Current Events > El Salvador cut it's homicide rate on half...

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 8:33:25 PM
#1:


By aggressively throwing criminals in jail. 2% of the population is behind bars.

Japan also has low crime rates due to severe punishments for criminals.

Just saying
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Irony
02/19/23 8:34:25 PM
#2:


Japan only has a low crime rate because they don't count crimes that are Yakuza related

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ssj3vegeta
02/19/23 8:34:45 PM
#3:


We can't throw da police in jail doe

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Doe
02/19/23 8:35:08 PM
#4:


"Here's an anecdote of one country with no source or comparative statistics to draw a conclusion from

Just saying"

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MC_BatCommander
02/19/23 8:35:49 PM
#5:


Yes I'm sure our already over capacity prisons and jails could accommodate a couple million more inmates no biggie

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Blue_Inigo
02/19/23 8:36:26 PM
#6:


America has more people locked up than literally every other country so idk what you want. Clearly locking people up doesn't solve much of anything when it comes to crime rates

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 8:36:32 PM
#7:


Doe posted...
"Here's an anecdote of one country with no source or comparative statistics to draw a conclusion from

Just saying"

https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2022/04/30/el-salvadors-president-has-locked-up-19000-people-in-a-month

https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2023/02/16/latin-americas-prisons-are-overcrowded-and-violent

There's your sources

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 8:37:07 PM
#8:


Blue_Inigo posted...
America has more people locked up than literally every other country so idk what you want. Clearly locking people up doesn't solve anything

By number not by percentage. And that's just a factor of our population.
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viewmaster_pi
02/19/23 8:38:02 PM
#9:


ah yes, but Dr. Salvador has doubled his homocide rate

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#10
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Irony
02/19/23 8:38:22 PM
#11:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Would get blocked by the SCOTUS

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#12
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Intro2Logic
02/19/23 8:42:13 PM
#13:


Dan_Haren- posted...
https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2022/04/30/el-salvadors-president-has-locked-up-19000-people-in-a-month

https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2023/02/16/latin-americas-prisons-are-overcrowded-and-violent

There's your sources
There's no mention in these articles of the murder rate being reduced, but there is mention of the significant problems caused by pursuing such a policy

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the_pika
02/19/23 8:43:11 PM
#14:


Dan_Haren- posted...
By aggressively throwing criminals in jail. 2% of the population is behind bars.

Japan also has low crime rates due to severe punishments for criminals.

Just saying

theyre locking up violent criminals, though, not random minorities and jaywalkers, big difference
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Ooooooranges
02/19/23 8:46:56 PM
#15:


What exactly is the point of this thread?

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 8:47:29 PM
#16:


Intro2Logic posted...
There's no mention in these articles of the murder rate being reduced, but there is mention of the significant problems caused by pursuing such a policy

Look at the second one.

In a region with high crime rates, citizens have long favoured their leaders treating suspected criminals with mano dura, or an iron fist. The most extreme example of this is in El Salvador. In March 2022 a state of emergency was declared by President Nayib Bukele, after a spike of gang-related killings. Some 100,000 people, or 2% of Salvadorean adults, are now behind bars. The countrys homicide rate has halved. Mr Bukeles approval rating is a whopping 90%, the highest in the region.
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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 8:49:07 PM
#17:


Breh everything I post is always backed by facts. I've never fudged numbers.
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divot1338
02/19/23 8:55:37 PM
#18:


ssj3vegeta posted...
We can't throw da police in jail doe
Its true though. Whether you agree wth what theyre doing or not, the group of Americans that kill more people than anyone else per capita is cops.

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A_Good_Boy
02/19/23 8:58:26 PM
#19:


On April 24th the Legislative Assembly, which the president controls, extended a state of emergency for a second month. Citizens are barred from gathering in groups outside. The police no longer need to give an explanation when arresting people. Since the emergency powers came into force they have rounded up more than 19,000.

Doesn't seem great

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 9:03:47 PM
#20:


These are extreme crime riddled areas. I would support that if I lived there.
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A_Good_Boy
02/19/23 9:10:19 PM
#21:


Dan_Haren- posted...
These are extreme crime riddled areas. I would support that if I lived there.

And per the article, overwhelming amount of people do support it
I can't read past that paragraph since the article is gated.

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 9:12:00 PM
#22:


A_Good_Boy posted...
I can't read past that paragraph since the article is gated.

