Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Tails/Mew2/DK/MG KONG/Bowser/Sonic v Eunie/Crono/Trevor Sypha/Aigis/TLW

(+) Yeah! (+)

How good are those revives? Because Eunie may just be a bloodstain after taking that punch.

SirChris posted...

assuming all of this is true, who is boxing the kongs iyo?

Not JC but I'd expect Eunie to mess with RAY big time -- probably stall it for several minutes while everyone else handles DK. There's precedent for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0dQxH7ybHs

Basically expect something like this. Now if Sonic lives tho, this all goes out the window. RAY is ass against this kind of gimmickry but Sonic can waste it with sonic booms in a flash. So Sonic's survival is hugely important here I think.

Mewtwo59 posted...

How good are those revives? Because Eunie may just be a bloodstain after taking that punch.

I like to think Samarecarm as a full HP revive has some pretty good reconstituting powers!

Mewtwo59 posted...

How good are those revives? Because Eunie may just be a bloodstain after taking that punch.

Marle has a better revive than Crono's and it can't stop a party member's cutscene death, and likewise multiple people have Recarms in the Persona 3 cast and can't stop a party member's cutscene death.

I'd put both at sub-Golden Sun healing magic, because that one at least has a feat of instant-fixing broken bones in cutscene. Eunie herself is also almost definitely the best healer because XB healing can get nuts, but can't heal if dead.

Alright, so general thoughts after thinking this out:

-I absolutely interpret Fulminating Belmont as "Trevor gets hit by God Lightning and goes super demigod mode for a hot second". This, combined with time stop, I think does really massive damage to Mewtwo before they can escape, or at the very least, rattles the, quite a lot and lets the rest of the squad beat them up.

-Eunie is dead, and Aigis needs a second to get her thoughts in order to revive. Crono can do a less cool revive I guess, and Aigis can top that off.

-Sonic... I don't think beefs it here. Light is legitimately something that he's BEEN before, it's probably the element closest to him other than wind, so I think he manages to live. He's pretty beat up, though, and Tails only really has regen for him. I don't buy him scouting, he'd need a lot more time for it to patch up.

-If Aigis can get off Heritage Liberator here, I think THAT'S a very juicy attack that'll really deal some great damage to one of RAY and DK. If she can combo that with Eunie's Big Ouroboros Laser, I think there's some real great prospects for big damage.

-If she doesn't... that's bad. Tails is basically ensuring that not just Sonic gets regen here; RAY gets a double stack and DK gets some, too. Add in that he has a plane and a tiny robot to scout things out with, and even without Mewtwo, the scope of the terrain is rough.

-Trevor matches up insanely well against Sonic right now, as does Taion's Ouroboros Form... but both of those have pretty strong limitations and Eunie needs to be a damage dealer to handle RAY. With Aigis as the other main offensive output (out of necessity), this leaves Crono, Sypha, and Lone Wanderer open to hunt down DK, Tails and Bowser. Which I do think they CAN manage, but it's a very protracted fight.

-The longer Tails stays alive, the worse things are. I have to figure out how quickly Lone Wanderer susses the guy out as a decent backbone. Tails dropping a flash bomb or suiciding to debuff Aigis is real rough.

Tricky match, lot of variables to consider. Honestly not sure where I'm leaning right now, though I'll admit I need to dive into LW's stuff just a bit more.

I'd say TLW is actually way more deepsy than Aigis, personally. Her basic move is shooting finger guns. His basic move is a rapidfire laser minigun. Bit of a power jump there. Like don't even consider the Fat Man here (which would really mess DK up in particular if tagged) -- it's mostly just that a laser minigun is very good ordnance and a weapon that would actually function against Sonic also. Great material to work with as a baseline, and moreso since TLW is actually tanky enough to sit in a Power Ring and reap the benefits of an attack buff unlike Aigis. It's why Sonic getting in on him is so value -- a slow, tanky, high dps enemy getting Cylooped and disabled is a game changer because I think if TLW bites it, Team Eunie is stuck relying on slow and predictable offense to seal the deal, instead of something more flexible.

Team Tails

Tails having a heal does probably keep Sonic in it and with the elite scouting skills of that duo Ray can crush the enemy team on the approach other than maybe TLW and Aigis and the Rays healing factor makes that a hellaciously difficult fight with sonic able to run interference.

KJH posted...

I'd put both at sub-Golden Sun healing magic, because that one at least has a feat of instant-fixing broken bones in cutscene. Eunie herself is also almost definitely the best healer because XB healing can get nuts, but can't heal if dead.

