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Current Events > Freedom of speech - Right vs Left? Who has the most grounded argument?

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Chrknu
12/30/22 9:08:32 PM
#1:


Let's start with the definiton from Encyclopedia Britannica:

freedom of speech, right, as stated in the 1st and 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, to express information, ideas, and opinions free of government restrictions based on content. A modern legal test of the legitimacy of proposed restrictions on freedom of speech was stated in the opinion by Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. in Schenk v. U.S. (1919): a restriction is legitimate only if the speech in question poses a clear and present dangeri.e., a risk or threat to safety or to other public interests that is serious and imminent. Many cases involving freedom of speech and of the press also have concerned defamation, obscenity, and prior restraint (see Pentagon Papers). See also censorship.

My view:
As someone from western Europe, who time and again proves to be clueless in American politics, I find it very amusing how in this twitter stuff a lot of people have went from "taking away my freedom of speech, booh!" to "that's good cencorship, yay!" in just a matter of months. And don't get me wrong, it's the other way too: "that's what you get from being on the wrong side of history, yay" to "why is my world view being censored, booh!"

I do feel the people who complains about censorship from a private companies and people is just ... wrong, though. Cancel culture is basically just market forces that some people don't like. That being said: Let's listen to George Carling for a minute. A bonus star for anyone who can show me a comedian who is close to his level (in my view - not interested in online rankings or whatever)

https://youtu.be/07w9K2XR3f0

EDIT: Something new with youtube, I think.

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LightHawKnight
12/30/22 9:11:28 PM
#2:


The right doesnt know what freedom of speech even means. Or censorship. They only believe anything against them is wrong and everything they do is right.

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the_pika
12/30/22 9:12:05 PM
#3:


LightHawKnight posted...
The right doesnt know what freedom of speech even means. Or censorship. They only believe anything against them is wrong and everything they do is right.

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Chrknu
12/30/22 9:13:23 PM
#4:


https://youtu.be/cgps85scy1g

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lilORANG
12/30/22 9:14:33 PM
#5:


For being the right, they sure are wrong a lot, huh?

But yeah, like the guy above said. The only thing the right is actually for, is right-wing politics. They'll justify their position any number of ways and they don't care about consistency or reason. Just winning.

The left likes to win arguments on the merits, which would be great if the only other team on the field didn't cheat at every opportunity.

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bo_danvers
12/30/22 9:16:50 PM
#6:


Literally everything said in this thread applies to both sides.

Anyone who talks about how bad the other side is can't see the trees for the forest.
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Xatrion
12/30/22 9:17:02 PM
#7:


I love when idiot goppers bring up 'muh fredumb of spech', because then I can point to the very first word in the first amendment that invalidates any argument they thought they had.

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AloneIBreak
12/30/22 9:19:41 PM
#8:


If we don't believe in freedom of speech for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.

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DarthAragorn
12/30/22 9:20:27 PM
#9:


bo_danvers posted...
Literally everything said in this thread applies to both sides.

Anyone who talks about how bad the other side is can't see the trees for the forest.
Both sides!

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LightHawKnight
12/30/22 9:21:20 PM
#10:


bo_danvers posted...
Literally everything said in this thread applies to both sides.

Anyone who talks about how bad the other side is can't see the trees for the forest.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/7/AAQaaoAADNqn.jpg

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VampireCoyote
12/30/22 9:22:26 PM
#12:


everyone should shut up

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#13
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whitelytning
12/30/22 9:38:18 PM
#14:


bo_danvers posted...
Literally everything said in this thread applies to both sides.

Anyone who talks about how bad the other side is can't see the trees for the forest.

I dont know about this topic but I agree about the second point.

This whole issue as generally pretty dumb as it relates to twitter and people that view it simply based on their own political bias are missing the big picture.


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Chrknu
12/30/22 9:38:46 PM
#15:


AloneIBreak posted...
If we don't believe in freedom of speech for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.

I think this is a very good quote for this topic.

This internet era has pushed some limits that wasn't as... apparent? before, though. I feel like we are visiting extremes in a weird way.

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LightHawKnight
12/30/22 9:42:34 PM
#16:


whitelytning posted...
I dont know about this topic but I agree about the second point.

This whole issue as generally pretty dumb as it relates to twitter and people that view it simply based on their own political bias are missing the big picture.

Not going to say no one on the left has complained about freedom of speech, but it is far far far far less than the right who keeps screaming about it for non government controlled stuff. This both sides are equally bad bullshit is bullshit. One side is clearly far far worse.

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#17
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VampireCoyote
12/30/22 9:45:51 PM
#18:


the right also insists that they arent allowed to say things that they gleefully say all the time without consequences

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COVxy
12/30/22 9:46:09 PM
#19:


The current debate about "freedom of speech" basically boils down to people wanting to spread hate and health misinformation that literally gets people killed, and being upset that social media companies are removing their noxious bullshit.

There is no valid other side to the argument. The right-wingers are incorrect, and they are maliciously so.

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UnholyMudcrab
12/30/22 9:48:58 PM
#20:


The right is not entitled to the ability to freely spread hate wherever they choose online, because that is not what the First Amendment entails.

