Board 8 > TheRock finally finishes Final Fantasy VII Remake (major spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

So this game and I have a complicated history, but I'm going to finally buckle down and beat this game. There's probably no game I was ever more hyped for, but then twice I've played it and stopped right around a similar position. This time will be different because I'm gonna give my thoughts chapter to chapter, and I'm already 4 chapters in:

Chapter 1 The Destruction of Mako Reactor 1

Differences between this and the original: Shinra's involvement in the Reactor explosion.

This was also the demo that was released a month and a half before the game release, and I could not have imagined a better way to hype up this game. Extending the Aerith opening was great. It's funny to watch all your AVALANCHE buddies running past the guards and leaving Cloud to deal with all of them. But what I appreciate is that because the game obviously is going to spend more time in Reactor than the original, we get some nice fleshed out moments for everyone. I will say I'm not a fan of Barret's voice actor. He's not terrible but he's not great. But little moments like Cloud responding to "So, you're what, twenty something?" with "First." and Barret responding back "What are you talking about? I meant your age, not your god damn rank!" It definitely sets up that Cloud is a bit more of a dork than he's trying not to be.

At this point I'm probably not going to comment much on the gameplay other than I very much like it. I definitely think they found a good formula for the action RPG they've been trying to do for years, and I definitely enjoyed it more than FFXV's. I'm also ashamed it took me this long to realize I could parry when in punisher mode.

I will say the first change I didn't care for was how the destruction of the reactor was more or less Shinra's doing. I know they hint at a Before Crisis event (don't know much about the game) that they're a cell of an organization that tried to kill the president, but really I just dislike it because it essentially drives an event that doesn't matter and that the player knows isn't true. There's actually a lot more emotional weight to chapter 4 if Jessie really did kill all those people, and that the eco-terrorism route they chose did lead to a loss of life (and possibly innocent life).

Shinra definitely has enough bastard things done, including dropping the sector 7 plate. I feel like adding "actually WE really blew up the reactor" doesn't add much emotional impact for me. Like chapter 4 is built on a complete lie and in this game, it's kinda important because it's essentially the AVALANCHE chapter and is the most time you'll spend with the 3.

Otherwise, though, awesome introduction. Everyone gets their moments to shine.

9.5/10

Chapter 2 The Fateful Encounters

Differences between this and the original: A somber jog to hop on a train becomes a frantic escape from the Shinra army, also Sephiroth shows up 10 hours earlier than normal and ghooooooooooooooooooosts.

Whereas chaper 1 felt like an expansion of a scenario from the original game, this is a complete overhaul of Cloud's return to base. I mean in the original, you literally don't have to fight a single soldier and in this one there's multiple combat scenarios.

The first part really works well, a nice way to see the consequences of AVALANCHE's attack. Like I said earlier, it would probably hit a little different if they were truly responsible for this destruction. But it's interesting how they both use somber moments in vastly different ways. The original gives us "Anxious Heart" as Cloud moves a few screens, but it's a pretty great moment because you get to meet Aerith for the first time and the music sets the idea of what the world of FFVII is like (since it carries into further scenes until you get back to 7th Heaven).

But then Sephiroth shows up.

Now, it's a mixed bag for me. I think the scene is handled very well, and we start to question Cloud's sanity very early into the game because the fires surrounding him could either be very real due to the Mako Reactor damage or complete fabrications. But... I don't think we needed Sephiroth this early into the game. He just speaks some cryptic nonsense and then disappears. I also don't like Sephiroth's voice actor at all. He just sounds too young.

We then segue into Aerith's interaction. I've actually done both versions of answering her, and it's interesting how one leads to her asking for a date and the other her complaining how Cloud is just trying to get rid of her. But the interaction is still very sweet and you can sense right away that Cloud's caught off-guard by her forwardness.

Then the ghosts.

