Current Events > Ooh boy, so Hogwart's Legacy really runs with the whole 'Goblins are Jews' thing

(+) Yeah! (+)

meestermj posted...

I wish this had gone the same way as Tolkien did when he created dwarves in the hobbit.

People pointed out how it had some anti Semitic tropes, so when LotR dropped he flipped all that on its head.

Because Tolkein was actually a savvy person who knew shit about the world outside him.

Muflaggin posted...

Lefties just be reaching and reaching after taking massive L's constantly.

"Lefties" are just fine. It's just a video game. Your girl J.K. is still a piece of shit and Republicans still need to shut the fuck up about literally everything.

That would have to be one hell of a coincidence, if it is one.

Reave314 posted...

The only people who think that wizards have to be an elite with special blood are treated as the scum of the Earth in the books, though.

In fact, most of the wizarding "elite" tend to suffer for their vanity and callousness.

Also, the most powerful wizards in existence are not "pure blood" suggesting that the more intermingled the whole thing becomes the more powerful magic exists.

Reave314 posted...

The only people who think that wizards have to be an elite with special blood are treated as the scum of the Earth in the books, though.

In fact, most of the wizarding "elite" tend to suffer for their vanity and callousness.

or deadness

Smashingpmkns posted...

I didn't watch the movie cuz it looked like shit but i read that it was implied that the villainous Grindlewald character would have stopped the holocaust lol just seems like Rowling should stop writing about Jewish things, or just stop writing all together.

"A friend of a friend of a friend said this is my opinion."

Are you trying to say the irredeemable VILLAIN that is written as an irredeemable VILLAIN somehow just....isnt? Or what?

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

"A friend of a friend of a friend said this is my opinion."

Are you trying to say the irredeemable VILLAIN that is written as an irredeemable VILLAIN somehow just....isnt? Or what?

Wut. I read a synopsis of the movie in a scathing review. Using the holocaust like that is incredibly dumb. "Yeah he would have prevented the literal holocaust but he would have done a worse holocaust" is some hacky shit.

It's actually a vuvuzela, therefore they're being racist against South Africans.

this isn't a good look but is clearly a coincidence and still isn't going to get the game canceled.

people continually trying to make this game go away are just giving it free advertising.

We really fucked up by fighting the Nazis in WW2 because we were just giving them free advertising.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Wut. I read a synopsis of the movie in a scathing review. Using the holocaust like that is incredibly dumb. "Yeah he would have prevented the literal holocaust but he would have done a worse holocaust" is some hacky shit.

Yeah, you would never hold any hacky opinions, such as ones Jon Stewart started and told people they were being ridiculous for taking it seriously.

Ragnarider posted...

We really fucked up by fighting the Nazis in WW2 because we were just giving them free advertising.

who would have thought alt right user chewy would be concern trolling eh?

Goblins used animal horns to make horns, just like the Jews! And... A massive number of other cultures.

Saying it "looks like a shofar" is quite a statement considering a shofar can be made from any horn from Bovidae. I cannot stress enough how many "different" horns were made from Bovids. The goblins made horns out of animal horn. Oooh wow oh no how anti-semitic.

COVxy posted...

Yeah, you would never hold any hacky opinions, such as ones Jon Stewart started and told people they were being ridiculous for taking it seriously.

Do you think 2022 or whatever year he said it Jon Stewart is the purveyor of quality? Lol come on dude. Also Jon Stewart didn't start the conversation about Rowling's anti-semitism. His video was a direct response to various Twitter threads, which were a result of years of people talking about it.

I think the fact that someone sees the word goblin and immediately thinks of Jews says more about the accusers than the accused here.

Guess the only exercise these Twitter people get is reaching and jumping to conclusions

WingsOfGood posted...

In warcraft goblins are like mechanics. Don't see how that relates to a stereotype.

WC goblins are honestly way, way closer to an antisemitic stereotype than Harry Potter's. They are completely obsessed with money, they do nothing if it doesn't get them a payday.

