Current Events > The most succesful governments in human history are capitalist

(+) Yeah! (+)

krazychao5 posted...

so is capitalism an improvement over the prior palace economies, or are we backsliding as a species?

Well, those were the first documented central socioeconomic organizations that exerted state power through the person of a king and an aristocracy.
But you perceive capitalism to be better - and it is! But my point is that many people living in those societies probably thought they were at the pinnacle of human development and socioeconomic organization and they were until they werent!

The inherent contradiction of the current order is that capitalism is in an adversarial relationship with democracy. And I know which one I want to win.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Well, those were the first documented central socioeconomic organizations that exerted state power through the person of a king and an aristocracy.
But you perceive capitalism to be better - and it is! But my point is that many people living in those societies probably thought they were at the pinnacle of human development and socioeconomic organization and they were until they werent!

The inherent contradiction of the current order is that capitalism is in an adversarial relationship with democracy. And I know which one I want to win.

focusing specifically on the bolded part: there are certainly things that are "better" now than they were in previous economic systems. there are also things that are "worse" now. I think on the whole it's largely subjective

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Well, those were the first documented central socioeconomic organizations that exerted state power through the person of a king and an aristocracy.
But you perceive capitalism to be better - and it is! But my point is that many people living in those societies probably thought they were at the pinnacle of human development and socioeconomic organization and they were until they werent!

The inherent contradiction of the current order is that capitalism is in an adversarial relationship with democracy. And I know which one I want to win.

sure, it is difficult to know for certain if something is at its peak or if things can get better. i think what is important is to look back and determine if progress was made, but not to mean that improvement cannot be further accomplished. just because capitalism is better than prior structures does not mean it is the best it can get. i sure as hell would like american government to update itself to current times. really tired of old people running the country, but that is likely another issue altogether.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


As usual shock tries to virtue signal without actually contributing anything.

ToteAll posted...

Bump for non-clown responses.

Coming from the May 2022 account with a handful of karma.

ToteAll posted...

As usual shock tries to virtue signal without actually contributing anything.

So since you've just admitted you're not a new user and are an alt, what was the name of your main?

Basically, better than feudalism/subsistence agriculture is a very low bar. That system maximized for stability and hierarchy. It got that and so that's what people valued. Another system came along that maximized for other things, while not leading to complete lawlessness.

Now we have a system that maximizes for short term profit and short term, highly unequal, but nonetheless real material abundance. But it keeps much of the hierarchy and anti-democratic character of the previous system. And just like feudalism before it, there's many many many many things it ignores or actively harms in pursuit of endless growth. Like whether there'll be a planet to grow on.

The goal is to keep the prosperity, but increase the democracy politically, economically, and socially. That's socialism baybee.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's probably because capitalist governments don't allow non-capitalist governments to develop before trying to wipe them out/destabilize them/colonize them.

Generalizing the US as "all capitalist countries" is fucked up. Regardless, what's the claim here. "The US intervenes even before they can work, 100% of the time" or "when they start working "too well" as some other put it, the US intervenes"?

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Once upon a time, the most successful governments in human history were palace economies.

And I'm not saying we've peakes but it's certainly better than the alternatives we've seen.

gunplagirl posted...

Not having the peasants revolt is a pretty good standard of measurement.

Who are the "peasants" in these countries to you?

TC, are you suggesting one can't just copy policies from other countries and expect them to work?

ElatedVenusaur posted...

capitalism is in an adversarial relationship with democracy

I agree with this, which is why these models in particular have the elements I mentioned in the OP that keep this in check.

averagejoel posted...

I think on the whole it's largely subjective

This is exactly what I'd expect a child who doesn't understand the subject to say.

gunplagirl posted...

Not having the peasants revolt is a pretty good standard of measurement.

I don't know if this is a sound counter argument. Peasants not revolting could be because they have a good enough quality of life that they're okay with their government, sure.

Or it could mean the government is keeping them weak, hungry, separated, and unarmed.