To this day, I'm still not sure how I feel about these things. These weird harbingers of fate to try and force the characters to match the original, the game didn't need these things at all. But they're not a deal breaker. The moments they show up aren't exactly highlights of the game but at the same time I feel like they're not worth getting angry over. I can imagine how some people might think they're the worst thing ever and maybe by the end of the game I'll agree, but for what I've played, they're just kind of a thing that's there for a few moments.

Didn't care for Barret's interaction with the Shinra employees. The Shinra employees were just kind of painful to listen to, and I already established I'm not a fan of Barret's VA. A fun little moment with Jessie, and some great moments with Tifa once she's introduced. I will say I love how much Tifa gets fleshed out during this game. Like that moment where Cloud says to Tifa not to believe everything they see on TV, only for Cloud to admit it was exactly as bad as Shinra made it out to be and Tifa's weak "oh" about the truth. The fact that she clearly wants to take care of Cloud throughout this chapter and the next. I was never a big fan of FFVII Tifa, but the remake feels like a more realistic character (which honestly I would hope so considering the technological and writing improvements since 1997).

9/10

Chapter 3 Home Sweet Slum

Differences between this and the original: A completely original scenario that expands on life in the slums and Tifa's relationship with Cloud.

I want to get one thing out of the way: I don't like the look of the slums in this game. I feel like in the original, there was a real grimy, moldy feel to the slums. They felt like an undergrowth, something cut off from the sunlight and shrouded in the dark. I always sold the oppression of the upper plate on the people below. Lights are constantly on with an eerie green glow. By contrast, we see the slums in bright lights and more of a desert town feel. Nothing inherently wrong with it, but I think the tone shifts from the original's "life in the slums is hell" to "we're broke and we have nothing but we'll band together and do the best we can." It's not to big of a deal, it just feels like a shift in how we view the slums.

The map itself feels pretty constricting. Your "dungeons" are pretty small (with one being essentially 3 battle areas) and get used multiple times for different sidequests. But I love the interactions between Tifa and Cloud, and even the moments with the Avalanche members. Tifa really wants to get Cloud established, and you can hear her disappointment when Cloud seems to be already talking about leaving. Even the little moment that leads to her dress decision, and the unease she feels when she can't get a straight answer out of Cloud about what happened when he left Nibelheim. Just mixing him a drink leads to some fun character moments. And I know it's from chapter 4, but having her admit the complicated feelings on AVALANCHE's actions is a lot more than we got from Tifa in the Midgar section of the original. And her fear of Cloud after he "knocks out" the Shinra soldiers. It was great for something to finally break the fascade of "it's really great to have Cloud back" because this isn't the Cloud she remembers.

The sidequests are... nothing worth writing about. Mostly go here and kill this. I don't think it does much to expand on the sector 7 slums in terms of what life is like. They're mostly harmless and you need some combat scenarios. I didn't feel like I gained any sort of connection to the city or really felt their plight. They just seem to be people living relatively normal lives despite living in crappy homes. No "we're struggling for food and supplies" so much "hey there's annoying monsters, can you take care of them?"

8/10

Chapter 4 Mad Dash

Differences between this and the original: a completely pointless new scenario.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, but honestly with the info known ahead of time (i.e. there was nothing wrong with the blasting agent she had) this really needed to be a chapter that really expanded on the AVALANCHE characters to make their later deaths hit harder and... it didn't really work. Jessie gets some decent but frustrating character work because of how front and center the flirting is. The debate is whether she, a former actor, is simply playing Cloud and while I think it's possible, I also think she hints at stronger feelings for Cloud (she panics when Biggs and Wedge comment about her talking in her sleep, possibly revealing feelings on Cloud). I think her flirtiness is pretty genuine, but it also works in her favor to help get what she wants because Cloud has no idea how to handle women. The stuff with her father feels pretty on the nose but it's effective enough.

Wedge is fat, likes food, and cats. Biggs... is there.