_Krave_ posted...

I think the fact that someone sees the word goblin and immediately thinks of Jews says more about the accusers than the accused here.

Honestly, this was always my thought too.

But I typically see things differently than others so I often dont even know anymore lmao

The "well, if YOU see them as [race] that means you're the real racist" is not a good take. You don't have to hate black people to be aware that Jynx and Mr. Popo are identical to the minstrel shows' blackface. You don't have to be antisemitic to see that the money-grubbing, big-nosed goblins are suspiciously similar to Nazi illustrations.

It doesn't mean you're racist, it means you're aware of racist bullshit and have basic pattern recognition.

the 'only racists see racism' thing is just gaslighting.

But this example is so far a reach that it's either purposely trying to find something or an example of closeted racism.

Yall just trying to find problems with the game aren't you? This is a reach. Next yall are gonna start saying anyone who buys or plays the game is a transphobic antisemite. Let people enjoy shit.

It's very amusing watching people chasing their tails, going round in circles with the same pathetic conspiracies and coincidences. What a fucking waste of time and energy. Lol.

Blade_Trinity posted...

It's very amusing watching people chasing their tails, going round in circles with the same pathetic conspiracies and coincidences. What a fucking waste of time and energy. Lol.

Yeah. Just remember when conservatives complain about Woke Culture as a general idea that there is always some small kernel of truth in there buried deep down. Not all of these moral crusades the terminally online engage in are actually beneficial to our society. Sometimes it's just a race to look enlightened even if the reasoning is fundamentally flawed.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Yall just trying to find problems with the game aren't you? This is a reach. Next yall are gonna start saying anyone who buys or plays the game is a transphobic antisemite. Let people enjoy shit.

Its looking abundantly obvious that a majority of people playing here relish the label

_Krave_ posted...

But this example is so far a reach that it's either purposely trying to find something or an example of closeted racism.

That I agree with. I do not think this example is an instance of antisemitism, it's just extremely reaching. I don't even think Rowling herself is an antisemite, she just used already existing goblin tropes which themselves might be antisemitic.

I just think it's nonsense that people who see goblins as recognize that they're similar to antisemitic caricatures are "the real racists."

pegusus123456 posted...

The "well, if YOU see them as [race] that means you're the real racist" is not a good take. You don't have to hate black people to be aware that Jynx and Mr. Popo are identical to the minstrel shows' blackface. You don't have to be antisemitic to see that the money-grubbing, big-nosed goblins are suspiciously similar to Nazi illustrations.

It doesn't mean you're racist, it means you're aware of racist bullshit and have basic pattern recognition.

Exactly, plus telling me Im the one whos anti-Semitic is certainly an interesting take.

meestermj posted...

Rowling was actually very involved in the early stages of development, according to an employee of the dev studio.
Google it and read what that employee had to say.
The words "controlling bitch" were used I believe.

Sounds legit.

StarReaper13 posted...

https://twitter.com/frostiefey/status/1623805258286727174?s=20
https://twitter.com/Abessinier/status/1623784616027996160?s=20
https://twitter.com/frostiefey/status/1623729094939508739?s=20

I found some more tweets that don't really help the game's case

Gorgonzola is Italian, not German.

hockeybub89 posted...

Not to mention Blizzard's problematic treatment of female employees

What does that have to do with orcs?

Ragnarider posted...

Boy looking back, Jon Stewart sure was off the mark on that one.

Lol.

Fluttershy posted...

the 'only racists see racism' thing is just gaslighting.

Who thinks they are going insane in that argument?

Revelation34 posted...

Sounds legit.

https://www.hogwartslegacy.com/en-us/faq

Q: What is J.K. Rowlings involvement with the game? Is this a new story from J.K. Rowling?
A: J.K. Rowling was not involved in the creation of the game, but as creator of the wizarding world and one of the worlds greatest storytellers, her extraordinary body of writing is the foundation of all projects in the Wizarding World. This is not a new story from J.K. Rowling, however we have collaborated closely with her team on all aspects of the game to ensure it remains in line with the magical experiences fans expect.

