Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Bowser/DK/Diddy & Dixie/Sonic vs. Cyberdemon/Zagreus/B. J./Samus

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy & Dixie Kong and Sonic have challenged The Cyberdemon, Zagreus, Samus and B.J. Blazkowicz to a fight! Location of the fight: Castle Wolfenstein - The fearsome Nazi fortress itself as seen in Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, an ancient castle refitted by the german forces into a major hub for their war efforts. Claustrophobic corridors and cramped catwalks alternate with sprawling waterways, ancient cellars and dusty old catacombs. All locations are accessible, and while no Nazi scum are present, their vehicles and cable cars are fully operational. Attackers will start at the checkpoint station leading up to the castle proper, while defenders will start at the landing point on the fifth floor. Which side will win?

Guidelines

-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting
-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Diddy Kong is as he appears in Donkey Kong 64, with all upgrades and infinite Crystal Coconuts. He has access to his Super Smash Bros Ultimate moveset, with the exception of gameplay mechanics (i.e. banana forcing tripping, shield, etc.) and his Final Smash. He may use his jetpack without a Diddy Barrel.

Dixie Kong is as she appears in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. She enters the battle with Squawks, who will alert Dixie to any hidden items or enemies within ten meters, no matter how they are obscured.

Donkey Kong is as he appears in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, at Platinum Crest level. He also has access to his Mario + Rabbids: Donkey Kong Adventure skills and Golden Gyre, Smash Ultimate moveset, and his fully-upgraded coconut gun and 10 orange grenades from Donkey Kong 64. He is 300% bigger, faster (in movement speed and reflexes), and stronger too.

Sonic the Hedgehog is as he appears in Sonic Frontiers with all of his skills and abilities unlocked and all parameters fully maxed, as well as a max complement of rings. He may not transform into Super Sonic, but may use any other abilities freely as the situation demands. He will start the fight in a Power Boost state.

Bowser is as he appears in Mario & Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story, equipped with the Wicked Shell, Vampire Band, and Special Fangs X, though at his Super Mario Odyssey size. He may freely summon minions for Brawl Attacks, but only to perform the attacks, and cannot enlarge himself further or vacuum up abilities. He also has access to all abilities shown in Super Mario RPG, Super Mario Odyssey, and Super Mario 64, and may summon and use the Koopa Clown Car at will (though he only has one and it contains no minions or other weapons). He has become terrified of B.J. Blazkowicz and will try to avoid B.J. at all costs, refusing to engage him unless attacked and trying to put as much distance between them as possible at all times.

~VS~

Mewtwo is as it appears in Pokken Tournament, with all of its moves as well as those from Shadow Mewtwo in the same game, and is capable of a synergy burst on its own. It has all feats and powers demonstrated by Mewtwo in Detective Pikachu (both the game and film), aside from anything to do with swapping souls or consciousness, as well as its entire natural learnset from Pokemon: Lets Go Pikachu and Eevee, all of its natural level-up moves from Pokemon Scarlet & Violet and the move Psystrike. Teleport may only warp Mewtwo, and only to locations it has already seen in todays battle. It will start the battle at an equidistant distance from both teams or as close to it as possible while beginning at a safe position. Mewtwo will serve as a third party in the fight, with no loyalty to either team, though they will not necessarily attack anyone on sight, instead acting as their personality would suggest them to act. They are not a valid choice of victor.

~VS~

B.J. Blazkowicz is as he appears in Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, in his Ubersoldat body, with his full arsenal seen therein. All weapons are fully upgraded.

The Cyberdemon is as it appears in Doom 1 and 2. It has an unlimited supply of rockets at its disposal, and is completely immune to explosions and any form of splash damage. He starts the battle knocked down and unable to defend himself for one second, starting the battle directly in front of Bowser for today's match.

Samus Aran is as she appears in Metroid Dread. She is equipped with her Gravity Suit, all upgrades, and all Aeion abilities from both Dread and Samus Returns (though only her single, recharging Aeion tank). She also has access to her Battlehammer, Volt Driver, Magmaul, Judicator, Shock Coil and Imperialist from Metroid Prime: Hunters. Her Metroid DNA will not fully awaken during battle.

