Board 8 > Alcohol Mafia Topic 4: I don't think I tol;d you guys yet but im' crunk

(+) Yeah! (+)

Topic title in reference to the only thing I remember posting here while drunk. (I don't remember posting it so much as seeing it the next morning, LOL)

Alive and Inebriated

1. Ben
2. Corrik
3. Kirby (replaced Ctes)
4. Lopen
5. Lea
6. Plum
7. Sheep (replaced Abacus)

Passed out drunk
D1: Mzero Town Desperato
D1: Marth Town Doctor
N1: Sbell Town Tracker
D2.han town Mason
N2: Red Town Mason
D3: Isquen Scum Prostitute
N3: JC Town Bodyguard

Day ends at 9 pm Eastern

Didn't need a mislynch.

10/4 mzero kills town not named Marth, scum kills

7/4 scum executioner, Marth hides behind scum, scum kill

4/4

No mislynches. Game over. No lynches actually even happen at all.

Corrik7 posted...

Didn't need a mislynch.

10/4 mzero kills town not named Marth, scum kills

7/4 scum executioner, Marth hides behind scum, scum kill

4/4

No mislynches. Game over. No lynches actually even happen at all.

This is why I argued 3 scum and was my only real problem with the setup other than the fact that the vigs ended day.

4 scum with scum dayvig and a doctor that doesn't kill itself this setup is probably ok to be honest. Town had a LOT of power to account for the executioner. It's just that the disruptive power of an executioner that ends the day in terms of giving us useful information is actually priceless and can never be balanced.

Corrik7 posted...

Didn't need a mislynch.

10/4 mzero kills town not named Marth, scum kills

7/4 scum executioner, Marth hides behind scum, scum kill

4/4

No mislynches. Game over. No lynches actually even happen at all.

This is why I disregarded 4 scum entirely which given town power meant 3+1

Which is why I was confidant in you even though I was pretty confident you weren't on the scum team

Tbh you could have confirmed so many town with Cop and weak doctor.

Mzero shots Lea or Lopen like he was considering it's a completely different game.

Despite the early end of day 1, town still had opportunities to win this town screwed town multiple times

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Tbh you could have confirmed so many town with Cop and weak doctor.

Mzero shots Lea or Lopen like he was considering it's a completely different game.

Despite the early end of day 1, town still had opportunities to win this town screwed town multiple times

I think you are conflating balance with swinginess.

Yes the game wasn't too unbalanced, but the game was completely insanely swingy.

Mafia games that can end without a Lynch are not mafia games

Yeah it was absolutely winnable with town

There are just two fundamental issues with the setup.

1. Abilities ending day without a lynch are pretty much bad. Mayor works because you still have lynch data. A day executioner that was usable only after the lynch was locked in, like a mayor with a kill... possibly usable. But having that actual lynch take place is important to give solving material.
2. With bad luck the game can end on day 3 with no lynches taking place. A setup that can do this, even if that's unlikely, is not well designed.

I think the balance was mostly fine. It's just those two issues are a very big deal.

Make scum executioner work like mayor timing, make desperado not end day, and make the weak doctor a standard doctor or some form of weak protection that can't kill itself like a bulletproof or jack and I think the setup is good, perhaps even weighted towards town.

Lopen posted...

Yeah it was absolutely winnable with town

There are just two fundamental issues with the setup.

1. Abilities ending day without a lynch are pretty much bad. Mayor works because you still have lynch data. A day executioner that was usable only after the lynch was locked in, like a mayor with a kill... possibly usable. But having that actual lynch take place is important to give solving material.
2. With bad luck the game can end on day 3 with no lynches taking place. A setup that can do this, even if that's unlikely, is not well designed.
I think the balance was mostly fine. It's just those two issues are a very big deal.

Make scum executioner work like mayor timing, make desperado not end day, and make the weak doctor a standard doctor or some form of weak protection that can't kill itself like a bulletproof or jack and I think the setup is good, perhaps even weighted towards town.

I could agree to this, executioner could jus tbe scum Mayer or lawer and be like nah kill so and so instead

Thank you everyone. I'm mostly alright now. Had an infected rift in my throat that was placed in a very unlucky way so that it blocked breathing. Not the most fun New Years ever. It's mostly healed and I just have to eat carefully for a few more days.

