Board 8 > Eff 2021 Mafia: Topic 4 - Chris Harrison Somehow Getting Even Worse

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hmm

Yeah I am good with an sbell claim before anything else

Though can people please stop feeding scum what you caught them with.

Just a demand of an sbell claim would have been fine

Changs lying through his teeth.

Question is if it's a town gambit or a scum gambit.

scum gambit is just a 1 for 1.

town gambit just outs roles. and with no dead scum, that's bad mafia.

Obellisk posted...

That is funny, since I didn't get up last night. But it's a nice try.

Fair enough.

sorry guys false alarm. SBell might've been the wrong person to try this bluff on. A very calm response which doesn't really tell me all that much.

I was roleblocked last night so I presume any scum player would be relatively unphased by anything I claimed, but so might an innocent townie with nothing to hide. thought it was worth the random stab at a player currently active to get a gut instinct response though

Interesting response. Claim or die, sbell.

I am curious if Ben is scum means this is a case of Corrik knowing too much.

I think Ben being scum makes corrik more likely to be scum than town Ben. I don't think Corrik tries to railroad off of town onto another town.

In fact if Ben does happen to be town Corrik is Town Locked

changmas posted...

Fair enough.

sorry guys false alarm. SBell might've been the wrong person to try this bluff on. A very calm response which doesn't really tell me all that much.

I was roleblocked last night so I presume any scum player would be relatively unphased by anything I claimed, but so might an innocent townie with nothing to hide. thought it was worth the random stab at a player currently active to get a gut instinct response though

Wait... what...

Chang I'm sorta pissed off that you a) chose me b) outted yourself with no information from your power.

more b than a frankly.

changmas posted...

Fair enough.

sorry guys false alarm. SBell might've been the wrong person to try this bluff on. A very calm response which doesn't really tell me all that much.

I was roleblocked last night so I presume any scum player would be relatively unphased by anything I claimed, but so might an innocent townie with nothing to hide. thought it was worth the random stab at a player currently active to get a gut instinct response though

What

Corrik7 posted...

##vote: chang

This is a scum vote

##Vote:Ben

That said, in retrospect, Isquen was obvtown. His claim made no sense from a Scum perspective. I let emotion cloud me there, as well as Ben's claim and MI encouraging me to stick with it, when the truth was that I was just trying to force a Scum perspective into a claim that really wasn't Scummy. Ben's claim seemed to push it in that direction and then when Isquen said he should have targeted me night 0 for my words day 1, it was just so weird of a statement that it read like a flailing lie at the time.

I say none of this to apologize for Isquen's lynch, but rather to suggest we don't fall into the same mistake with Ben. His claim makes less sense from a Scum perspective. That would be counting on Ben to put himself and Scare on the line to try to hunt down a SK, hoping that the SK death exonerates Scare. While that is possible, we're also talking about trading two Scum for one. It's such a gambit that it's hard to believe offhand that they would try it.

Secondly, while I'm much more open to the idea of Scare being Scum, I still don't like it. I mean, it could have just been an opportunistic shot and Scare wanted to get a claim out because he doesn't have any time for Mafia anymore, but it still feels like a nonsensical play, especially if the shot was anonymous.

Now, I can be wrong, certainly. Scare could have not expected a town dayvig, and Ben could have gambled on Isquen counterclaiming Scare as SK... Which feels really risky, as Isquen's claim should have rung as Town to Scum... But it just feels like a really unlikely occurrence.

Yeah why are people voting non Ben or scare right now?

Obellisk posted...

Chang I'm sorta pissed off that you a) chose me b) outted yourself with no information from your power.

more b than a frankly.

sorry on point A! not sorry on point B. I'll be okay :)

This doesn't make sense from town. If he is town and gambiting, he knows scum supposedly in this scenario can't be caught by this.

It reads almost like a please confirm me as a town as I distract the fact I'm claiming roleblocked with superfluous gambiting that if im town couldn't have possibly worked...

Still all in on Ben and Scare but wtf is this

HanOfTheNekos posted...

That said, in retrospect, Isquen was obvtown. His claim made no sense from a Scum perspective.

