Current Events > Why is there no ethical consumption under capitalism?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Because of commodity fetishism or something else?

Under a capitalist system, providers of sales and goods resort to unethical means(low wages, no benefits, no PTO, unregulatory practices, etc) of production in one way or many to make sure business is successfully sustainable.

The short answer:
superfluous consumer goods are superfluous

Because all that matters is profit and unlimited growth

Because fuck you

to make profit requires exploitation

that is why no corporation that seem ethical stays that way because then they make no profit

also even supposed ethical looking profit is still keeping most of the value a worker produced away from them and is exploiting them

OP is me

I just want to put megacorps put of business, but am grateful for the services they provide

think of it this way tc

you cook 100 burgers in 2 hours

each burger sells for $5

you produced $500 worth of revenue

your boss told you to get busy, that is all they did
they produced $0 worth of revenue

but you get paid only $14 for those 2 hours despite having made $500 of value

guess how much the boss gets?

WingsOfGood posted...

to make profit requires exploitation

The beauty of liberty and free markets is that the exploitation is mutual.

I value the money you're paying me more than I value my labor. You value my labor more than you value the money you're paying me.
If neither of those were true, the transaction of exchanging labor for money would not happen.

BOOT STRAPS

hehe

Questionmarktarius posted...

The beauty of liberty and free markets is that the exploitation is mutual.

I value the money you're paying me more than I value my labor. You value my labor more than you value the money you're paying me.
If neither of those were true, the transaction of exchanging labor for money would not happen.

there is no such thing as mutual exploitation what the actual fuck my dude

you don't work because you exploit your employer, you work because otherwise you will die

WingsOfGood posted...

to make profit requires exploitation

that is why no corporation that seem ethical stays that way because then they make no profit

also even supposed ethical looking profit is still keeping most of the value a worker produced away from them and is exploiting them

it's worth noting that this is just as applicable at an international scale; perhaps even more so.

capitalism requires an exploited underclass to do the work; the wealthy capitalist nations have all outsourced this underclass to some extent.

WingsOfGood posted...

think of it this way tc

you cook 100 burgers in 2 hours

each burger sells for $5

you produced $500 worth of revenue

your boss told you to get busy, that is all they did
they produced $0 worth of revenue

but you get paid only $14 for those 2 hours despite having made $500 of value

guess how much the boss gets?

I didn't make the bread, meat, etc

That's basic ownership of production. There is no ethical consumption because you don't own the money you make or the good or services you sell, so the flow of capital can't have ethical status since labour is alienated. If you controlled what gets sold, and make the full money off what you sell, your choices would have an ethical status.

averagejoel posted...

capitalism requires an exploited underclass to do the work; the wealthy capitalist nations have all outsourced this underclass to some extent.

very true. sweatshops, literal slave labor, child labor
all thanks to corporations in capitalists countries seeking more profit

but the average capitalist country enjoyer doesn't see these things going on

WingsOfGood posted...

but you get paid only $14 for those 2 hours despite having made $500 of value

If the boss wasn't there, those burgers and your $14 wouldn't exist.

I couldn't tell you the intricacies, but I can tell you when you reach for a banana at a grocery store, you'd look at it a lot differently if you remembered like 10 people died to get that banana to you.

And that's not counting the rest of the bunch.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

I didn't make the bread, meat, etc

That's basic ownership of production. There is no ethical consumption because you don't own the money you make or the good or services you sell, so the flow of capital can't have ethical status since labour is alienated. If you controlled what gets sold, and make the full money off what you sell, your choices would have an ethical status.

how much you think bread costs?

but I will humor it

for each burger bread cost is 50 cents and meat is 1.50

so each burger makes revenue of $5 - 2 = $3

So again, you made $300 worth of revenue

you are paid $14

still extremely exploited and your point is shown to be bullshit

WingsOfGood posted...

So again, you made $300 worth of revenue

you are paid $14

So... make your own hamburger stand, and you can keep the profit for yourself.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It's the "I know Any Rand was bullshit but it's still real to me dammit" guy.

DrizztLink posted...

It's the "I know Any Rand was bullshit but it's still real to me dammit" guy.

Sowell, actually.

I think I am just gonna check out of society

Questionmarktarius posted...

So... make your own hamburger stand, and you can keep the profit for yourself.

now we have to acknowledge the system

McDonalds and such will actively sabotage your hamburger stand if it indeed is making a killing and taking the business from them

there is also issues with government collusion and backdoor deals when it comes to getting the product to cook which is a know thing monopolies do

the argument of just work for yourself falls apart when you realize how monopolies work

they also would even make the closest mcdonalds to you sell at massive losses and use stores in other states to make up for it or their capital overlords who donate them money, just to put you out of business

Questionmarktarius posted...

The beauty of liberty and free markets is that the exploitation is mutual.

I value the money you're paying me more than I value my labor. You value my labor more than you value the money you're paying me.
If neither of those were true, the transaction of exchanging labor for money would not happen.

Employees work so they can afford shelter and food. Hell, sometimes not both.

Employers work (well, sometimes...) because they really need that 14th Mercedes.

How is this mutual?

(Yes, I realize every employer isn't hyper rich and I'm obviously exaggerating to make a point)

WingsOfGood posted...

how much you think bread costs?

but I will humor it

for each burger bread cost is 50 cents and meat is 1.50

so each burger makes revenue of $5 - 2 = $3

So again, you made $300 worth of revenue

you are paid $14

still extremely exploited and your point is shown to be bullshit

Did you not read what I typed? My labour is alienated so I have just said the same thing you have said.

It's exploitative so we shouldn't patron it

It's absolutely nutty to me that people on the right will say that people on the left are brainwashed by woke corporations who don't actually care about them while simultaneously defending them against their own best interests.

Like, imagine being a worker arguing for a companies rights to exploit workers. I've seen insects with more self preservation instincts.

ArchNemo posted...

It's absolutely nutty to me that people on the right will say that people on the left are brainwashed by woke corporations who don't actually care about them while simultaneously defending them against their own best interests.

Like, imagine being a worker arguing for a companies rights to exploit workers. I've seen insects with more self preservation instincts.

It is because they see themselves as more well off than poor inner city minorities and use that to define themselves.
They are like "I am middle class!" while barely making $50k

but they know some poor minority has to work minimum wage and so that makes them think "capitalism sure is great for me! I am better than that guy!"

and ofc homeless people they walk by and shout GET A JOB!

then again they are boomers often so even though they might not make much they likely bought a house they overpaid for from a 30 year mortgage

You're so close

WingsOfGood posted...

think of it this way tc

you cook 100 burgers in 2 hours

each burger sells for $5

you produced $500 worth of revenue

your boss told you to get busy, that is all they did
they produced $0 worth of revenue

but you get paid only $14 for those 2 hours despite having made $500 of value

guess how much the boss gets?

Because "You didn't build that." (Barack Obama)

MedeaLysistrata posted...

You're so close

that is what she said

WingsOfGood posted...

that is what she said

About the zero waste journey or after the party?