I asked Sultan if he had anyone to replace when I called the doctor and was told to go the hospital. Gave him permission to state the reason so that it would not be meta'd as I would have replaced out completely irregardless of game state.

Well, I had fun in the little time I was able to be in this game! Scum were always winning from that position, I might have gotten one of Lopen and Lea but no way I lynch both before Kirby. They played well, but that win was definitely down to the swingy setup.

Also, fun tidbit, I think that's the first time I've ever been endgamed in ~100 games of Mafia.

Sheep007 posted...

Also, fun tidbit, I think that's the first time I've ever been endgamed in ~100 games of Mafia.

Wish I could say the same LMAO

I think alot of the comedy aspects of this game were taken away from said mistakes. Thats sad. I know lopen got a kick outta it though so I'll chalk that up as a semi win

That was objectively hilarious, except maybe for han.

Day ending because of it sucked all the remaining momentum out of the game.

Gg, scums.

After the first two days ended without a lynch i knew people would be big mad

the highlight for me as i skimmed through was plum arguing sultan didnt enjoy lite beers enough to make them town power or something like that lmao

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I think alot of the comedy aspects of this game were taken away from said mistakes. Thats sad. I know lopen got a kick outta it though so I'll chalk that up as a semi win

objectively it was pretty funny to an uninformed spectator with no vested interest in either side winning

Who kills sbell night 1?

Yes I had fun

The flavor text was very amusing for me

Shooting Han with vig shot RIGHT when he said "there are no more vigs in the game" was a hoot

And I do think I had a good scum game as far as avoiding suspicion and didn't crutch too hard on bussing to do it.

I'm definitely not complaining just explaining why things weren't great from a design perspective. As town may have been less amused not sure.

I mean, as a spectator, Han getting shot after that post was just comedic gold lmao

Lea with the Spider-Man meme after Plum and Isquen countered each other also got me good

We actually weren't going to shoot Han unless we could get a stop RIGHT there. I was furiously pming Sultan and BCT

Ben was this far away from ruining it himself due to not checking scum chat but yeah

Like the funny thing is we thought the humor was tactically unsound but did it anyway because we couldn't not

But in the end it probably was sound as we were able to flip Han as mason and completely suck the life out of town momentum (and make town think that wasn't a scum shot and/or 3 scum team)

changmas posted...

After the first two days ended without a lynch i knew people would be big mad

the highlight for me as i skimmed through was plum arguing sultan didnt enjoy lite beers enough to make them town power or something like that lmao

Yeah I made up bullshit to try to justify why I random claimed vanilla

I knew it was a dumb argument the whole time haha

I'm no balance expert but very basic sanity check balance for any aspiring hosts is that game should never end in less than two mislynches. Three or four for bigger games. Exceptionally bad luck with anti-town roles can put it to 1 if it's power packed (so like, I feel like our setup with 3 scum and scum cop scanner/prostitute is possibly ok but it's probably better balance to just not allow the doc to kill itself and make desperado normal day vig) but generally 2 should be worst case scenario imo, even at worst case.

I just want to be a protection role where people arent dying every day phase.

doc and then bg in games with 2+ day kills lol

Day Doctor could be an incredibly niche but spicy role

Or maybe just a Doctor whose protection lasts until the next night phase

Kirby321 posted...

Day Doctor could be an incredibly niche but spicy role

Or maybe just a Doctor whose protection lasts until the next night phase

Or just dont do day kills

I complained about day kills before there were two of them. Day kills by and large detract from actual mafia playing.

Yeah we needa good game with no day kills after 2 that have had 2 each

I had day kill ptsd coming into this game and now its ptsd about my ptsd

*steps on Han's dead body*

*ahem*

"To be, or not to be. That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind..."

I watched that movie recently. Really good!

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I woulda put Alice In Borderlands to shame with my monologues.

Here is a funner question. Who do you think would have been specialed day 1?

Thanks for having me

GGs all

I think this game should also show why self voting should go away

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I think this game should also show why self voting should go away

I disagree. I think it was the best usage of it yet.