On the gameplay front, it's crazy that they had 23 years to work on these biker sections and they're still not terribly fun. It's not horrible but considering the entire combat scenarios in this chapter are the bike run and a single arena fight, it was supposed to carry a lot of the gameplay here and it's just not good enough. Honestly this is my third time doing it so I just put in a mod to have abilities instantly recharge and not bother with it. I will say the first time I did it I did well enough so that Cloud got his kiss from Jessie.

Also Roche is there.

Anyway, we get to the end of the time on the upper plate and we have more AVALANCHE members and it's like all these things that I just don't care too much about. The parachuting moment is pretty cute, though it is funny when it's juxtaposed with chapter 2 when you see all the unease they had after the first bombing.

Then Cloud wakes up the next day and the ghosts have taken over the whole town. I guess everyone can see them because they all touched Cloud, but this our first instance of them getting the story back on it's original track. Although it's weird how Cloud needed to join up with the 2nd bombing mission, but Jessie being injured and not able to join them was a complete non-issue. I guess the arbiters of fate are about the important stuff only.

7/10

Probably will start chapter 5 tonight.

Tag

Tagging this. Always down for FF7R discussion.

One of the only games where I immediately started a Hard playthrough after I beat the first playthrough.

Tag.

Tag

I adored this game until the utterly nonsensical ending which really killed my interest in it stone dead. So I'll be curious to see what you think of that back chapter.

scarletspeed7 posted...

I adored this game until the utterly nonsensical ending which really killed my interest in it stone dead. So I'll be curious to see what you think of that back chapter.

That was how I felt too. I kind of laughed at the absurdity of it all, so it lessened the blow, but damn was it some bad stuff.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I really liked the ending. I also consider the original game to just be fine, it's not in my top 5 Final Fantasy games or anything though, so that might explain a lot of that.

Yeah I love FF7 and I thought the ending was great. But it might also depend on how they stick the landing in future games.

But trying to not talk about it too much since Rock hasn't actually beaten the game yet.

Whether the ending is good isn't really possible to know just yet imo

But I enjoyed it

I'm alright with the ending because of what it means for the future games. If people hated the ending specifically for the reason that they want everything in the future games to go exactly like they did in the originals, then you can go fuck off and just play the original game instead maybe?

If you hate it for the over the topness nonsense? Then fine. But it seriously pisses me off when people literally just want a 1-1 of the original FF7.

I absolutely am all on-board for different endings, but it wasn't over-the-top; it was nonsensical. The post-final boss cutscenes were very intriguing, but that fight and its lead-up? Not so much.

Zigzagoon posted...

If you hate it for the over the topness nonsense? Then fine. But it seriously pisses me off when people literally just want a 1-1 of the original FF7.

I mean, how can you be mad at people when they literally presented this game leading up to it as literally that?

I don't have much love for FF7 and I don't care, but I know people who bought a PS5 because they thought they were actually getting a remake of the game and were disappointed by it for going off the reservation with it all.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I mean, how can you be mad at people when they literally presented this game leading up to it as literally that?

I don't have much love for FF7 and I don't care, but I know people who bought a PS5 because they thought they were actually getting a remake of the game and were disappointed by it for going off the reservation with it all.

Yeah remake does NOT at all imply major changes to a games plot. What people expect: updated graphics, sound, controls, QOL changes. What is not expected but generally ok: major gameplay overhauls, added characters or plot elements that dont contradict the originals core story. What can get you accused of a bait-and-switch: drastic changes to characters or significant retcons.

Whoa, 7/10 for chapter 4?? That's like my favorite part, everything in that chapter is hilarious, and it's just surprise after surprise!

I especially love the Jesse's mom's house segment, especially how you don't know the plan, but Cloud does, and you hear Jesse's voice, in Cloud's short term memory, walking you through it as you do it, and each step is so unexpected. What happened to her dad is pretty good foreshadowing, I thought!

Zigzagoon posted...

But it seriously pisses me off when people literally just want a 1-1 of the original FF7.

maybe one day you will learn that other perspectives are as valid as your own...