Even if she wasn't directly involved, her and her team were consulted extensively.

meestermj posted...

https://www.hogwartslegacy.com/en-us/faq

Even if she wasn't directly involved, her and her team were consulted extensively.

Why should I believe one random employee making a claim?

Revelation34 posted...

Why should I believe one random employee making a claim?

That's literally the FAQ from the game's official website.
"Why should I believe the people who made the game about who was involved with the game?"

Are you just deliberately dense?

woah 9.2 user score, might be game of the year? almost gtd nomination

meestermj posted...

That's literally the FAQ from the game's official website.
"Why should I believe the people who made the game about who was involved with the game?"

Are you just deliberately dense?

No you said "Rowling was actually very involved in the early stages of development, according to an employee of the dev studio.
Google it and read what that employee had to say.
The words "controlling bitch" were used I believe."

Revelation34 posted...

No you said "Rowling was actually very involved in the early stages of development, according to an employee of the dev studio.
Google it and read what that employee had to say.
The words "controlling bitch" were used I believe."

You quoted "why should I believe a random employee" after I responded with a link and quote stating how extensively she was consulted.
I'm done talking with you, as you're either deliberately being dense or your doing it to get a rise out of people.

https://twitter.com/EliErlick/status/1624481026163499009

meestermj posted...

You quoted "why should I believe a random employee" after I responded with a link and quote stating how extensively she was consulted.
I'm done talking with you, as you're either deliberately being dense or your doing it to get a rise out of people.

So you're saying what you said didn't happen since you only posted to the faq and not your original claim.

Reave314 posted...

https://twitter.com/EliErlick/status/1624481026163499009

The comments on that are so ridiculous lol.

A lot of people saying this proves JKR doesn't really care about domestic violence and women etc, as if she personally chose the voice actors for the game

HHH_is_the_game posted...

The comments on that are so ridiculous lol.

A lot of people saying this proves JKR doesn't really care about domestic violence and women etc, as if she personally chose the voice actors for the game

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1623611072195223553?s

She really needs to do some background on people she replies to, though. didnt she already get blasted for being all to some right wing scumbag who threw her a compliment?

_Krave_ posted...

But this example is so far a reach that it's either purposely trying to find something or an example of closeted racism.

I don't know enough about Judaism to make a call on it, but this specific case sounds unlikely.

The gorgonzola bit specifically, that was almost definitely chosen for the unusual name.

However, that doesn't mean prior accusations are unfounded. Noticing similarities between a character design and actual Nazi propaganda is not "being the real racist."

"Big stretch, that could be ANY horn and the same year thing is a big stretch too!" people say about a fantasy race that in most franchises is no more than two degrees of separation from 1940s racist caricatures of jewish people at best.

Gremlynn posted...

"Big stretch, that could be ANY horn and the same year thing is a big stretch too!" people say about a fantasy race that in most franchises is no more than two degrees of separation from 1940s racist caricatures of jewish people at best.

It is a stretch.

Gremlynn posted...

"Big stretch, that could be ANY horn and the same year thing is a big stretch too!" people say about a fantasy race that in most franchises is no more than two degrees of separation from 1940s racist caricatures of jewish people at best.

I don't disagree that goblins are pretty damn close to caricatures, but this is absolutely a reach.

Like I said two hundred posts ago, I very much doubt that Rowling would even be aware of a 1600s German race riot in the mid-90s, much less slip a single reference to it in her children's book. Realistically, she picked a random year and because the human race is garbage, something horribly antisemitic happens in virtually every year of history.

I'm by no means an expert in shofars, but the horn in the game bears only the vaguest resemblance to one picture I found.

That tweet about milk is just fucking nonsense. I don't speak German, but googling tells me that dichmilch is actually translated as sour milk and whole milk is called vollmilch. She's correct only in that the dude's name is fat milk.

