Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Tails/Mew2/DK/MG KONG/Bowser/Sonic v Eunie/Crono/Trevor Sypha/Aigis/TLW

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tails, Mewtwo, Donkey Kong, Metal Gear KONG, Bowser and Sonic have challenged Eunie, Crono, Trevor Belmont and Sypha Belnades, Aigis and Goku Kong to a fight! Location of the fight: The Capitol Building - The location where the United States Congress convened before the bombs dropped on Fallout's version of the USA. The building has fallen on hard times but is still navigable, and the trench network leading up to it provides ample cover for would-be infiltrators. No enemies or NPCs are present, and the turrets may not be activated. Attackers will start in the area overlooking the trenches by the Mall (which is inaccessible past the overlook), while defenders will start inside the conference hall, near the west entrance. Which side will win?

Guidelines
-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting
-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Bowser is as he appears in Mario & Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story, equipped with the Wicked Shell, Vampire Band, and Special Fangs X, though at his Super Mario Odyssey size. He may freely summon minions for Brawl Attacks, but only to perform the attacks, and cannot enlarge himself further or vacuum up abilities. He also has access to all abilities shown in Super Mario RPG, Super Mario Odyssey, and Super Mario 64, and may summon and use the Koopa Clown Car at will (though he only has one and it contains no minions or other weapons).

Sonic the Hedgehog is as he appears in Sonic Frontiers with all of his skills and abilities unlocked and all parameters fully maxed, as well as a max complement of rings. He may not transform into Super Sonic, but may use any other abilities freely as the situation demands. He will start the fight in a Power Boost state.

Mewtwo is as it appears in Pokken Tournament, with all of its moves as well as those from Shadow Mewtwo in the same game, and is capable of a synergy burst on its own. It has all feats and powers demonstrated by Mewtwo in Detective Pikachu (both the game and film), aside from anything to do with swapping souls or consciousness, as well as its entire natural learnset from Pokemon: Lets Go Pikachu and Eevee and the move Psystrike. Teleport may only warp Mewtwo, and only to locations it has already seen in todays battle. They will start the battle next to Aigis' team on their back, having been hit by a belly to back suplex from her, damaging them.

Metal Gear KONG is as it appears in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, with full access to all of its attacks and in top condition. It is under a permanent Regen effect, as seen in the Final Fantasy series.

Tails is as he appears in the Sonic series. He has access to all of his equipment from Sonic Battle and Tails Adventure, all of his POW moves from Sonic Chronicles, and may call down the Tornado-01, as it appears in Sonic Unleashed, with his Tails Electric. The Tornado is considered to be flying about three seconds behind his teams starting location.

Donkey Kong is as he appears in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, at Platinum Crest level. He also has access to his Mario + Rabbids: Donkey Kong Adventure skills and Golden Gyre, Smash Ultimate moveset, and his fully-upgraded coconut gun and 10 orange grenades from Donkey Kong 64. He is 250% bigger, faster (in movement speed and reflexes) and stronger too. He has panicked, and will be constantly paranoid of his own mortality and looking to preserve his life however possible.

~VS~

Eunie is as she appears in Xenoblade Chronicles 3. She is a Full Metal Jaguar at its highest level, with access to all of its arts and skills, as well as Power Ring, Blossom Dance and Vortex. She is may interlink with Taion at Level 3 whenever she wants, provided her Ouroboros is not on cooldown. Both Eunie and Taion are considered to have maxed-out Spirit Trees. Taion is not present, except for the purpose of interlinking with Eunie. She has been hit by DK's full power Giant Punch, damaging her and knocking her back.

Goku Kong, the Lone Wanderer, is as s/he appears in Fallout 3 and its DLCs. He is equipped with T-51b Power Armor (with a matching helmet), Callahan's Magnum, silenced 10mm pistol, Reservist's Rifle, Vengeance, Eugene, Firelance, Tri-Beam Laser Rifle, Jingwei's Shocksword, Shishkebab, one Stealth Boy, and the Fat Man with 3 Little Boy mini-nukes. He is accompanied by Dogmeat and is considered to have the Almost Perfect perk, fully maxed out skills, and well as a full collection of Vault Boy bobbleheads.