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Guns_of_Verdun
12/30/22 9:49:39 PM
#21:


LightHawKnight posted...
The right doesnt know what freedom of speech even means. Or censorship. They only believe anything against them is wrong and everything they do is right.


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DoesntMatter
12/30/22 9:53:41 PM
#22:


the right thinks "freedom of speech" means that they should be able to say anything they want to whoever they want, no matter how hateful or harmful or ignorant it is, and not have to face any consequences for it whatsoever from anyone, and that's simply not what it means.

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MarcyWarcy
12/30/22 9:54:47 PM
#23:


liberals are misguided on this subject and often support ideas for speech regulation that can very easily be turned against them the moment the worm turns and the reins are in the hands of the wrong peoole

conservatives pretend to be champions of keeping speech unrestrained but they largely are also in favor of tight speech regulations, just not on themselves. Their approach is more roundabout but also more violent more often than not

so not really either of the prominent schools of thought you hear right now personally.
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A_Good_Boy
12/30/22 9:58:55 PM
#24:


One side wants to say racial slurs to minorities and send death threats to LGBTQ people, the other side doesn't and thinks those are bad things.

Omg both sides are identical I can't tell them apart!

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Turtlemayor333
12/30/22 10:06:23 PM
#25:


Right wing free speech warriors

Trump: I want to shut down SNL because they made fun of me

Musk: I will ban your account if you post videos of me getting booed at the Chapelle show

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Chrknu
12/30/22 10:11:08 PM
#26:


MarcyWarcy posted...
liberals are misguided on this subject and often support ideas for speech regulation that can very easily be turned against them the moment the worm turns and the reins are in the hands of the wrong peoole

conservatives pretend to be champions of keeping speech unrestrained but they largely are also in favor of tight speech regulations, just not on themselves. Their approach is more roundabout but also more violent more often than not

so not really either of the prominent schools of thought you hear right now personally.


To steelman you on the liberal side: Are you talking about people thinking someone should be punished for using wrong words towards someone else (ie getting jailed for saying him instead of her to someone who has transitioned)

If yes, that is one of the topics I hoped would be discussed here.

There are certian words and terms we KNOW is offensively used and can be legally reprimanded. And I think most of us agree that there is good reason for it.
The expansion of that list is... historically speaking, probably justified.

So an edit of that list is intersting. And conservatives is probably on the wrong side of history here too.

What I do think will be discussed in the future, is what is being called a necessary operation and what should be paid for by society.

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LightHawKnight
12/31/22 11:11:19 AM
#27:


Chrknu posted...
To steelman you on the liberal side: Are you talking about people thinking someone should be punished for using wrong words towards someone else (ie getting jailed for saying him instead of her to someone who has transitioned)

If yes, that is one of the topics I hoped would be discussed here.

There are certian words and terms we KNOW is offensively used and can be legally reprimanded. And I think most of us agree that there is good reason for it.
The expansion of that list is... historically speaking, probably justified.

So an edit of that list is intersting. And conservatives is probably on the wrong side of history here too.

What I do think will be discussed in the future, is what is being called a necessary operation and what should be paid for by society.

To go on with that, I always hate the fact that nothing good can be done cause if the republicans take back power, they will screw us with it. Why dont we just never let them take back power? Voting works, why else do republicans do everything in their power to prevent people from voting?

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PBusted
12/31/22 11:23:02 AM
#28:


Freedom of speech is by definition a liberal stance and restricting speech is by definition being conservative with speech. When it comes to actual government restriction bills it's predominantly made by Republicans. Right wingers aren't about freedom of speech. They're just about themselves and it just so happens that their ideals are now far less in vogue than it used to be. If anything they're upset they can't censor all the non-traditional things they dislike now when so much of it has become acceptable.

MarcyWarcy posted...
liberals are misguided on this subject and often support ideas for speech regulation that can very easily be turned against them the moment the worm turns and the reins are in the hands of the wrong peoole

I think those are less liberals and more the more tankie side of leftists.
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FL81
12/31/22 11:24:20 AM
#29:


I am 100% for free speech.

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PesticideDream
12/31/22 11:51:31 AM
#30:


Freedom of speech sometimes does open people to think they have freedom to hate speech and slurs, but I think left-leaning people, especially young people, forget that freedom of speech also led to such preposterous ideas like gay marriage, civil rights, women's rights, etc.
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epik_fail1
12/31/22 12:02:29 PM
#31:


DoesntMatter posted...
the right thinks "freedom of speech" means that they should be able to say anything they want to whoever they want, no matter how hateful or harmful or ignorant it is, and not have to face any consequences for it whatsoever from anyone, and that's simply not what it means.

How many times have I seen a rightist victimmising himself on facebook after being called out for homophobia?

Rightist : *says homophobic crap*
Other people : it's homophobic wtf?
Rightist : Wow you disagreed with me, therefore you "censored me" freedom of speech is when I am the only one talking with nobody to talk back!

(And most of the time people are not even trying to "cancel" the person)

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