Zagreus is as he appears in Hades, having completed a successful Extreme Measures 4 run. He has access to all of the purple upgrades of the Mirror of Night, save for Fated Authority, and comes into battle with the Aegis shield and Coronacht bow, in their Chaos and Hera forms, respectively, with no Hammers applied. He has access to the boons of Aphrodite, Poseidon, Dionysus, Athena and Aphrodite again for his Attack, Special, Cast, Dash and Call abilities, plus all of the passive boons of Dionysus to supplement his power sans Duo boons, all at their highest possible rarity, which will all apply as favourably as possible even if they would normally contradict each other. In addition, he may use Hades' call and Greater Call in place of his normal call as he sees fit.

So this week's match is a pretty simple set up - we are still at Castle Wolfenstein, or Castle Cablecars as mistaya put it.

First things first - Mewtwo is beginning either deep in the castle or floating over the ravine. Odds are Mewtwo, who is a very solitary creature by nature, simply fucks off. She might be drawn to the challenge of showing its supremacy over the physically impressive ape...but in all likelihood just goes away.

My team is much the same as last week.

There are a few key differences however, for one our boy BJ has gotten some surgery done and now has a cool cyborg body. He also has some more even longer ranged weaponry in the form of RPGs and an honest to goodness sniper rifle backed up by the nazis signature plasma rounds that can usually one shot normal humans in a single blow even to the body.

We also have a new teammate in Zagreus from hades. In this loadout he has the Bow of Hera which in addition to being a fairly long range shot, can deliver spells and their effects at a distance too. This is important because Zagreus in this loadout is a walking talking debuff machine - his spell creative a festive fog, which gets its targets drunk/hungover which in game is basically a damage over time debuff but you will not he also has Dionysus' passives, so this fog also slows anyone in it to half speed. Except on my team I have one person in an airtight suit, a cyborg, a cyberdemon who is immune to non direct damage of any sort and Zagreus who is not only immune to it, he is actually given a signficant damage resistance buff. It also causes the drunkenness to be contagious, so if DK is drunk, odds are Sonic is too. Zagreus also has Aphrodite's attack and call, this causes Weakness or a 30% decrease in strength for DK and sonic, while the fog is making them 40% slower. In addition, he also has access to her call, which if she hits it, momentarily charms even the top level gods like Hades, and both Sonic and DK have a long history of being led astray by feelings of love and lust so I suspect they may be a bit more vulnerable than that. Finally, he has the poseidon special, which on his shield attack he can captain america out, he can use to push his foes which could be useful for delaying sonic or DK or knocking them back off the cable cars and into the ravine.
If things get harry, Zag can literally hold up the shield and be immune to most attacks.

Samus is here today with her Prime Hunters load out, which gives her a) her longest range guns and b) a gun which similarly has a knockback effect and she is still every bit the all around bad ass that she was.

Why is it important all 3 of them have long range attacks with fairly devastating effects? Because Cyberdemon starts in front of Team DK. The cyberdemon will be immediately be confronted by a Bowser who is so scared of BJ that he's not thinking straight and diddy kong. Cyberdemon is triple tough, taking 45 rockets to the chest at point blank to take down. And he comes with what looks an awful lot like original Doomguys BFG strapped to his arm, so being prone is really no issue for just destroying small monkeys and bowsers. So they have this big angry, apparently very fast demon in their start zone with them. He is also very LOUD, famously his scream is so loud it can be heard anywhere on the map during Doom, which I think he would obviously do once engaged in combat, thus alerting team long range guns (and bow) to the situation. In all likelihood, one of the two of Sonic and DK is gonna have to stay back and deal with the cyberdemon and given theyre both unarmed and it takes Doomguy 371 chainsaw strikes to take him down, this fight is not likely to be a short one. And if they ignore him, he is firing 3 rockets every few seconds at their backs, which won't go well either.

These things taken together and that even under the best of circumstances, Team Cartoon is still have to cross a ravine on cable cars (or cable grinding in sonics case) while debuffing and repositioning long range weaponry and powerful sniper rounds come at them.

All in all, there aren't a lot of ways even this big ape can pull this off.

Tl; dr - I have a nice number of debuffs to slow down and disorient both sonic and the ape, my team has very good long range weapons and the cyber demon is very loud and very tough allowing my team to make use of them

Shouldnt DK only be at +250% because Mewtwo isnt on his team?

Eddv posted...

Shouldnt DK only be at +250% because Mewtwo isnt on his team?