Eunie isn't a healer here. She does have Vortex, but since that's based off of the Full Metal Jaguar's awful Healing Power, it's basically worthless.

Mewtwo is 100% dead, I do not buy a teleport out before Sypha can lay down some hard CC to let Goku unload on them, and Trevor can force a time stop if he has to seal the deal. No sneaky escapes for this legendary.

Sonic... I'm still thinking. Also if we're talking about Sonic and Tails remember that Tails has decided to idolize Metal Gear Kong instead of him and Sonic might be a little bit sore about that! So I'm not sure how much friendship power those two should maintain given the circumstances.

Eunie dies to DK punch, Crono can toss her a pity raise on his way out the door with the other guys and let Aigis heal her once she's shaken off her dizzy spell. They will both be slightly late to the party.

We might need to talk about Raises in general for the game since they're incredibly strong, but I don't think we can suddenly no-sell them in just one topic. If DK's punch couldn't be raised off then it would specifically say so, like Vivi's bold text or a few other examples. Not gonna pretend it doesn't work when it's worked just fine in every other topic.

Tails is very squish. Very. Squish. He would absolutely get sniped out of the sky if he just flew around carelessly. If he wants to scout, he can try, but it's real risky and as his team's only healer that seems like a poor use of him. Sypha and Goku can both handle sniping him out of the sky if he's even a little bit exposed. Plus him being out front means RAY can't go completely ham, which it seems like RAY would be best off doing.

I'm not sure what this fight hinges on quite yet. Sonic being alive or not is a big part of it though. I think DK's behavior is also really important.

I do think the Aigis/Eunie/Goku squad has enough firepower to take Ray out, that's not a question. Do I think Sonic being alive swings it though...? Trevor and Sypha are free to go after Sonic if he IS alive- or at least stall him while the others take out RAY. Crono could handle Bowser, probably? Tails healing seems like he needs to use a robot which could be destroyed if it was found. Not prepared to give Tails healing credit without knowing more about it. If it's just a regen that's not super impressive when confronted with big bursts of damage, which his enemies are putting out loads of.

Hm. Need to think more about how Sonic and DK end up to know how I'm voting.

we've reached critical mass of too many people total + too many people I'm too lazy to research to give an informed vote

Tails solos

there are many scenarios where the other team wins, I just think they are in the 40-45% range compared to the other team who has easier win scenarios in a multitude of situations.

good match though.

FFDragon posted...

we've reached critical mass of too many people total + too many people I'm too lazy to research to give an informed vote

When in doubt, go with Sonic

I think Sonic dies but I think Sonic is 100% unnecessary here. Metal Gear?!? with regen + Mewtwo can't really be stopped by the enemy team. Mewtwo can basically pick enemies off at will while the Ray acts as a dangerous distraction. They just don't have the output to bring the Ray down and Mewtwo is too mobile to be taken down with a giant Metal Gear romping around providing him cover

Metal Gear Kong

Tails is very squish. Very. Squish. He would absolutely get sniped out of the sky if he just flew around carelessly. If he wants to scout, he can try, but it's real risky and as his team's only healer that seems like a poor use of him. Sypha and Goku can both handle sniping him out of the sky if he's even a little bit exposed. Plus him being out front means RAY can't go completely ham, which it seems like RAY would be best off doing.

Legit all Tails needs to accomplish with scouting is "hey they're that way" for KONG its not like were asking her to find hidden passages or whatever.

Lopen posted...

I think Sonic dies but I think Sonic is 100% unnecessary here. Metal Gear?!? with regen + Mewtwo can't really be stopped by the enemy team. Mewtwo can basically pick enemies off at will while the Ray acts as a dangerous distraction. They just don't have the output to bring the Ray down and Mewtwo is too mobile to be taken down with a giant Metal Gear romping around providing him cover

Metal Gear Kong

dont forget mewtwo is dead though

like hes not getting out from time stop Trevor and being frozen

Eddv posted...

Tails is very squish. Very. Squish. He would absolutely get sniped out of the sky if he just flew around carelessly. If he wants to scout, he can try, but it's real risky and as his team's only healer that seems like a poor use of him. Sypha and Goku can both handle sniping him out of the sky if he's even a little bit exposed. Plus him being out front means RAY can't go completely ham, which it seems like RAY would be best off doing.

Legit all Tails needs to accomplish with scouting is "hey they're that way" for KONG its not like were asking her to find hidden passages or whatever.

