dude posting. Lol.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Why lie at all? Scare was already saying he thought Lopen looked bad.

I mean if he's scum he's starting from the point of lying?

PunishedBen posted...

Isquen, I scanned you as Arsonist. What's up with that?

(post 3.283)

First mention of arsonist.

How did Ben know there was an arsonist? How did Ben "scan" Isquen as a role he was not? If Ben is fireproof, how does he have a scanning ability too?

This does not look good because Ben was clearly trying to get Isquen to be the target. I do want Ben to explain this.

Han. Since you think Fireproof and double voter could be scum.

Do you think Ben and BCT could be scum together?

I do mention this because Ben's biggest gaffe this game has been about the suprak account which BCT didn't intend to reveal was him either.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Corrik made a good point there. Sbell commiting to making no move instead of being vague does look townie.

to be fair SBell was steady as a rock when I implied I scanned him in Elden Ring too. I wouldn't put it past ScumBell to no-sell it (not that I have a scum read on him or anything, just floating it out there)

##Vote: BCT

MZero posted...

to be fair SBell was steady as a rock when I implied I scanned him in Elden Ring too. I wouldn't put it past ScumBell to no-sell it (not that I have a scum read on him or anything, just floating it out there)

##Vote: BCT

My god, you are just like Sultan last game. Please stop being blatant scum.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

(post 3.283)

First mention of arsonist.

How did Ben know there was an arsonist? How did Ben "scan" Isquen as a role he was not? If Ben is fireproof, how does he have a scanning ability too?

This does not look good because Ben was clearly trying to get Isquen to be the target. I do want Ben to explain this.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/5/9/AAJ38fAAD_Nv.jpg

ScareChan posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/5/9/AAJ38fAAD_Nv.jpg

Lolol

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

Okay, so let's say Isquen was, in fact, the one who killed Lopen. The shot wasn't quite 24 hours into the day, and he claimed that he didn't use the power Night 0 (which is fine, I wouldn't have used it pre-game either)... but something is rotten in Denmark.

Ergo, Scare probably had a vigilante shot separate from Isquen. And since Isquen was town, Scare probably isn't. He claimed before Isquen and that makes it look suspicious. I think he's being honest about his flavor but not his alignment. Lopen was acting the towniest of the town, so since Isquen flipped town and I am town, that means Death and Corrik should absolutely be looked at - there has to be SOME reason scum killed Lopen so swiftly. Hangut was already pointing toward those two late into D1. I trust Hangut, unless it incorrectly points toward me like it did here. That part I don't trust, the rest I do.

Ben reeks of suspicion given Isquen's flip too, so let's not let him get away. Him being so dodgy doesn't look good for him, and his fireproof fakeclaim was AFTER he said he'd scanned Isquen as arsonist... which was a total lie. Ben is thus confirmed scum. We don't need to elaborate further. Play with fire, you get burned.

Lastly, MZero keeps trying to push my mislynch despite no justification and nobody else thinking that, which makes him blatant scum too. Only scum or really bad town tries to lazily push a mislynch out of nowhere. Either way, there's really no use in keeping MZero alive, since that's not good for town, but we got bigger fish to fry.

Ben, Scare, Death, Corrik, MZero. Does this sound plausible to you? Death is the one I'm most doubtful on, but let's just get the most obvious out of the way:

Read 1: Countered
Read 2: Fake-claimed
Read 3: Voting me

also let's kill Corrik and death because (?)

these are like the easiest reads in the world to fake

Being fireproof is technically NAI, but come on man look what you posted. You answered yourself

BlueCrystalTear posted...

(post 3.283)

First mention of arsonist.

How did Ben know there was an arsonist? How did Ben "scan" Isquen as a role he was not? If Ben is fireproof, how does he have a scanning ability too?

This does not look good because Ben was clearly trying to get Isquen to be the target. I do want Ben to explain this.

@corrik does BCT ask this if he's scum with ben lol

Chaeix posted...

@corrik does BCT ask this if he's scum with ben lol

I think BCT is town. I'm asking what Han thinks.

But lolololol

Chaeix posted...

I mean if he's scum he's starting from the point of lying?

I'm saying if he's planning on claiming Dayvig no matter what, he can just say he shot Lopen because he thought he was Scum. The idea of using a mid-day stop as an excuse is just, like, nobody comes up with that. It's not a strategic thought. Gut-fear is way more sensible of an explanation.

Here's a fun post tho:
[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Lea being cheeky but revealing she's Scumbuddies with Scare?????

I actually had a dumb conspiracy thought, but it's that Lopen was right about BCT being Scum, BCT shot Lopen (via the Suprak slot), and then Scare claimed the shot as Scum. I don't think this is likely, but

Anyway, Corrik, do me a favor - pretend Ben and Scare are dead. Can you convince me to join you on someone else?

ScareChan posted...

Being fireproof is technically NAI, but come on man look what you posted. You answered yourself

Yes, I answered that question.

But my point of discussion was: How did Ben both know there was an arsonist and scan Isquen?

##vote:MZero

Does it matter which obvscum I'm on?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Yes, I answered that question.

But my point of discussion was: How did Ben both know there was an arsonist and scan Isquen?

##vote:MZero

Does it matter which obvscum I'm on?

<img src="https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/5/9/AAJ38fAAD_Nv.jpg">

BCT do you still think Ben is scum?