100% Dixie, 100% Diddy, 50% Bowser, 50% Sonic. Mewtwo would ramp it to 350% if he was on the team.

First I want to talk about Mewtwo.
-In RBY, he was created by scientists, hated it, and nuked the whole operation.
-In the anime, Mewtwo was created by *Team Rocket* scientists, and forced to wear a restraining power suit. He hated it and there is a whole movie of him picking a fight with humanity to prove the superiority of Pokemon. He was willing to manipulate other Pokemon to that end.
-In Pokken, he's been captured and is being corrupted.
-In Mercs, his dislike of humans is referenced in an upgrade ability.
He is "behaving according to his personality" here, in this fight of three monkeys, a spicy but scared turtle, and a hedgehog, against a demi-human with god powers, a lady in a power suit, and a guy with guns. I'll argue without him as a factor (I can respect an argument that he'd just heck off somewhere he can be left alone) but I really think he's going to be attacking Eddv's team anyway. I don't think he'll COORIDNATE with us, but I think he'll be on our side if anything.

You may have noticed that Cyberdemon wasn't mentioned there, and that's because I'm pretty sure he's freakin' dead at jump. He's mercs-magic-defenseless for one second AND prone, in the middle of my team and specifically right in front of Bowser and Diddy. Maybe Cyberdemon could shake off Bowser from prone while Diddy is clawing his eyes out, but not in time to be ready for DK and Sonic (and Dixie) on top of that. I'll be charitable and say he takes Diddy down with him, but I really don't see him getting off a hit.

Castle Wolfenstein seems to have a large exterior- I'm assuming Eddv's going to argue the hallways as cramping my big bois, but I'm not seeing a great reason I can't just attack from the outside instead of playing that game. DK's huge, Sonic's super fast, and everybody else has limited flight- I don't think we are that bothered by a mountain. If we do go inside, there are large spaces too that should actually favor DK and Bowser, and if all else fails there's the ol' Kool-Aid Man shtick.

For the battle proper, I think both teams want to be defensive- they're specced for range, and we're preferring to stick to more open areas for DK and Bowser. We probably aren't going to win a shootout, but don't write us off just yet. Bowser's got a surprisingly good kit for backline (read: away from BJ) support, including AOE Poison and Fear (halves offense AND defense) from SMRPG, minion attacks, and the ol' fire breath. Dixie....is a warm body, but every little advantage helps.

If you're reading this part I ran out of time and/or steam but I'd like to highlight:
-Sonic gets a lot from Frontiers, including actual defense parameters to not get 2-hit by everything, and a lot of new moves I haven't adequately researched yet
-DK has his Jungle Beat stuff that is good anti-projectile, and the 400% includes speed. Small hallways will slow him down, but not stop him, see also the Iwatodai fight. ....Actually, is there a reason we can't just demo the building like we were argued to there?
-Bowser has a good support kit and a durable body to use it (and, y'know, he's pretty dangerous if he actually gets to melee)
-If they're shooting Dixie they're not shooting my threats
-Zag: I think both Bow and Shield are better for crowd control than a small number of large threats as seen here. I don't think he gets the Rail Gun because of K Rool but I'm writing this before I've seen the writeup. I don't think he wants to try to tank with that setup and this opposition, but if he doesn't, who will? Aphrodite debuff hurts but doesn't last very long.

I think it's a debatable match if Mewtwo doesn't turn up. I think DK can hang with Samus, Bowser+Dixie can keep Zagreus busy, and Sonic can handle BJ in the time it would take the other two to resolve. Now, if Mewtwo DOES go after the human(oid)s, that's for sure gonna be too much for em, but I think it's winnable even in the worst case.

Well no I am not arguing your dudes are cramped and defenesless, I am arguing they need to come across a ravine via cable cars which will be very hard for everyone other than the instantly dead kongs and sonic. I give DK and Sonic credit to use the cables themselves to get across but bowser is screwed and really DKs weight may simply destroy the cables and force him to ascend up a very steep and sheer cliffside.

As for Cyber demon allow me to reference again, he takes 371 chainsaw strikes from Doomguy (courtesy of doom wiki) to take down, and Bowsers having his own problems so hes still gonna be a huge issue here and take time to handle.

Time in which the big bois and sonic are getting sniped at which will force a shift in approach.