I think this is an indictment on a scum ben who was 3rd party hunting, because I thought at lynch 3rd party was most likely. It didn't feel like a scum claim, but the way the claim unfolded was near nonsensical.

Town sometimes does absurdly scummy things I suppose, but it felt much more likely that the slow unfolding of the claim came from an anti town player trying to leave the door open than town

Did red do anything when Ben did the Arson Fire fireproof stuff that would have putted him? I remember him standing on the sidelines a lot. Wonder if Ben did draw something out that gave scum the notion of where to target.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Yeah why are people voting non Ben or scare right now?

Because Mafia is about analyzing play to find Scum, not just focusing on claims

Corrik7 posted...

This doesn't make sense from town. If he is town and gambiting, he knows scum supposedly in this scenario can't be caught by this.

It reads almost like a please confirm me as a town as I distract the fact I'm claiming roleblocked with superfluous gambiting that if im town couldn't have possibly worked...

Still all in on Ben and Scare but wtf is this

This is the complete opposite of Town Corrik

Corrik is extremely smart. Town Corrik knows that chang play is super dumb as scum and would fail to explain why exactly while everyone else jumped on chang.

This is the complete opposite where Corrik is defending bad reads well.

TL:DR

Town Corrik makes brilliant reads and communicates them terribly.
This games Corrik is making bad reads and communicating them well

Plums play was atrocious yesterday and following up stans barely playing... i am almost positive he said Ben was scum then voted isquen instead at the end. That's beyond him tunneling me as scum without reading the game while also buttering me up as "explaining myself well" while... also not having read the game.

So that was nice to see despite his limited time yesterday. Plum is more logical and usually follows my logic well. Doesn't track, but there is the caveat that again he was bsing as he went cuz he hadn't read the game.

Corrik7 posted...

This doesn't make sense from town. If he is town and gambiting, he knows scum supposedly in this scenario can't be caught by this.

It reads almost like a please confirm me as a town as I distract the fact I'm claiming roleblocked with superfluous gambiting that if im town couldn't have possibly worked...

Still all in on Ben and Scare but wtf is this

i mean i'd be surprised if most players between town and scum (with full knowledge) reacted the same way, though SBell was probably a poor choice. was just looking for someone active now who I felt more middling about to gambit on.

Oh plum ninja'd me first.

I'm getting hung up on what scum team blocks Chang.

Did he hint power d1?

TotallyNotMI posted...

Let me fast track your application with an addendum question.

Who is scum?

My top 3 are currently the following (pending anything coming from this wtf chang stuff):

Scare
SBell
ctes

Idk I just don't get town vibes from ctes. I went back to read through why he stayed on Ben before leaving and I felt like he wasn't completely sure of what he was doing. He did a lot of analysis and then just was like 'eh I'm going with my gut'.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Because Mafia is about analyzing play to find Scum, not just focusing on claims

So youre saying Ben and Scare aren't scum?

I'll need to reread ctes. I liked him prodding me but thats legit all I remember from him.

changmas posted...

i mean i'd be surprised if most players between town and scum (with full knowledge) reacted the same way, though SBell was probably a poor choice. was just looking for someone active now who I felt more middling about to gambit on.

You are in effect outing you are a "town power" supposedly to what gain? I don't understand the town mindset here. It doesn't track well. At all.

Ctes is in this game? I thought he replaced out. Xd

Corrik7 posted...

You are in effect outing you are a "town power" supposedly to what gain? I don't understand the town mindset here. It doesn't track well. At all.

happy to discuss this post-game, i can't explain with information i'm comfortable revealing at this time

changmas posted...

happy to discuss this post-game, i can't explain with information i'm comfortable revealing at this time

I don't really think this is something that is going to be let go until POST game. Just fyi.

Corrik7 posted...

You are in effect outing you are a "town power" supposedly to what gain? I don't understand the town mindset here. It doesn't track well. At all.