From the second article I posted a quote where the presidents approval rating was 90 percent.
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A_Good_Boy
02/19/23 9:24:38 PM
#23:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%9323_Salvadoran_gang_crackdown

During an extraordinary session early on 27 March, the Salvadoran Legislative Assembly approved a "state of exception".[18] The order, which was initially set to last thirty days but has been extended twice,[19] suspended the rights of association and legal counsel, increased the amount of time that persons may be detained without being charged from three days to fifteen, and permitted the government to monitor citizens' communications without warrants.[18] However, Salvadoran law enforcement was accused of violating even the expanded limits of their powers.[11][17] The government also restricted the ability of judges to offer prisoners alternatives to pre-trial detention, like bail and house arrest.[20]

Members of Nuevas Ideas passed new rules that increase prison sentences for convicted gang lords to forty to forty-five years (previously six to nine) and twenty to thirty years for other members (previously three to five)[10] and reduce the age of criminal responsibility, previously sixteen years old,[20] to twelve.[19] They also passed a law that threatens anyone who reproduces or disseminates messages from gangs, including news media, with ten to fifteen years in prison.[21]

The government deployed additional police and military forces,[22] raiding houses and creating checkpoints surrounding neighborhoods with known gang presences.[8] Soldiers checked everyone for identification cards and proof of address,[17] searched their vehicles and backpacks,[11] and refused to let anyone enter or leave without what they considered a legitimate reason.[17] Anyone considered suspicious was forced to strip so soldiers could check for gang-related tattoos.[17]

Quite a few of those seem like the US.

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LordFarquad1312
02/19/23 9:25:41 PM
#24:


Dan_Haren- posted...
Japan also has low crime rates due to severe punishments for criminals.
There's literally an entire game series dedicated to shitting on Japan's broken ass justice system.

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runewalshPSiv
02/19/23 9:30:44 PM
#25:


MC_BatCommander posted...
Yes I'm sure our already over capacity prisons and jails could accommodate a couple million more inmates no biggie

Release everyone that's in prison right now for a nonviolent drug charge and we would have plenty of room for real criminals.

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Dan_Haren-
02/19/23 9:40:19 PM
#26:


I'm not saying throw everyone in prison and I agree nonviolent petty crime should not be punished harshly...especially possession of individual amounts of drugs should not be a crime.

But violent criminals should be punished harshly.
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FigureOfSpeech
02/19/23 9:42:46 PM
#27:


It cut it is homicide rate on half?
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ClockworkHare
02/19/23 9:43:08 PM
#28:


Dan_Haren- posted...
El Salvador cut it's homicide rate on half...
By aggressively throwing criminals in jail. 2% of the population is behind bars.

Japan also has low crime rates due to severe punishments for criminals.

Just saying

My question is: what's significantly different about the prisons in those locations compared to western prisons?

How do they help discourage repeated offenses?

Because western prisons don't.
The American prison system basically banks on and incentivizes reoffenders, hence the jokes about it being a "revolving door".

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darkprince45
02/19/23 9:44:48 PM
#29:


divot1338 posted...
Its true though. Whether you agree wth what theyre doing or not, the group of Americans that kill more people than anyone else per capita is cops.
And in the yearly 1,000 average police killings. An average about 950 are suspects committing a violent crime or armed with a weapon. This says more about our society being violent and dangerous to the public than cops committing mass killings

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Delirious_Beard
02/19/23 9:47:07 PM
#30:


typical dipshit maddendude topic

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Chicken
02/19/23 9:48:38 PM
#31:


viewmaster_pi posted...
ah yes, but Dr. Salvador has doubled his homocide rate


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the_pika
02/19/23 9:54:57 PM
#32:


the_pika posted...
theyre locking up violent criminals, though, not random minorities and jaywalkers, big difference

funny how this was ignored by TC
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FigureOfSpeech
02/19/23 9:57:03 PM
#33:


the_pika posted...
funny how this was ignored by TC

good point
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Gritty
02/19/23 10:11:50 PM
#34:


Dan_Haren- posted...
Breh everything I post is always backed by facts. I've never fudged numbers.
Fuzzy math
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Intro2Logic
02/19/23 10:13:13 PM
#35:


the_pika posted...
theyre locking up violent criminals, though,
Even the articles TC has cited do not assume that to be true

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the_pika
02/19/23 10:54:34 PM
#36:


Intro2Logic posted...
Even the articles TC has cited do not assume that to be true

so youre just gonna assume they began locking up minorities and jaywalkers ?
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Takuya_Lee
02/19/23 11:09:24 PM
#37:


LordFarquad1312 posted...
There's literally an entire game series dedicated to shitting on Japan's broken ass justice system.

Judgment?

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Atralis
02/19/23 11:10:04 PM
#38:


Dan_Haren- posted...
These are extreme crime riddled areas. I would support that if I lived there.

And per the article, overwhelming amount of people do support it

The US still has the rule of law and people don't tattoo "I'm a criminal please kill me" all over their bodies like they do/did in El Salvador. We have a functional court system where other countries send us cartel leaders to be convicted by US juries because we still have a functioning society.