The only time a revolt/coup is successful is when the military allows it to be, tbh.

BTW this is not an argument for capitalism.

ZMythos posted...

Peasants not revolting could be because they have a good enough quality of life that they're okay with their government, sure.

Is this a bad thing?

Squall28 posted...

Nice bait

This, seems like it worked out pretty well

I'm very convinced now that TC was being genuine in his topic about getting modded for "objective criticism" and not because he's a shit stirrer

Define "successful".

Will they still be considered "successful" when their rampant over-exploitation of natural resources results in global catastrophy and systems collapse in a hundred years?

Gwynevere posted...

This, seems like it worked out pretty well

I'm very convinced now that TC was being genuine in his topic about getting modded for "objective criticism" and not because he's a shit stirrer

Imagine having such a narrow view of things that stating objective truths to have a discussion is "bait".

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Define "successful".

Will they still be considered "successful" when their rampant over-exploitation of natural resources results in global catastrophy and systems collapse in a hundred years?

Actually read the topic, or at least my posts, then get back to me.

ToteAll posted...

Imagine having such a narrow view of things that stating objective truths to have a discussion is "bait".

Actually read the topic, or at least my posts, then get back to me.

You first.

mybbqrules posted...

So since you've just admitted you're not a new user and are an alt, what was the name of your main?

Still waiting for an answer.

mybbqrules posted...

You first.

Still waiting for an answer.

Difference is this isn't your topic, I don't know who tf you are and don't really care to humor a stranger.

ToteAll posted...

Difference is this isn't your topic, I don't know who tf you are and don't really care to humor a stranger.

Cool, so you're deliberately hiding your past account's identity while making troll topics on a brand new alt.

So why should we entertain you in any way again?

*tags as chud alt*

*topic list*

mybbqrules posted...

Cool, so you're deliberately hiding your past account's identity while making troll topics on a brand new alt.

So why should we entertain you in any way again?

*tags as chud alt*

*topic list*

I don't know if it was his original, but his last account was Melzargard.

mybbqrules posted...

Cool, so you're deliberately hiding your past account's identity while making troll topics on a brand new alt.

So why should we entertain you in any way again?

*tags as chud alt*

*topic list*

Considering the only thing that's different between this one and the original is the spacing, no, I'm not hiding shit.

But wait ohno ur leaving i feel bad now oh no

All good countries are capitalist, yes. I don't think a serious person could refute that. Unless they're using some sort of wacky Republican definition of socialism where Sweden and Canada are somehow non-capitalist.

Background_Guy posted...

All good countries are capitalist, yes. I don't think a serious person could refute that. Unless they're using some sort of wacky Republican definition of socialism where Sweden and Canada are somehow non-capitalist.

I haven't read through the topic, but I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say by capitalist government, TC meant any government where people sell things for profit.

itachi15243 posted...

I haven't read through the topic, but I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say by capitalist government, TC meant any government where people sell things for profit.

Indeed.

ToteAll posted...

Difference is this isn't your topic, I don't know who tf you are and don't really care to humor a stranger.

Honestly if that's the case why did you even make this topic? Everyone responding is a stranger to you.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Honestly if that's the case why did you even make this topic? Everyone responding is a stranger to you.

Yeah but everyone else is discussing the topic, not demanding stupid, irrelevant details about me.

ToteAll posted...

Again, it's relative. Of course it is.

Name one that had low corruption. I'll wait.

I swear TC is the same guy arguing in exactly the same way in that BOTW topic.

The-Apostle posted...

Name one that had low corruption. I'll wait.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-index

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022

@The-Apostle done waiting?

ToteAll posted...

@The-Apostle done waiting?

Wow, I didn't think it as possible. How is Denmark's quality of life? This is a serious question, since I have Danish heritage and I use Danish created players in sports games all the time.

His last accounts had tot in them, he aint hiding shit Jesus

If you want to play forum cop at least have some background.