It doesn't track as a scum mindset either, though?

chang can you elaborate on why you gave the impression you had a result from a scan on sbell?

were you just planning on bluffing without actually having a result either way?

i'm not sure i follow 100%

Okay ill play this game

##Vote:MI

sorry I don't like MI is beacuse he wasn't on the 3rd party wave length with Isquen and also rereading it. It seemed like MI knew Isquen wasn't scum

Like, let's be real here.

Scum do not like to stand out.

It is very antithetical to standard Scum play for them to draw attention to themselves.

Corrik7 posted...

You are in effect outing you are a "town power" supposedly to what gain? I don't understand the town mindset here. It doesn't track well. At all.

bad play as town yes but I don't think this makes him scum. Just an antsy Andy to his own detriment (and towns).

What gain is there from scum other than a 1 v 1

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Like, let's be real here.

Scum do not like to stand out.

It is very antithetical to standard Scum play for them to draw attention to themselves.

What's bizarre is you are explaining this to Corrik of all people

Of all people alive, I would put him 3rd most likely to find that obvious

Chaeix posted...

chang can you elaborate on why you gave the impression you had a result from a scan on sbell?

were you just planning on bluffing without actually having a result either way?

i'm not sure i follow 100%

i wanted to reveal i was roleblocked and therefore i got a free reaction bait on any active player of my choosing. sbell just happened to be someone active right as the day started who i wasn't confident on his alignment. in retrospect he's a pretty calm player so it wasn't a good choice for someone to reaction bait but c'est la vie

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It doesn't track as a scum mindset either, though?

Like I said in my post above. I'm all in on Ben and Scare still but "wtf is this". I don't understand it. It's not town mindset.

I can make it fit as scum mindset, but it's stupid that way also. It requires scum to have no roleblocker or chose not to use it. It's convoluted for sure.

I don't get it. I feel like Chang should claim. But, idk.

That said, Sbell didn't say he didn't go to red. He said he didn't get up at all. Which unless ninja, just because Chang lied doesn't mean sbell couldn't have been tracked some other way.

So on retrospect, sbell I feel is more likely town than scum. But, it's possible he is scum that didn't act. However, scum is more likely to have acted the most night 1 than any other night.

changmas posted...

i wanted to reveal i was roleblocked

But... why?

but revealing you were rolblocked just tells scum that they were right to pick you. so they'll do it again.

Obellisk posted...

but revealing you were rolblocked just tells scum that they were right to pick you. so they'll do it again.

+1

Actually. Sbell is probably just town. Unless Chang and sbell are scum together, sbell is town.

Corrik made a good point there. Sbell commiting to making no move instead of being vague does look townie.

Obellisk posted...

but revealing you were rolblocked just tells scum that they were right to pick you. so they'll do it again.

gee that would be pretty crazy wouldn't it. aw shucks, i never even considered that! thanks for enlightening me with this knowledge

With imperfect information, it is very possible Chang is telling the truth and this is a smart play.

it also tells scum that sbell does or doesn't have an action unless he's a limited-power role

it kind of gives up a lot of information

there is a seedling of an idea in my mind that scum might try to 'confirm' themselves by claiming/being roleblocked but i don't think i'm going to seriously entertain it quite yet

HanOfTheNekos posted...

With imperfect information, it is very possible Chang is telling the truth and this is a smart play.

I don't see how personally. Explain a hypothetical to support this?

Chaeix posted...

it also tells scum that sbell does or doesn't have an action unless he's a limited-power role

it kind of gives up a lot of information

there is a seedling of an idea in my mind that scum might try to 'confirm' themselves by claiming/being roleblocked but i don't think i'm going to seriously entertain it quite yet

This is not true.

He said SBell visited Red. If SBell is power and didn't, he says Chang is lying without confirming he has a role still

Corrik7 posted...

I don't see how personally. Explain a hypothetical to support this?

Chang's role is less important than eating a roleblock.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

This is not true.

He said SBell visited Red. If SBell is power and didn't, he says Chang is lying without confirming he has a role still

Hm, true.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

This is not true.

He said SBell visited Red. If SBell is power and didn't, he says Chang is lying without confirming he has a role still

Potentially not true. Sometimes people mention "no i went to so and so instead" to nip it in the bud right away.