That being said I can't fault El Salvador for doing what they are doing. If we reached that point I would support summarily executing every single person in a gang if jurors, cops, judges, were being killed.

I think most Americans would agree if we got to the point where Mexico is at with cartels battling the army on the streets and winning some of the time we would just kill every single fucking person in the entire country suspected of being in a gang. We would kill everyone will a gang tattoo. We would be invading Mexico to kill all of them there. If people in the US were being killed on juries by cartel leaders in latin America we would be dropping fucking hydrogen bombs on latin america. We would come through like the end of fucking days killing hundreds of thousands or even millions of people until we got back to the point where a jury of Americans could try a cartel leader and convict of their crimes as we have done in the past few years.

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the_pika
02/19/23 11:12:01 PM
#39:


People: Australia took back guns and shootings went away

republicans; its a different country! Different culture!! That would never work here!!


people: el Salvador threw a shitload of people into jail and crime went down

republicans: time to round up people, boys! Yeeehaaahhh!!!
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DrizztLink
02/19/23 11:28:01 PM
#40:


the_pika posted...
so youre just gonna assume they began locking up minorities and jaywalkers ?
Gee, I wonder if a government would ever use a massive imprisonment scheme to imprison people it doesn't like.

Nah, impossible.

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refmon
02/19/23 11:33:22 PM
#41:


ssj3vegeta posted...
We can't throw da police in jail doe


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Aztex
02/20/23 12:06:18 AM
#42:


They locked up anyone with a gang tattoo. The ones that ran and weren't locked up at the time started causing problems and that's when they decided to starve the ones in prison. A day or so the ran sacking the whole country looking for more of them anyone hiding any would also be arrested and rewards were being given to those who reported or turned them in. It was encouraged for parents/relatives to turn in family members and they would still be rewarded. They then provided citizens with jobs to clean up the country by painting over and cleaning out gang graffiti. They even went as far as paying citizens to destroy ang related tombstones.

My mother in law went last year she said it was the first time in years she was finally able to walk at night with no problems or fear of anything happening to her. Tourism has increased a lot as well. Business are doing better since majority had to pay a quota to gangs for being on "their turf"

Salvadorians have also just about stopped coming to the US illegally as well since they're doing much better now.


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ShineboxPhil
02/20/23 12:08:11 AM
#43:


Do gangs like MS-13 and 18 Street have a de facto leader?

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Atralis
02/20/23 12:09:06 AM
#44:


ShineboxPhil posted...
Do gangs like MS-13 and 18 Street have a de facto leader?

Why does it matter if they have a leader? Kill every single person in the gang. Kill them all. These guys paint kill me permanently on their faces. Kill every single fucking one of them. Kill them all.
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GiftedACIII
02/20/23 12:11:21 AM
#45:


LordFarquad1312 posted...
There's literally an entire game series dedicated to shitting on Japan's broken ass justice system.
Ace Attorney? That is a huge misconception. Takumi knew nothing about law when he made the trilogy. He made it a court setting because he originally had it as a detective game but wanted to make it more unique.
https://www.tumblr.com/cloverthirteen/657974263778852864/was-ace-attorney-made-as-a-satire-on-japans-legal

His Great Ace Attorney series also shitted on the English Jury system as irrational and corrupt.

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#46
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MarcyWarcy
02/20/23 12:16:29 AM
#47:


little danny wants to talk about big boy things
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nexigrams
02/20/23 12:22:56 AM
#48:


"Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither."

etc. and so on. Just assuming anyone the police even look at is DEFINITELY guilty like they do in Japan is not worth having a lower crime rate.

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doomcrusader
02/20/23 12:22:59 AM
#49:


Aztex posted...
They locked up anyone with a gang tattoo. The ones that ran and weren't locked up at the time started causing problems and that's when they decided to starve the ones in prison. A day or so the ran sacking the whole country looking for more of them anyone hiding any would also be arrested and rewards were being given to those who reported or turned them in. It was encouraged for parents/relatives to turn in family members and they would still be rewarded. They then provided citizens with jobs to clean up the country by painting over and cleaning out gang graffiti. They even went as far as paying citizens to destroy ang related tombstones.

My mother in law went last year she said it was the first time in years she was finally able to walk at night with no problems or fear of anything happening to her. Tourism has increased a lot as well. Business are doing better since majority had to pay a quota to gangs for being on "their turf"

Salvadorians have also just about stopped coming to the US illegally as well since they're doing much better now.

Wow, glad to hear it. Hopefully other countries can have the same success.

People will shit on this, but desperate times require desperate measures.

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