Crono is as he appears in Chrono Trigger's latest version, with a set of full endgame equipment and access to all his techs. He may perform combination techs with his allies should the situation demand it. He has performed the Fulminating Belmont dual tech, based on his Luminaire and Trevor Belmont's Grand Cross, hitting Sonic and damaging him.The dual tech's effect is up to interpretation, but will never be less damaging or helpful than the sum of each technique or spell's individual effects.

Aigis is as she appears in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax with all of her moves available. Pallas Athena also has all of her skills and properties from Persona 3 and Persona Q2 available. She must actively focus to apply the effects of Aegis Shielding, but it will always trigger if she does so. She has been hit by Mewtwo's Psychic, damaging her. She will be constantly aware of Mewtwo's positioning throughout the fight and will prioritize taking them down if possible. She will be extremely dizzy and nauseous for 30 seconds at the start of the battle.

Trevor Belmont is as he appears in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness and the Castlevania Netflix anime. He has access to all of his sub-weapons, as well as all feats demonstrated in the pachislot games and the Grand Cross spell. Trevors Time Stop only affects himself.

Sypha Belnades is as she appears in the Castlevania Netflix anime. She has access to all techniques shown by Fake Sypha in Portrait of Ruin, as well as all her attacks and abilities from Castlevania Judgement, though she may only revive Trevor.

Gonna be a low effort week from me I'm afraid.

-Consensus seems to be that Eunie and Sonic are DOA. I'd like to remind folks that Frontier Sonic has more durability than a wet paper bag, but I'll skip over that in exchange for not having to research Eunie.
-Mewtwo I'll argue a bit harder for. The suplex is not gonna OHKO him. He's got good Defense and great Speed. Teleport is gonna be key here- one could argue that he is able to teleport back to start, depending on interp of mercs magic. Even if he can't do THAT, I'm not convinced the other team can kill him before he gets away. He's got Teleport for kiting, Agility and Confuse Ray and Recover and Safeguard for defense, I'm pretty sure a lot more speed than any of the enemy, and IIRC a few AOE moves (Psywave, Swift, Confusion?) to do some last resort damage if he's going down.
-Aigis is disoriented for 30 seconds AND wanting to recover that Psychic. She survives and heals, but that's time spent not throwing up other buffs or helping with Mewtwo.
-If you're a big dual tech name respecter, I'll point out that "Fulminating" might imply a kamikaze element: "LITERARY
explode violently or flash like lightning.
'thunder fulminated around the house'"
-This is another fight where I'm wondering why we don't just wreck the building with my giant monkey and my giant turtle and my kid with airstrikes and my freakin' Metal Gear. It's a believable strat for a panicky DK, as well as my other big lugs trying to fight inside a building. I also think it'll hurt JC's threats more than mine if we do some demo work, as they're a good bit flimsier probably.
-DK is scared and that sucks but he strikes me more as a lashing out kinda type than a cowering type. I don't think he'll take point, I don't think he'll be at full effectiveness or teamwork, but I think he's going to contribute and I think he's still one of the best fighters around. Remember, he's not just bigger and stronger, but also MUCH faster.
-They've got numbers but I've got durability. RAY is the toughest thing on the field and has perma-Regen, Bowser is very big and has a thick shell and survives all kinds of abuse, DK is the weak link defensively but he is still a very big very wild monkey. I think they lose pretty much any 1v1 that doesn't involve Tails, so I think it's gonna be close but I think we'll be able to ride em out. And if Mewtwo is alive, it won't be that close.

JC's argument:

The Terrain - The Capitol

My team starts just inside the Capitol, and the attackers probably start around the position in the image below - if not a bit further back from the building. The important part of the arena is the approach with the trenches, as my team will recognize fighting in the open is needed against DK and RAY. The trenches and tunnels provide my team extremely good cover to duck in and out of, given their mobility. It's a really advantageous open battlefield to fight against a large Mech in.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/4/6/AAM0NeAAETxK.jpg

Anyways, on to the rest of the match. Let's start with the Start of Battles.