Clown Car, rail grind, DK Up-B, Jetpack

Cyberdemon at point blank range immune to his own rockets feels like he's going to thin the chaff a bit. Don't think he will be killed in 1 second. He'll get to shoot rockets.

Mewtwo personality argument is true about hating humans tbh

Will think more later

Cyberdemon being where he is is actually advantageous to his team. He doesn't even have to stand up to start blasting

How does Sonic not solo here?

Lopen posted...

Cyberdemon at point blank range immune to his own rockets feels like he's going to thin the chaff a bit. Don't think he will be killed in 1 second. He'll get to shoot rockets.

Concur on this. About the only way this doesn't happen is if DK pins him down and aims his rocket arm away from the team. Would DK think to do that tho?

GANON1025 posted...

How does Sonic not solo here?

Samus is on the enemy team, tbf, and she's a really steep mountain to climb. Sonic is VERY good these days though, agreed.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Concur on this. About the only way this doesn't happen is if DK pins him down and aims his rocket arm away from the team. Would DK think to do that tho?

Samus is on the enemy team, tbf, and she's a really steep mountain to climb. Sonic is VERY good these days though, agreed.

Area of effect drunkenness effect that my team is immune to and sonic is not which slows him significantly (around 40%)

I was thinking about Samus too. Shes the one reason Im not just voting Sonic quite yet.

SirChris posted...

Mewtwo personality argument is true about hating humans tbh

Will think more later

Heres what Ill say to this:

My team is a cyborg, a suit of alien armor, a greek god with flaming feet and the cyberdemon which is essentially a centaur with robot bits.

Not a whole lot of strong human vibes being given off.

The castle itself gives off strong team rocket vibes though he probably just goes around fucks shit up in their labs and such since thats probably roughly where he starts if you wanna go the route that he even cares about joining a fight he cant win anyway

Ill also note that Samus does have a fair amount of homing weaponry to help handle sonic with as well as large area of effect weaponry

And if Sonic does come for Zag he can always pop up his aegis shield to block sonic

Ill also note re bowser that he wants nothing to do with crossing that ravine to fight BJ.

AriaOfBolo posted...

Clown Car, rail grind, DK Up-B, Jetpack

So prime sniper fodder x4

May be a silly question, but how does Sonic's health work in Mercs? I notice his writeup says he comes with 999 rings, does that mean he's going on "get hit, lose rings, no rings == death"?

GANON1025 posted...

May be a silly question, but how does Sonic's health work in Mercs? I notice his writeup says he comes with 999 rings, does that mean he's going on "get hit, lose rings, no rings == death"?

In Frontiers it takes him a half dozen or so hits to lose all the rings but otherwise this sounds roughly accurate.

So you can choose to see Festive fog as draining rings or as just making sonic drunk and easier to hit

Cyberdemon starting near the enemy team is pretty advantageous. He'll definitely kill the two smaller Kongs and maybe even deal enough damage to a disoriented Bowser.

With Zagreus, Samus, and B.J. all having the height advantage and long range options the only one who will realistically get to the enemy team is Sonic, and he isn't beating all three of them.

Really their only shot is if Mewtwo attacks Samus's team exclusively, but most of the time I don't think that's something that can be relied on here.

Team Samus and friends

GANON1025 posted...

May be a silly question, but how does Sonic's health work in Mercs? I notice his writeup says he comes with 999 rings, does that mean he's going on "get hit, lose rings, no rings == death"?

Works like it does in cutscenes. So, y'know

https://youtu.be/kDlpnEV7K7c?t=146

More this than lmao rings. I gained a lot of Sonic durability respect with Frontiers, tbqqqqh.

Oh yeah, Sonic is extremely durable. He kinda always has been, since he uses himself as his own bullet. But Frontiers, and the IDW Comics, have some pretty good feats that show it off more.

Team Samus

Cyberdemon is gonna do some good damage before he goes down

Might even AOE some Sonic rings

I honestly think Mewtwo is a more viable victor choice than Sonic's team here. That Cyberdemon is gonna wreck against two bruisers who won't dodge his rockets and two frail monkeys

Samus's team cleans up pretty easily. Samus has a good kit for kiting the monkey.

I would vote mewtwo if I could tbh

team samus

Team dk just doesn't have the fire power

So Sonic is really good, and if Mewtwo was working with his team, him, DK and Sonic could do some actual damage

...Unfortunately, he isn't. So this goes poorly.