Corrik7 posted...

I disagree. I think it was the best usage of it yet.

I mean of course you do.
I mean Lopens was a good tactic yours was selfishness

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I mean of course you do.
I mean Lopens was a good tactic yours was selfishness

Game had a banned role. How was I being selfish by helping to facilitate it's end. I was being considerate of the community.

Town could have won. No doubt in my mind. Especially since Sheep and Kirby weren't burnt out.

Corrik7 posted...

Game had a banned role. How was I being selfish by helping to facilitate it's end. I was being considerate of the community.

Town could have still literally won the game... excuses for being selfish beacuse you threw a tantrum.

Its fine Corrik you think it was a banned role but where is it stated? You wanna cry and tantrum beacuse I used a different role so be it..

Corrik was doing a thing he felt safe doing because he thought it was only 2 scum left with a 3 scum team.

In a way we still earned the victory because I'm the one who put that idea out there to begin with. So to me it's not really a bad end.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Town could have still literally won the game... excuses for being selfish beacuse you threw a tantrum.

Its fine Corrik you think it was a banned role but where is it stated? You wanna cry and tantrum beacuse I used a different role so be it..

Dawg, before you talk shit. I'd have my stuff sorted. If you wanna go this route, I can tear ya one. Your choice. Let me know which way you wanna go.

Scum Executioner is literally a BANNED role. Chris did not check your setup and tell you that role was okay to use.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yeah lol. I would, when intending to use a day shot, likely absolutely start holding the day hostage.

Also this looked like a fun game to play.

Self-voting can be strategic. Look at Yu-Gi-Oh Mafia where we denied town some of the currency earned from being on the lynch train by having our guilty-scanned scum peeps vote themselves.

Now, in the vast majority of cases, self-voting is misused out of petulance and unwillingness to play to win. I'm only in support of banning self votes because it's clearly more likely to be misused than to be used tactically.

And while we're at it, requiring unvotes before changing votes feels antiquated and unnecessary.

Let me impart a little knowledge on you Sultan.

Gladiator is a role that scum was only given permission to use after the stipulation was decided it HAS to give an option to lynch scum and not just town versus town, because scum cannot take control of the lynch to ensure a mislynch.

If you ever see a gladiator used, you can know 100% without a doubt the gladiator is town confirmed if BOTH options were town. Scum isn't allowed to choose to two options. Thus, gladiator is a cool role in that it confirms alignment for the player if the choices were ass, and if they are accurate, you should be wary of the gladiator.

Scum lynch movers can only exist if it can only move the lynch to scum itself. A lot of scum with these roles use them to "confirm" themselves as town with their "great play" slaying scum.

Scum executioner allowed to be use on town is a banned role. There is no ifs ands or buts regarding it. Anyone can tell you this. It's why I said I no longer cared anymore in game because it was clear the game wasn't gonna be counted by anyone regardless of balance.

If you wanted to have a role like this, you had yo just put a disclaimer up saying the game would be experimental and normal board 8 rules would not apply to your game.

No one is taking serious a game under a normal guise with a jester, a death miller, a scum role that punishes town for being right, or a scum role that can take control of the lynch to ensure a town lynch,

It's why we kept yelling at lopen the game he kept saying a death miller existed. It can't. It's banned. This role here is banned too. You can cry and pout all you want, but it is what it is.

The role I got is worse than Death Miller or Scum Executioner so lol

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Their is no need to even argue with you corrik. Town could have still won this game and yourself voting made that not possible.

"BANNED ROLE" or not Town was still able to to win the game so f off.

I don't care if town could win a game with 2 jesters, 3 death miller's, 2 scum executioners, and a scum bomb. The roles are banned and the game is no longer valid.

Your game could be lost without even a single lynch happening. Don't talk shit towards me, bud. I was keeping it cordial with you and trying to go easy with ya because you just didn't know better.

Fine. I'll just never host again and may even take a break from playing beacuse I don't need this

Lopen posted...

The role I got is worse than Death Miller or Scum Executioner so lol

Lol your role was super fucked up and not fair, but technically not a banned one lol. Who made that game again