• Mewtwo has been Suplex'd, and is starting on the ground on his back beside my team, hurt and unbuffed against my team. He gets CC'd immediately by Sypha or whoever else, and is taken out quickly. I think Mewtwo's actually pretty dazed from the Suplex, it looks like it has a pretty thin neck. Ouch.
• Eunie has been Banana Slamma'd. She is dead. But she gets revived once Mewtwo has been dealt with.
• Aigis has been Psychic'd by Mewtwo. She heals it off quickly once Mewtwo has been dispatched. She's also tracking Mewtwo but that's mostly irrelevant.
• Sonic has been hit by Fulminating Belmont - a combo of Luminaire and Trevor's Grand Cross. We all know Luminaire. But what you don't know is Grand Cross! Long story short, he's dead. Timestamp 1:06 if it doesn't go automatically: https://youtu.be/0eKbtxrMGnU?t=66
• DK is paranoid and will do whatever it takes to preserve his life. This does not bode well for DK. It effectively leaves RAY against my team.
• RAY has been given regen. This is slightly annoying, but not fatal by any means.

From my view, the match is now Bowser, RAY, Tails, and DK (Paranoid) vs. Ouroboros Eunie/Taion, Aigis, Goku, Crono, Trevor, and Sypha. RAY in particular is a merc that relies on a lot of splash damage, so I don't think DK will be anywhere near the fight. I think he ends up being the last man standing and is just ganged up on by my team once RAY is taken out eventually.

Once Mewtwo is dead and my team has revived Eunie, healed, and buffed, they rush outside to snipe from a distance. RAY is probably fairly close now, but it's not really too much of an issue. Eunie/Taion run interference and fire large laser cannons at RAY when not distracting with clones. TLW has a Stealth Boy and can go invisible at the start of the engagement, preparing to lob his 3 Mini Nukes at RAY. With VATS, and a distracted and possibly CC'd (Sypha's ice is still super strong) he won't miss. He then sits back and peppers it with gatling lasers and any other combination of his strongest weapons.

Trevor and Crono are likely enough to deal with Bowser and Tails quickly while RAY is distracted by Eunie and Aigis. Sypha may lend a hand given that she's incredibly mobile.

Aigis likely resorts to using Freidyne to damage RAY, and then once the rest of my team is freed up to help out, RAY really can't do much even with its regen. She keeps RAY's defenses debuffed as well. Maybe throws out a few revives, but likely not super needed here.

Eunie is a Full Metal Jaguar and has Violent Streak and Blossom Dance when she's no longer in Ouroboros, which allow her to attack with armor-piercing damage. A large mech is also an excellent opponent for FMJ Eunie because it makes it easy for her to land shots and stack her damage to up to +255% or something like that. Don't quote me on the exact number but it's around there. She also has Power Ring, a damage buff field, as well as Vortex, which does AoE damage and heals her and any other nearby allies.

Also I desperately want to imagine Sypha impaling REX like this: https://youtu.be/fgF1bdliFKs?t=119 (Timestamp 1:59)

Anyways the jist of the fight is that Sonic and Mewtwo die immediately, DK won't fight, and my team can whittle RAY down because they have a lot of interference and Goku will take it down fairly quickly.

I forgot that Aigis was Sonic Boom'd for the first 30s but ultimately it doesn't change much. Mewtwo is still dead and Crono can revive Eunie, who can heal herself and others with Vortex. My team has to wait a bit for buffs but that just delays the eventual engagement and means my team won't get as much of an advantage since RAY will have closed in on the building by then. In any case, the argument is still to run interference and just whittle RAY down.