I wouldn't have minded a 1-1 at all, because the game fucking ruled and huge parts of it were a 1-1, or an expanded 1-1 (like fine Chapter 1 and 2 are way longer than the original but they were good expansions).

But I also wouldn't be anywhere near as interested in parts 2 and 3 if they went down that road. I'm really curious as to what they'll do.

I wouldn't mind it not being a 1-1 remake of FF7 if they didn't call it Remake and if they made it better instead of much worse. I say that as someone who is not a big fan of the original.

This kinda feels like the debate over the MGS2 bait and switch

pjbasis posted...

maybe one day you will learn that other perspectives are as valid as your own...

XIII_Rocks posted...

But I also wouldn't be anywhere near as interested in parts 2 and 3 if they went down that road. I'm really curious as to what they'll do.

This is a big part of it, and why remasters or whatever of games have just never excited me that much.

Ghost Trick is in my top 3 games of all time... and it's getting an HD version!

And I'm really not that excited for it. Yeah, it's cool that it is getting it, but so what? I know the story back to front and all of the gameplay, etc as well.

I suppose it's just a different mindset that doesn't click for me. People can just replay games over and over and get excited about them each time, but nothing will ever come close to the first time experiencing something magical and I think FF7R parts 2 and 3 have the potential to do that because we don't know how things are going to go down now, and that's why it pisses me off is because some people clearly don't want that, or even to give it a shot. They don't even want to accept the potential for something new and magical and just instantly dismiss it because it's not a 1-1 remaster with better graphics.

Am I 100% satisfied with the plot ghosts and how the ending was handled? Hell no. But fuck I am so excited to see where things go next whereas if it was a 1-1 I would literally have zero excitement because... I would already know the story and how every single little thing plays out.

I think a HD Version of something and a 1-1 remake of FF7 with those graphics and battle system are a bit different, come on

Except you have those same people wanting the 1-1 incredibly upset that the battle system is different.

ok but that's separate groups of people, and the ones you're talking about can fuck off

I do want an actual 1-1 only graphics and sound facelift, but that's like an hd remaster. A modern remake should embrace modernity for gameplay at least. (I think it could have still been turned-based-ish, but that's not even an ff7R thing)

I mean, if you want the most fundamental reason why I don't think this was the right direction, is because I think the modern storytelling capabilities of square is dead. There is a very low percent chance anything they come up with, ff7remake or not, will be as "magical" as FF7-era games. So to me it's just get a very good, if unmagical, faithful remake, or really risk getting a fun, but very stupid action rpg series that has the esteem of FFXV and KH3.

Isnt Ever Crisis the unmagical but faithful remake?

Based on what we've seen Ever Crisis looks more like a FF7 gacha so probably not.

Jakyl25 posted...

Isnt Ever Crisis the unmagical but faithful remake?

I was pretty hyped when I saw that. Hopefully that can inspire a single-player game on a more powerful system.

Tag!

Chapter 5 Dogged Pursuit

Differences between this and the original: the train escape becomes a fight for survival.

So moving forward these will be put out after I finish a chapter, since I had previously finished 4 chapters before deciding to record my thoughts.

I didn't realize how short this chapter was until I looked up from when I started and it barely clocked in over an hour. It's a nice sugar rush, with a very brief opening interaction between Cloud/Tifa and Cloud/Barret before things pop-off. I love how much they lean into Tifa's reluctance about this entire thing, and Cloud being professional to keep everyone on schedule. It's interesting how in the original, the plan always was to jump from the train once they got so far in due to their fake IDs no longer being any good, but instead in this one they're caught off guard and instead of running from train car to train car, you're now battling Shinra robots. It provides a nice moment for Tifa to get others to safety and, I guess, decent payoff to the annoying Shinra employee. But in the original, the better you did moving car-to-car, the closer you were to the reactor. It's something I wish this game had more off, but because it's so linear and graphically so demanding that allowing the players to essentially skip this level wasn't an option.