VATS would spot tails before Tails spotted Goku tbhhhhhh

Team Fulminating Belmont

After thinking on it, here is my general thoughts on how fight distribution goes:

Ouroboros Eunie & TLW Vs RAY & Big DK
Trevor & Sypha Vs Sonic
Crono Vs Bowser

Which leaves the 'free space' to help support any given side as Aigis and Tails. If DK were rushing into the fray, I would absolutely take that he stomps, but he's not, and will probably want to avoid any big shots he sees by assuming RAY can take it. RAY eventually will not be able to take it.

Sonic would normally stomp the god power couple, but Tails' Heal Bot is purely regen-focused rather than an instant patch. I do not think Sonic is back up to full by the time an engagement happens, and "making ice on the floor" and "stopping time" are real solid answers to Sonic's tricks. Not absolute answers, mind you, but enough that he has to take a bit, sustains damage, and most importantly, can't really disrupt anyone else. Plus if he starts, Trevor is absolutely going to mouth off to him. You can't tell me Sonic would NOT be provoked by Trevor Belmont, like. They are absolutely going to quip at each other, and if there's one thing Sonic can get carried away doing, it's showboating against someone mouthing off to him.

Otherwise I just respect Lone Wanderer's sheer damage output, like they're just. Really good at shooting things with stuff that sounds more impressive than bullets, and Taion and Eunie are really good at distracting really big robots that are honestly more impressive than RAY. If DK were stomping them, I think it's a different story, but at most, DK is trying to clap to stun them while hiding behind his big friend, or throwing RAY at them like a giant laser-equipped baseball.

And I think ALL of this is plausible... if Aigis wasn't a free body. But unfortunately, she is, and that does a LOT to act as a battery for anyone who's struggling in their match-ups. I think she's out of her disorientation by the time the fight starts, and I think she's pretty amazing as a free body to lend support where needed be, be that healing, freidyne, as a distraction, buffs, a revive, etc. She can even swap with Eunie when Ouroboros needs to go on cooldown as a solid stall for RAY-KONG.

This is a razor-thin margin, mind you, but I think there are just more situations and permutations where Team Belmont chokes out a victory (though all of them require Mewtwo to be dead, which... yeah I buy, VATS is gonna make sure that guy's taking damage, and Belmont time stop is great insurance that the threshold to kill the 'mon is met).

Having had time to sleep on it going with Team VATS, I think Goku is kind of hard carrying here.

Thinking about it, I still don't see why the whole "destroy the dilapidated building" strat won't work. Mewtwo being in there is the only reason I think they wouldn't do it, but if they write him off as dead, I think RAY opens up by blasting the building. Now, I actually believe that Aigis and TLW can survive and dig their way out of it, but everyone else is dead, and a res isn't going to help unless Aigis and TLW want to spend time digging everyone else out. Eunie could survive it with an interlink, but she's dead and not coming back until it's too late.

From there, I think Team Kong has enough to win this, especially with RAY's double regen.

So I was super on the fence about this match and could go either way, was thinking Eunie could split off RAY and basically take it out of the fight for minutes at a time with Ouroboros, which would make this a Crono/Sypha/Trevor/Aigis/TLW showdown vs scaredy DK, Bowser, Tails and Sonic and I kinda take the former to win that fight...

...But Mewtwo's right. JC's team starts in the capitol building, which is the ONLY place where the team could be and very obviously at that, killing Mewtwo and rezzing Eunie. And I think Mewtwo dies for sure, but it takes 5-10 seconds and a few more to rez Eunie and heal.

...And Metal Gear KONG has a fuckoff huge laser that destroys buildings. This would be a really tough match if it wasn't for that where I vote for Team JC. Really unlucky that they start in a building that can be blown up by a move that would never, ever hit the mercenaries themselves fairly trivially.

I like the duality of votes where mewtwo survives and helps his team and the ones where his team just doesnt give a fuck and kills him too

Eh, I don't think it's obvious that's the only place they could be. It's certainly a big easy target, but also RAY taking potshots at the Capitol building is probably destroying the dome first which leaves at least a little time for everyone to get out. It specifically says "near the west entrance" so at worst Aigis gets left behind in there. This fight is way too interesting for 'rocks fall everyone dies' at the start imo, if Sonic or Tails were scouting and confirmed they holed up in the Capitol building I'd buy that but they're rushing out to meet RAY so nawwww. Not enough time.

Honestly, I buy it with this team. RAY is a cold, logical machine. Bowser's a villain. DK is fine with it because it means he doesn't have to go in the big scary building. Tails is too busy worrying about Sonic to protest, and Sonic is a guy who has a whole theme song about how it doesn't matter what's wrong or right as long as you win.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/2/3/AAAelnAAEUGr.jpg