Permanently regenning Ray err KONG is gonna be a bitch in this terrain and Im really not sure whats gonna take him down

serious question and possible feedback for admins

'regen as seen in final fantasy' is extremely ambiguous and i have no idea how to quantify it because looking at the wiki, there's quite a range

Chaeix posted...

serious question and possible feedback for admins

'regen as seen in final fantasy' is extremely ambiguous and i have no idea how to quantify it because looking at the wiki, there's quite a range

We'll see what we can do post TR. Not too difficult to clarify it.

Why would Sonic be DOA?

It is hard for me to imagine a better thought than a paranoid-for-his-life DK wildly spinning RAY around as a shield while it shoots a death laser everywhere, destroying everything.

I don't have many further thoughts at the moment, a lot to consider, but I think it's quite funny.

To be clear, I get that Sonic was hit by a dual tech that's a combination of Luminaire and Grand Cross. So.... then he gets up

GANON1025 posted...

To be clear, I get that Sonic was hit by a dual tech that's a combination of Luminaire and Grand Cross. So.... then he gets up

Grand Cross killed a dragon straight up so uh Sonic is not getting up.

Grand Cross is strong, no doubt, but I think Sonic is way more durable than a random dragon.

Sonic is remarkably tanky as of Frontiers. It's possible he survives (though unlikely -- call it a 25% shot in my head?), but if he does he's in bad shape and will not be able to fight very well at all. Mewtwo's survival or death is critical for this reason -- if he escapes, both Mewtwo and Sonic can survive and get back to fighting shape and then this match is crazy even. If he doesn't, neither is worth a damn and it's a team of monster killers against giant monsters, which is a bad matchup.

FF Regen in 5-7 at least is based on a percentage of the target's hp/stamina per tic, so being on a Revengeance era Ray is pretty good. If they were mass produced Arsenal Gear ones they'd be more of a joke.

So I don't see why RAY doesn't just destroy the building that's been dilapidated for 200 years. There's no way DK is going in there with his size and his fear, and the other team can't really take a building falling on them.

Mewtwo59 posted...

So I don't see why RAY doesn't just destroy the building that's been dilapidated for 200 years. There's no way DK is going in there with his size and his fear, and the other team can't really take a building falling on them.

Yeah... even IF Sonic WERE dead, RAY seems really strong here

Got a headache so I will be brief

Sonic dead
Eunie dead
Mewtwo next to enemy team not great since mewtwo has shown the ability to asap fly out of danger at very high speeds. I don't think they can nuke him before he counter attacks and bounces. He can at least teleport short range to get meaningful distance
Dk with metal gear Kong shield is a problem that I don't think has an answer.
Bowser helps

Change my mind etc

I think for me this does boil down to whether I think Sonic survives the dual tech

If he does and can scout the approach of Team Trevor the Ray is just gonna wreck face here.

This is probably what I'd base Sonic durability respect on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW33q8YW-jI

Which is "good that he lived... but he passes out from this".

So y'know, extrapolate from there how Tails tries to power of friendship Sonic to consciousness or whatever.

I can't believe I have to pull out IDW feats.... (and yes, IDW is canon to Sonic Frontiers AFAIK)

Some more Sonic durability feats:

Amy knocks Sonic into a ship's energy cell, blowing it and him up in it. He gets back up from this with a couple scratches:

https://imgur.com/a/9k5WQzt

Sonic fighting a giant crab mech... this is more of an example of how Sonic uses his body as a weapon, and the inherit durability that comes with a feat like this:

https://imgur.com/a/So5m9q0

Blaze blows up a dropship with Sonic. Sonic falls to the ground after the explosion, is dazed for a few seconds before getting back up:

https://imgur.com/a/Sza89wY

Takes a direct ELECTRIC attack (Luminaire is Thunder,right?) from SUPER NEO METAL SONIC, and continues fighting after this:
https://imgur.com/LQgs4fs

Kamekguy posted...

It is hard for me to imagine a better thought than a paranoid-for-his-life DK wildly spinning RAY around as a shield while it shoots a death laser everywhere, destroying everything.

