Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Bowser/DK/Diddy & Dixie/Sonic vs. Cyberdemon/Zagreus/B. J./Samus

(+) Yeah! (+)

my initial gut reaction was "samus solos"

after reading more, (1) sonic getting max rings is a big deal and (2) I do buy mewtwo specifically seeking out humans to destroy. not sure that's enough to swing this, though.

SirChris posted...

32 foot 4x dk maybe just leaps over the chasm lol

Cyberdemon is just dead?

I didn't really think dk was that big

see this is the initial reaction I had when I read DK's ability and have since wondered why it was getting downplayed so much

You've got a 30ish feet tall gorilla, depending on posture, who is not only that big but also explicitly four times as fast and strong as his normal self. Like, even for a regular gorilla who wasn't DK that would be terrifying, and base DK already has some silly strength feats

Like for funsies let's look at a normal gorilla. Not DK, who already punches giant monsters so hard they get sent flying like Team Rocket. Just a normal gorilla. According to google:

How hard can a gorilla punch? It is believed that a gorilla punch is strong enough to shatter your skull with one slam of its arm:/Between 1300 to 2700 pounds of force. Gorillas on (avg. 400 lbs) have a muscle mass density almost 4 times higher than the most heavily muscled powerful human you know.

If 4x DK catches Samus he's opening up the Power Suit like it was a can of tuna.

Cyberdemon can apparently withstand being chainsawed 370 times im a row but dies instantly?

Its not like dudes a dodgetank hes a facetank.

I also think for DK you have to answer how he withstands just all this firepower that cannot possibly miss him.

400% a lot of things but not 400% durable that fire powers still gonna tear through his flesh, slow him and weaken him as he approaches and he is quite simply going to be dead.

Sonic. All he needs is DK being able to help him a little or Mewtwo causing enough chaos in the humans direction for him to get the win.

KamikazePotato posted...

Like for funsies let's look at a normal gorilla. Not DK, who already punches giant monsters so hard they get sent flying like Team Rocket. Just a normal gorilla. According to google:

If 4x DK catches Samus he's opening up the Power Suit like it was a can of tuna.

Wait

This dk is as strong as like Spiderman by math

The fuck

BJ fires at DK -> Sonic blasts through the castle to where the shot came from, smears BJ, and gets back to DK in like a couple seconds. BJ first shot needs to kill DK, and I dont think he can do that

Eddv posted...

Cyberdemon can apparently withstand being chainsawed 370 times im a row but dies instantly?

Its not like dudes a dodgetank hes a facetank.

I also think for DK you have to answer how he withstands just all this firepower that cannot possibly miss him.

400% a lot of things but not 400% durable that fire powers still gonna tear through his flesh, slow him and weaken him as he approaches and he is quite simply going to be dead.

Cyberdemon may be tanky but he's down for a second and getting mobbed instantly. Won't be able to regain his bearings. For the record basically any merc wouldn't be able to do anything in this scenario unless they were, like, Dante. You need a combination of tankiness/regeneration and high melee speed/reflexes.

As for DK being a big target - you're correct. I wouldn't take 4x DK against this team on his own. That's where Sonic comes in, who I also have a *lot* of respect for.

switching to abstain

I have been wildly underestimating dk

i don't think the cyberdemon does much and it's close but castle wolfenstein is still busted and the defensive position gives team samus a bunch of free damage on approach (i do think the onus is on the attackers to, in broad strokes, attack). samus' air mobility is really good here as well and power bomb is strong tech against dk's weaker teammates

Also I think Zagreus can take sonic. Hes fast and dodgy and is pretty good/offensively and defensively in melee with the aegis shield if it really comes down to it.

Any engagement happening there is happening with sonic at a serious disadvantage since hes having to deal with effects like festive fog that slow him and just a general barrage of firepower. He also has the call of aphrodite and sonic is all through his history shown to be pretty susceptible to charm.

BJ can be fairly effective because Laserkradtwerk doesnt use a traditional projectile and if it hits anywhere near him left off a big explosion of light that disorients and can bounce off things and still hit sonic in unexpected ways

zagreus is a damn good, its just too bad hes up against Sonic

Fair on Zagreus being better against Sonic than I was giving him credit for.

GANON1025 posted...

BJ fires at DK -> Sonic blasts through the castle to where the shot came from, smears BJ, and gets back to DK in like a couple seconds. BJ first shot needs to kill DK, and I dont think he can do that

You realize BJ is here in his upgraded form with his cyborg body. Hes not getting "smeared" with the speed youre suggesting snd hes not exactly defenseless. He just needs to get the laser anywhere near Sonic to fuck him up pretty good and any path in is taking him through festive fog which, at least one time, is gonna severely fuck with sonic.

My point, mainly, is this is 3 on 2 with all 3 having some serious firepower.

Samus with her ability to go invuln a short time with lightning armor and dodging AND her aerial offense is a huge huge problem for either of sonic or DK.

And again I dont see how DK is a absorbing the sort of offense that can do this:

https://youtu.be/ZdbK7ANStjc?t=83

I just wanna emphasize the Cyberdemon is MEGA tanky, not just 'kinda beefy'. I don't take anyone else here to take two BFG shots and keep trucking like nothing happened, not even Samus. He'll die alright, but it's gonna be a work of at least 30 seconds to a minute no matter how big your DK respect is, IMO.