I know they needed it for the sake of giving you something to fight other than Shinra soldiers and bots, but the grashtrikes are a bit much. The idea that this train system could have bugs the size of humans just hanging out and laying eggs everywhere, I dunno. Then again just putting out more rats would probably have been stale.

I am also super thankful to finally have a full party, and use that to create a balanced attack where I could move from character to character depending on what I need. Especially using Barret to down flying robots. But it's also great for balancing out your elemental attacks since you get a mix of enemies that are damaged by fire, lightning, or ice during this segment. Bummer it takes 5 chapters in to get this, and we only get it for two more chapters before we're back to 2 or less for a while. It's more or less a product of expanding Midgar to a 40 hour game. That opening section of the original never lets you choose your party and it shows in this game. It's mostly fine but I assume we probably don't get access to all 4 party members until very, very late.

The Heidegger stuff is... fine. I love John DiMaggio so he does the best with the material given but "important figure in evil company is upset with subordinates" trope is as tired as can be and nothing they do here is super interesting or, let's be honest, necessary. Like, I guess it's important for us, the player, to know that AVALANCHE is being watched but really they could just reveal that in chapter 7 and it would be just as effective.

I do appreciate having a combat heavy section, and how they're starting to get trickier to compensate for the 3 person party. Too bad it takes place in a rather bland setting (repetitive train tracks). Boss was fun although it's frustrating to know when to use your best attacks when they do these stupid cutscene phase changes. Basically wasted two limit breaks from Barret and Tifa because I couldn't remember where they were in this fight. But either way a nice little pick-me-up after the kinda weak Chapter 4.

8/10

Edit: I feel dumb for not remembering the grashtrike in the original so I guess they're just staying true to it. I can't help but feel it didn't quite translate right to the remake, though, and I would have been fine without them.

Also I always feel bad for killing those guards that are flamethrowering those nests.

Imaging having one of the shittiest jobs in your company and then some terrorists show up and murder your ass.

bro I remember thinking how much shinra must spend on maintenance for their train cars running over spiders the size of horses all the time

Sorry I haven't been playing lately, I'm towards the end of Fire Emblem Engage and that's been taking up much of my free time.

Plus... gotta be honest, chapter 6 kinda sucks.

The most redundant chapter out of them all for sure.

Chapter 6 Light the Way

Differences between this and the original: an exciting new scenario that zzzzzzzzz.

I mean, I really don't have a lot to say about this chapter. The entire scenario is kinda dumb (why would an electric company bother with artificial suns when they could just go the Mr. Burns route and force everyone in the city to use their electric power nonstop?), there's no new enemy types and the battles are pretty bland. The whole level is "turn off giant lights to re-route power" and it basically depends on how much you enjoy the banter between Cloud/Tifa/Barret because the cutscenes are basic as hell, too. It's really super underwhelming filler to get an entire original chapter in the game. And whereas 4 had some (somewhat underbaked) character development, I feel like we didn't tread any new ground with our three main characters.

There's not even a boss battle or anything to break up the monotony. You navigate a slightly confusing but not really challenging map in what's arguably the closest thing to dungeon puzzles so far in the map, and you do get a few things of materia for going off the beaten path but the game is super handhold-y about these things.

It's more or less why I kinda let this sit for a while. Just a very blah part of the game. Harmless but also fairly pointless.

4/10

Yeah, probably the worst chapter.

I appreciate that pacing-wise it's a good idea at this point in the game, to just do a big combat dungeon with the Cloud/Barret/Tifa trio. But the previous chapter already solves that IMO.

You could probably just remove this chapter entirely and not affect the overall quality of the game whatsoever.

It's kind of cool looking and memorable though, so ideally I'd just make this chapter 75% shorter.

Yeah I think I'd keep it but just like, make it an area you go through in the previous chapter instead of an entire chapter on its own. Maybe one light you have to turn on.

Chapter 7 A Trap is Sprung.

Differences between this and the original: An extended version of the Mako Reactor 1 becomes a public execution to fan the flames of war.