I don't have many further thoughts at the moment, a lot to consider, but I think it's quite funny.

now it is difficult for me to imagine anything else

i regret to inform you ganon but sonic is dead

you don't SEEM regretful

Yeah, I don't think Sonic matters at all. Sell me on why Ray doesn't level the Capitol Building right away.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/0/5/AAAelnAAETyF.jpg

you caught me, i take extreme joy in informing you sonic is deceased

Kamekguy posted...

This is probably what I'd base Sonic durability respect on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW33q8YW-jI

Which is "good that he lived... but he passes out from this".

So y'know, extrapolate from there how Tails tries to power of friendship Sonic to consciousness or whatever.

Oh wait tails is here? That actually does matter for this I think lol

I think what that means is Tails is gonna revive RAY with the power of friendship if it gets killed

Thinking that DK runs away until he gets attacked and realizes the only way to preserve his life...is to KILL

Then he mops the floor with the other team

Tails being there is actually a good point. After all, Sonic pulls out ALL the stops when his friends are in danger. Even if he's within a sliver of life, seeing Tails would give him the strength of will to pull himself back up (of course, he doesnt NEED to do that because he can survive this attack anyway)

Mewtwo59 posted...

Yeah, I don't think Sonic matters at all. Sell me on why Ray doesn't level the Capitol Building right away.

i feel like an american military robot would be doing itself a disservice by doing that

KamikazePotato posted...

Thinking that DK runs away until he gets attacked and realizes the only way to preserve his life...is to KILL

Then he mops the floor with the other team

the problem is he's probably getting hurt by RAY more than anyone on my team as far as reasons for him to be scared go

AriaOfBolo posted...

I think what that means is Tails is gonna revive RAY with the power of friendship if it gets killed

Well yeah theres the "sonic literally might will himself back to life to impress tails angle"

Ditto for the ray

And if all else fails and somehow Mewtwo and Sonic are both dead....tails can fly and scout well. He does those things literally all the time for sonic.

... damn I forgot Tails has healing.

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Medi_Bot

Actually hilariously, this gives passive regen to HP... and PP. Like. Tails is one of the few guys who can actively restock Mewtwo's Recover, if Mewtwo lives.

On the other hand, I interpret 'Fulminating Belmont' as Trevor just. Absorbing all of the light and becoming a strong holy boy, like a full dragon install but it's all god power. And I respect that a whole bunch if he's just whipping out holy lightning bolts, like THAT. That I think does some damn good damage to RAY.

Remember, this is a Tails who has fought through the Eggman War, he's not just a little kid. He knows battle tactics like scouting and his intellect makes him a great tactician.

If Tails is just flying around scouting ahead, Goku just shoots him down. VATS is an insane targetting system so Tails is getting plucked right out of the air. It's not like my team will just wait next to Aigis while she's occupied for 30 seconds - they'll secure the area and try to get a vantage point on the team from wherever they can (aka just outside because they're at the entrance).

Tails is FAST in the air, he won't be just be shot down. Especially after fighting through things like the Eggman War, he knows how to scout intelligently

Chaeix posted...

i feel like an american military robot would be doing itself a disservice by doing that

I think this one is independent. I know Sundowner's group was working for Armstrong, but they weren't an American based group.

One silly thing I thought of is Mewtwo being psychic type means he takes half damage from fighting moves, which suplex has to be. So he'd be less stunned by it than usual, could get to teleporting faster.

Eunie is, I'm given to believe, super good against RAY so the 'what happens if it levels the building' thing isn't as much of an issue as it seems. As I recall, Xenoblade characters fight giant robots on the regular? And JC's mentioned that Eunie has a limitlessly stacking damage buff as long as she doesn't miss shots, which she won't against RAY. A 500%+ Sacred Ray shot is going to make it deeply unhappy, regen or no regen.