(Temporarily switching to abstain just to see how further arguments play out. Leaning Team Wolfenstein still tho, I just want to confirm Samus has the stuff I thought she had)

I don't see DK surviving the journey across the ravine. Not with Zag, BJ, and Samus free to shoot him, and he is completely unmissable at that size. I'm assuming he's just jumping from cable tower to cable tower since the wires won't support him. But its still too far for him to make it before he's shot to death. MiniKongs aren't doing a whole lot here either. Bowser WONT cross the ravine because of BJ. CybieD is... probably gonna take out diddy and dixie? Probably? DK could just pick him up and huck him off the cliff but if he did that Cybie could free fire from below so that's not a great answer. If they stick around and try to pummel Cybie to death then that's even more time for the snipers to shoot at DK because I don't think he fits behind the cover that's available at the bottom of the Cable Car station.

Sonic is going to get across the ravine after his team finishes killing CybieD, I absolutely believe that. However I think he ends up alone. No one else can make it. And the second he gets in range Zagreus slams him with a massive slow and then the Aphrodite call. And while he's charmed, Samus, BJ, and Zag can just unload on him.

Team Zagreus is Too Damn Sexy

I didnt go super into detail with Samus Prime Hunters offense but here are the ones I find most compelling in this situation -

Battlehammer, longer range, explosive burst like a rocket, is literally used to knock people off ledges, which seems good here.

Volt Driver, a homing bomb which distorts vision on impact in addition to dealing damage, a real problem for someone like sonic whos entire theory of not just insta-dying here relies on precision movement

Judicator - literally freezes the oppent, opening DK up to some big charge shots

Shock Coil - basically a lancet effect that drains health from the target and heals the user.

You see, not all Kongs are created equal. Usually every man got a 100% body, but I'm a genetic freak, and I'm not normal, which means with Diddy and Dixie at percent, times the square root of Bowser, I got a 300% size body, that's 3200 pounds of gorilla canonical according to Donkey Kong 64 but times four, making it Donkey Kong 256. But then, you add BJ Blowskowitz to the match, and BJ KNOWS he can't beat me, so you take BJ's 33 1/3 percent body, and you add 33 1/3 percent because he's a robot, so he's better at math and twice as heavy , and I got a 366 2/3 percent chance of being a 5312 pound gorilla.

BUT if we was to go one-on-one with Zagreus, he slows the percent by 40%, so you REMOVE my 40% of my 300%, and now, I'm down to 120% of Donkey Kong. But you take my 3200 percent mass weight time and you subtract it to Sonic's 77 pounds, and Sonic Hedgehog, I am drunk, and you are 0.2% of my body weight, which means you are VERY DRUNK. Snoic Hedgehog, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for us at Castle Wolfenstein.

... yeah I think the debuff here is just crippling with DK's sheer size. It's still a boon to DK himself, but the fact that Aphrodite and Dionysus are spreading to a team that was already struggling in the raw damage dealing department is very, very rough. I do think the Cyberdemon fight goes well, Sonic is definitely not getting touched there, but... like, the Imperialist is a legit laser sniper rifle from Samus. DK doesn't have the reaction speed for that, even at his heightened reflexes, nor does he have a durability feat that lets me believe he wouldn't be melted by a headshot. And that's before we get into Samus slowing down time or even ask BJ to contribute. And then we throw Zagreus into the mix.

Team Samus. Mewtwo being AWOL to not give the offensive pressure really, really hurts matters here for me.

Team Festive Fog

My Sonic respect is leaps and bounds above where it was in M4 but it still ain't that strong, and Zagreus absolutely hard-counters the dude. I don't think he instagibs anyone and Zag has every reason to be inside the fog himself given Dio's passive lessening his damage within it. Festive Fog does a mini-stun constantly within it in addition to a big Slow, setting up the combo chain to turn the hedgehog into a blue smear. Not to mention that Zag has 3 Death Defiance. I can even see Sonic zooming in with a rolling attack, hitting, making a smug smirk at what he thinks is a dead Zag, and Zag just smirking back while firing his bow at his own feet to unleash the fog.

Samus can definitely take care of Expanded Dong-- er, DK, though it's not a gimme, and I also don't think Cyberdemon dies in one hit either and definitely scores some shots of the beeg monke. Mewtwo could end up helping Team Beasts... if someone could reach him first, but as I've thought about it, he's definitely too aloof and his initial inclination would be to fuck off.

Switch to abstain, was underselling Zagreus' utility.

Cyberdemon eliminates the riffraff and lets stupid sexy Zag clean up with Samus

Team Samus

Although I don't think the Cyberdemon does anything, getting chucked into the ravine the trouble of getting across without being peppered too much for dk means sonic has to do the heavy lifting in a 3v3, with bowser unable to interact. I don't think it happens.

team samus

yeah if mewtwo was on his proper team this would be different probably, zag stronk

Team Samus

Zagreus's ability is just a killer with such small team sizes.

team samus

big dk not enough

gotta go fast

I fully buy Metwo going after the humans, and they "they don't seem humanish enough" argument only really works from a visual aspect but that doesn't do much against a telepath