And this is all undercut by the fact that this reference is so obscure that it could have been an ARG, so why even include it? What neo-Nazi is playing this game, reads this description, and goes, "Hohoho, delightfully devlish, Rowling, I know you're referencing that gingerbread baker who killed them jews four centuries ago."

Revelation34 posted...

Why should I believe one random employee making a claim?

pegusus123456 posted...

And this is all undercut by the fact that this reference is so obscure that it could have been an ARG, so why even include it? What neo-Nazi is playing this game, reads this description, and goes, "Hohoho, delightfully devlish, Rowling, I know you're referencing that gingerbread baker who killed them jews four centuries ago."

Every single time people handwave "Oh would someone really be a jerk? Obviously you're just wrong!" and refuse to believe it.

I guess that's what happens when you're so sheltered you've never met a hateful person

Even Jewish groups says that it is one hell of a stretch...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Every single time people handwave "Oh would someone really be a jerk? Obviously you're just wrong!" and refuse to believe it.

I guess that's what happens when you're so sheltered you've never met a hateful person

Tbf, everytime the internet blows something like, well, this specifically up what's really even accomplished in the end. A whole lot of people argue, everyone that wanted the game gets it anyway.

Probably a very negligible amount of people are actually dissuaded from buying it that were potential customers to begin with. And they're counterbalanced by the people who buy it out of spite. Or buy it.. to break it.

So to answer the question my guess is.. dopamine? Lots and lots of dopamine? And being seen on whatever side of an... "Issue"? Does the Jewish community even care about this particular thing? Like, at large? Did anyone even bother to check on that before getting all in a huff?

ragnarokius posted...

Tbf, everytime the internet blows something like, well, this specifically up what's really even accomplished in the end. A whole lot of people argue, everyone that wanted the game gets it anyway.

Probably a very negligible amount of people are actually dissuaded from buying it that were potential customers to begin with. And they're counterbalanced by the people who buy it out of spite. Or buy it.. to break it.

So to answer the question my guess is.. dopamine? Lots and lots of dopamine? And being seen on whatever side of an... "Issue"? Does the Jewish community even care about this particular thing? Like, at large? Did anyone even bother to check on that before getting all in a huff?

"You're not allowed to point out or oppose bigotry or hatred without first conducting clinical trials to determine a rough estimate of how upset a certain group is. Besides most people don't care" is utterly nutterly butterly

Wasn't long ago that most people didn't care about blatant racism, sexism and homophobia and that only ever changed due to push back.

Always challenge and always do better. Don't just accept

itachi15243 posted...

What

1612 was when hamburg senate allowed Jewish to officially live in hamburg as far as I can see. Then 1614 was a raid on a synagogue that destroyed a whole community as far as I can find

Does anyone have a clear and reliable source on this one?

That's Hamburg. The Fettmilch uprising was in Frankfurt.

Two different cities.

pegusus123456 posted...

, I very much doubt that Rowling would even be aware of a 1600s German race riot in the mid-90s, much less slip a single reference to it in her children's book. Realistically, she picked a random year and because the human race is garbage, something horribly antisemitic happens in virtually every year of history.

This is most likely the case. If you look at her work she definitely displays a general ignorance of other cultures. See obvious exhibit: Cho Chang. Heck, her naming schemes in general can be bad. In another example she named the Japanese magic school Mahoutokoro. This literally means 'magic place'. It would be like naming Hogwarts 'Wizard School'.

meestermj posted...

The dev company of the game is majority Mormon, so this doesn't surprise me. Lots of anti Semitic rhetoric in Mormonism.

Mormons do love to baptize Jews after they die. It's a creepy little thing they do, especially for Holocaust survivors.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/us/jews-take-issue-with-posthumous-mormon-baptisms-beliefs.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/21/mormons-holocaust-victims-baptism-lds-church

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mormons-still-baptizing-dead-jews-despite-agreements-to-end-practice

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead#Controversy