...This said, I had honestly forgotten Tails had healing. HMMMMM. I don't think Mewtwo lives at all (we have video examples of what happens when a Mewtwo is decked and it's at least a few seconds of stun, which it cannot afford against TLW just popping a tribeam repeater and ventilating it), but Sonic probably survives and gets back to fighting shape and that plugs a lot of holes in Team Kong's composition. We're talking about a team of gunners. Against Sonic. That's a very, very bad matchup right there. Can Bowser, Tails, RAY, DK and Sonic eke it out against Eunie, Crono, Trevor, Sypha, Aigis and TLW? I'm not sure. It's a very tricky matchup.

Tails' healing at a glance appears to require him to physically get up close and deploy a (destructible) medi-bot so I really don't think his healing is much of a factor here.

Chaeix posted...

Tails' healing at a glance appears to require him to physically get up close and deploy a (destructible) medi-bot so I really don't think his healing is much of a factor here.

Sir, Sonic starts with his team

I think it is very much a factor for healing Sonic

What happens afterward isn't terribly relevant (though any extra healing goes a long way, obv). Just Sonic being, like, actually capable of fighting is the key thing is all.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Sir, Sonic starts with his team

I think it is very much a factor for healing Sonic

What happens afterward isn't terribly relevant (though any extra healing goes a long way, obv). Just Sonic being, like, actually capable of fighting is the key thing is all.

Ah I thought you meant for the rest of the battle.

Also a point against Eunie surviving the Giant Punch: Fullmetal Jaguar is specifically a DPS class that's made of paper because it's meant to dodge during animations, stay away with range, and reduce aggro, so being forced to eat a 250% bigger/stronger/faster DK punch without any evading or oroboros is... rough.

Oh no Eunie is 100% dead to start

But Crono and Aigis can revive people so she won't stay dead after, however things go with Mewtwo.

Team Sonic

SirChris posted...

Got a headache so I will be brief

Sonic dead
Eunie dead
Mewtwo next to enemy team not great since mewtwo has shown the ability to asap fly out of danger at very high speeds. I don't think they can nuke him before he counter attacks and bounces. He can at least teleport short range to get meaningful distance
Dk with metal gear Kong shield is a problem that I don't think has an answer.
Bowser helps

Change my mind etc

I will point out that Trevor has Time Stop and can wail on Mewtwo, and Sypha can also just magically freeze Mewtwo in place. Pokemon can't use Teleport when they're frozen, and Sypha is more likely than not to just freeze him entirely - see: https://youtu.be/L_9JyGfPlS8?t=2

And was pointed out in chat, though not relevant to your interp, but Trevor with Time Stop is particularly effective against Sonic if you view Sonic as surviving.

Chaeix posted...

I will point out that Trevor has Time Stop and can wail on Mewtwo, and Sypha can also just magically freeze Mewtwo in place. Pokemon can't use Teleport when they're frozen, and Sypha is more likely than not to just freeze him entirely - see: https://youtu.be/L_9JyGfPlS8?t=2

And was pointed out in chat, though not relevant to your interp, but Trevor with Time Stop is particularly effective against Sonic if you view Sonic as surviving.

assuming all of this is true, who is boxing the kongs iyo?

KJH posted...

Also a point against Eunie surviving the Giant Punch: Fullmetal Jaguar is specifically a DPS class that's made of paper because it's meant to dodge during animations, stay away with range, and reduce aggro, so being forced to eat a 250% bigger/stronger/faster DK punch without any evading or oroboros is... rough.

What Kanz said - Eunie's totally dead but gets revived.

kind of interested how others feel about revives in real time settings like this, now that we're on about it.

is a revive always a revive? if the corpse is badly mangled does that matter? missing a head? some games have it so if you are petrified and shattered your sol for example.

things like general damage or even a clean stab through the heart/bleeding out seem obviously fine, but I am unsure the extent I respect KOs in "cut scenes" for something like, say, an explosion.

SirChris posted...

assuming all of this is true, who is boxing the kongs iyo?

TLW with the Fat Man (mini nukes!) and other crazy strong weapons like a gatling laser and v strong laser rifle (with VATS, he'll be able to identify and hit weak points as well), Aigis with Freidyne, Trevor with Grand Cross, Eunie with defense-piercing and damage buffing and her big ouroboros laser, etc.