Team Samus

Good try tho

I feel it's important to note that Zagreus's current loadout does NOT have any means to inflict Hangover, thus blanking most of Dionysus's passive boons.

That said, Festive Fog is stronk on its own.

Won't vote yet, I actually might buy Mewtwo helping out fellow beasts as they resist the big bad humies.

Right the more important part for me is the aoe slowing effect.

Well, given a bit, I don't think the Cyberdemon is that much of an actual threat, for the exact reasons that was given that the place was such an effective defense location last time. Taking mechanic thoughts into line with +300% strength/agility, from rabbids, donkey kong can chuck someone 24 cells worth of distance. I'm not sure in comparison what that translates to, but with that cliff being right there, the term "Ring Out" seems to be a plausible situation. I do think it's an uphill battle without mewtwo active but I want to hear the arguments as if getting to the other side wasn't the problem, minus bowser who is at extremely long range in his Koopa Klown Car, flying way overhead, probably with some binoculars, flinching every time BJ looks up at the thing.

ZeeksFire posted...

Well, given a bit, I don't think the Cyberdemon is that much of an actual threat, for the exact reasons that was given that the place was such an effective defense location last time. Taking mechanic thoughts into line with +300% strength/agility, from rabbids, donkey kong can chuck someone 24 cells worth of distance. I'm not sure in comparison what that translates to, but with that cliff being right there, the term "Ring Out" seems to be a plausible situation. I do think it's an uphill battle without mewtwo active but I want to hear the arguments as if getting to the other side wasn't the problem, minus bowser who is at extremely long range in his Koopa Klown Car, flying way overhead, probably with some binoculars, flinching every time BJ looks up at the thing.

Well I gave plenty but Zagreus has some great debuffs - he can inflict weak which takes down 30% of DKs strength and Festive fog which on this particular build gives a 40% slowing effect and a damage reduction effect.

Samus has her guns that are peak kiting efficiency since they do knockback effects and shes got the speed and the narrow corridors to retreat into if necessary

Finally there is BJ and while for long range he has rpgs and sniper rifles, short range he has plasma ammo on dualwielded automatic machine guns which are gonna tear through the still unarmored giant ape

I was talking beside you Eddv, i did read things, and do realize that it's probably still a nasty battle and will probably still put it your side, i just want to hear what voters think rather than just the arguments of both sides, because I don't think Mewtwo will stick around in the location.

ZeeksFire posted...

Well, given a bit, I don't think the Cyberdemon is that much of an actual threat, for the exact reasons that was given that the place was such an effective defense location last time. Taking mechanic thoughts into line with +300% strength/agility, from rabbids, donkey kong can chuck someone 24 cells worth of distance. I'm not sure in comparison what that translates to, but with that cliff being right there, the term "Ring Out" seems to be a plausible situation. I do think it's an uphill battle without mewtwo active but I want to hear the arguments as if getting to the other side wasn't the problem, minus bowser who is at extremely long range in his Koopa Klown Car, flying way overhead, probably with some binoculars, flinching every time BJ looks up at the thing.

If Mewtwo just buzzes off, the matchup is very lopsided largely because DK is gonna have a horrible time trying to close in unless you think Sonic would scout out on his own. There's two entrances and unless somebody tells Donkey to go take a dive and go underwater, he isn't gonna take the path that won't get him shot to death on the approach. If he somehow made it into Castle Wolfenstein proper...that makes things more thann a little painful for everyone else not named Samus. The issue is Samus can fight him and win without that much trouble, as DK is not exactly as dangerous as Ridley, who's not even the most dangerous foe Samus has faced either. It's really Samus making the diff I think. If she wasn't here Aria's team could do something.

This is tough for me, because I think Sonic can get into the castle and deal with everyone but Samus quite easily. If he had a bit more backup for the Samus fight hed cinch it which makes the neutral Mewtwo fights for the beasts against the humans argument appealing..

Sonic (almost) solos

I think I just have very different respect levels than the voters here. Sonic is unbeatable against most conventional Mercs and 4x DK would beat Samus, not struggle with Ridley.

Again sonic is going against a very strong kiting set up here.