You know when FFVII:R is at it's best? When it has energy. When it has urgency. When it's about pushing forward as quickly as possible. These type of linear narrative driven games are usually at their best when the goal is presented early in the chapter and everything you're doing is to affect the end of it.

Chapter 7 rules. Honestly, of all the changes they made so far, this I'm 100% down with. Changing the Airbuster from this random mech you fight at the end of Mako Reactor 5, to this looming threat you're actively trying to sabotage the best you can because you're immediately aware how dangerous it is. Shinra doesn't just show up at the end to gloat, they're showing you throughout how they're allowing you to scurry around thinking you're making a difference. To fuel propaganda both against AVALANCHE and Wutai, and turn the slums against them. And that the Shinra president wouldn't be dumb enough to show up in person. I just very much appreciate the narrative focus of this section of the game. Watching how the trio react to the news, I think this is Barret's best chapter. Tifa's unease about this entire thing and Cloud doing barely anything to ease her feelings on the entire thing. And yet as they move forward you can see how each gains more confidence. Heck, look at something as simple as the level pushing moment. Tifa and Barret excitedly high-fiving, and even Cloud, while still refusing to completely let loose, offering a rather full-throated endorsement of Tifa's performance.

Gameplay is a lot of fun, too. Deciding how best to downgrade the Airbuster, the rooms being a bit samey is disappointing but there's something about climbing a tower up and up while taking on wave after wave of enemy is still fairly satisfying. But it's got a nice mix of close and ranged combat. On another notice, I'm using a mod that makes your party members a lot more active in terms of attacking, which probably makes the game easier but honestly just makes things a lot more manageable.

The Airbuster fight itself is great. Although it still is frustrating to do something like accidentally hit a Limit Break right during a boss phase change, it's a nice little test of knowing how to use each character to deal with this boss. It's one of the few fights where I'm actively switching between all three, when needing to range attack, when a character is stunned, to avoid major attacks, etc. The only fight so far where I had to worry about characters getting incapacitated. It's sad because we're about to go a looooooooong time before we hit 3 party members again, and I think of the possible trios, these three our my favorite.

Even though I'd like to deduct a point or half for the repeated room designs, there's just so much right with this chapter and of all the ones I completed in my initial run, this was my favorite.

10/10

tag

redrocket posted...

Yeah remake does NOT at all imply major changes to a games plot

Obviously it's reMAKE, not REmake...

But Ermine nailed it with the idea of first time experience. For a game to truly be replayed, you need to replay all the original emotions too, it's not just seeing the graphics and hearing the dialogue. The only way to do that for such a classic game is to change things and create surprise.

The best analogy is Star Wars 7. Everyone complained that it was a copy of 4, which it was, because the whole point was to copy the full experience of 4, including the surprise and mystery. So its only option was to do basically the same as 4 but with some tweaks. Of course there's a nostalgic element, but that's not nearly as strong as truly feeling something new.

pjbasis posted...

I mean, if you want the most fundamental reason why I don't think this was the right direction, is because I think the modern storytelling capabilities of square is dead.

This is basically where I'm at. Like Star Wars 7, it all rested upon the sequels, which ended up terrible, retroactively ruining 7. You can easily see where the KH writing comes in with the new stuff in this game, so it's easy to be worried.

However, you can also see extremely good writing in the added details and nuances to the classic characters and scenes. It's really only the brand new plot stuff that fell flat. They left the door wide open to keep people hyped for 3+ years, but it's probably gonna be a near copy again until some KH bullshit at the end. The formula just proved too effective.

BTW I did start chapter 8 but I'm gonna wait to post anything until I finish it.

I haven't continued this at all.

Not a great look to be a month into this and only 8 chapters in.

Yeah... sorry.

Ending before Wall Market? Shame.

What did you not like about the game?

TheRock1525 posted...

Not a great look to be a month into this and only 8 chapters in.

this is me even if I really like a game