The festive fog alone is a real curveball for someone who relies on speed not to mention there is a LOT of projectile fire which, having played Sonic Frontiers, he can handle SOME but a TON of

I'm not arguing Cyberdemon dies in one second, I'm arguing he loses the initiative in one second and doesn't get a chance to regain it while being dogpiled by my whole team

Eddv posted...

he can always pop up his aegis shield to block sonic

only works against frontal attacks, and zag ain't fast enough to parry everything and sonic ain't dumb enough to keep hitting a shield head on

Eddv posted...

My team is a cyborg, a suit of alien armor, a greek god with flaming feet

human lookin guy, armor like what Giovanni locked him in, human lookin guy (and Cyberdemon)

I absolutely think Cyberdemon dies in one second. That's one second of inactivity against a giant DK with 4x speed and 4x reach, and Sonic the Hedgehog.

KamikazePotato posted...

Sonic (almost) solos

I think I just have very different respect levels than the voters here. Sonic is unbeatable against most conventional Mercs and 4x DK would beat Samus, not struggle with Ridley.

Nah KP, I'm pretty with you aside from Samus. I absolutely would've voted for Sonic and DK if she wasn't there, I'm just super impressed by her Dread form.

Dread Samus is very good but I don't think it actually made her any different from earlier Samus other than giving her some much-needed melee expertise. Changed from being useless at melee to decent.

Against this team I think she struggles heavily. Sonic is extremely strong versus characters with primarily ranged attacks, and characters without godlike reflexes. DK on the surface is similar to bosses that Samus beats regularly, but in actuality is both way faster AND stronger than any of them. Also if Samus' team is hiding in Castle Wolfenstein then DK literally collapses it on top of them, angry that he's too big to get inside lmao

KamikazePotato posted...

Dread Samus is very good but I don't think it actually made her any different from earlier Samus other than giving her some much-needed melee expertise. Changed from being useless at melee to decent.

Against this team I think she struggles heavily. Sonic is extremely strong versus characters with primarily ranged attacks, and characters without godlike reflexes. DK on the surface is similar to bosses that Samus beats regularly, but in actuality is both way faster AND stronger than any of them. Also if Samus' team is hiding in Castle Wolfenstein then DK literally collapses it on top of them, angry that he's too big to get inside lmao

Hm

How big is dk normally

The problem with DK is I'm not even sure how he even gets to the castle. at 400% he sure as hell isn't riding a cable car up there

idk, I just estimated 6 feet tall normally, which would make Expanded DK 24 feet tall

Arti posted...

The problem with DK is I'm not even sure how he even gets to the castle. at 400% he sure as hell isn't riding a cable car up there

Is the cable car literally the only way there? From the last match I thought there were side paths up/down the mountain, and that the cable car was just the most obvious & fastest route

...

Apparently dk is 8 feet tall???

KamikazePotato posted...

Dread Samus is very good but I don't think it actually made her any different from earlier Samus other than giving her some much-needed melee expertise. Changed from being useless at melee to decent.

Against this team I think she struggles heavily. Sonic is extremely strong versus characters with primarily ranged attacks, and characters without godlike reflexes. DK on the surface is similar to bosses that Samus beats regularly, but in actuality is both way faster AND stronger than any of them. Also if Samus' team is hiding in Castle Wolfenstein then DK literally collapses it on top of them, angry that he's too big to get inside lmao

Doesn't she have bullet time with Returns + Dread or am I tripping

I could've sworn this came up before, correct me if wrong

That's part of why I took her to deal with Sonic so well

KamikazePotato posted...

Is the cable car literally the only way there? From the last match I thought there were side paths up/down the mountain, and that the cable car was just the most obvious & fastest route

Also yes, I can confirm there's one other path through the waterways. If you feel Sonic would go scouting and not get baited into a fight, DK 100% gets a way in that doesn't involve getting shot to shreds.

32 foot 4x dk maybe just leaps over the chasm lol

Cyberdemon is just dead?

I didn't really think dk was that big

SirChris posted...

...

Apparently dk is 8 feet tall???

And you can't teach that.

He has bad posture tho so it's more like 6ft

Cyberdemon is dead instantly to Sonic, that thing was never an issue imo

Okay so 32 foot tall/24 with bad posture dk is a uhh

A problem for everyone even samus

And mewtwo isn't siding against dk vs humanoids and dk isn't being quiet

I thought dk was like half this size I am stupid