Board 8 > Tekken Mafia Topic 3 - Round 1... FIGHT!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wallz is towncleared by early Ulti suspicion and Hb reaching too hard to make his logic read as town logic

Not a good thread to pursue imo

Speaking of inactives, I'm curious what Isquen thinks of this situation. Does he see Ulti as crazy scum or town that blundered massively? I ask because Isquen commonly finds himself in the latter situation, so I'm curious if he sees something similar here or not.

Though I don't think Isquen has ever been this contradictory as town.

Lopen posted...

Wallz is towncleared by early Ulti suspicion and Hb reaching too hard to make his logic read as town logic

Not a good thread to pursue imo

You don't think he has it in him to lightly engage with a mate early on day 1?

Can you elaborate on what you see between hb and wallz that clears wallz? I think they're both scum.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I did respond to that, actually:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80396503/972539732

Kirby321 posted...

Speaking of inactives, I'm curious what Isquen thinks of this situation. Does he see Ulti as crazy scum or town that blundered massively? I ask because Isquen commonly finds himself in the latter situation, so I'm curious if he sees something similar here or not.

Though I don't think Isquen has ever been this contradictory as town.

Has he been contradictory? Or do you think he wont be?
If its the latter meaning, why give him a heads up on how to act?

Peace___Frog posted...

Can you elaborate on what you see between hb and wallz that clears wallz? I think they're both scum.

Topic 1, post 376 to me makes Wallz look super super good.

Hbthebattle posted...

Yeah see, this is the part I want to dispute. There's a clear difference here - Ulti before was bringing a lot of attention to his role, but this time it's been mostly about his flavor. That is unique for someone like Ulti who loves claiming he has an ultra-super-special role all the time.

This to me reads as Hb reading between the lines of what wallz was saying because he knew Ulti was scum and he knew Wallz was town. Kind of a cart before the horse thing-- he knew I was wrong and was eager to flaunt it, but in extending to that level to explain why I was wrong he connected dots he shouldn't have been able to.

To elaborate

Nothing Wallz said then or since implied there was any sort of flavor/role dichotomy in his read.

All Wallz said is "ulti is playing weird he's not drawing attention to himself" which is imo completely incorrect. He cfwr Ulti if anything.

Lopen posted...

To elaborate

Nothing Wallz said then or since implied there was any sort of flavor/role dichotomy in his read.

All Wallz said is "ulti is playing weird he's not drawing attention to himself" which is imo completely incorrect. He cfwr Ulti if anything.

See I wondered if this meant that Wallz might know more about how Ulti wanted to play as opposed to how Ulti actually played

htaeD posted...

Has he been contradictory? Or do you think he wont be?
If its the latter meaning, why give him a heads up on how to act?

"Contradictory" referring to Ulti. Peaf put it together nicely:

Peace___Frog posted...

To elaborate, what I'm getting at is that Ulti complained last topic about how he's only being lynched for activity and b8 is letting inactives coast on by.
And now he's saying that the votes right now don't matter because we're going to end up specialing some random afk at the end of the day anyway?

It doesn't track. Both arguments separately make sense in their situations, but if he was actually concerned enough about being lynched that he claimed, and he obviously felt pressure... why the sudden indifference afterwards?

Also doesn't make sense why Ulti didn't immediately point out that Lea's flavor seemingly contradicted his own.

But nonetheless, I just want Isquen's opinion on record because 1) he's said jack shit this game, or at least I can't remember anything he's said beside that flow chart and 2) Ulti's flip + Isquen's comments should give us valuable information.

Though I have to admit I'm not quite sure I follow what you're asking

Lopen posted...

To elaborate

Nothing Wallz said then or since implied there was any sort of flavor/role dichotomy in his read.

All Wallz said is "ulti is playing weird he's not drawing attention to himself" which is imo completely incorrect. He cfwr Ulti if anything.

This feels like you completing sentences for wallz to see him in the best light, since he's in your town pile.

Peace___Frog posted...

This feels like you completing sentences for wallz to see him in the best light, since he's in your town pile.

He is in my town pile BECAUSE of the interaction with hb

Pretty much entirely

htaeD posted...

See I wondered if this meant that Wallz might know more about how Ulti wanted to play as opposed to how Ulti actually played

Ulti failed miserably with how he wanted to play if he did that though

I'm tired and taking a short catchup break. Should be back in to see the end of day.

Watching the discourse when I can, and what I've been able to skim, Ulti is being inconsistent- which is itself consistent. Lopen's not in full paranoia mode, which is usually a town showing, but he also has no pressure put on him. And rightfully so. Kirby, I dont know how I feel about YOU, of all people, saying I find myself as "blundering massively" since I havent thrown an endgame since... FFXIV?

Lea is not to be discounted either. I find her claim dubious considering her opening post directed at IGCD. Plum, I'm not even touching because he always looks awful to me.

Currently I wanna throw my vote back on Peaf but I dont know where that'll go because he has laid low while maintaining just enough activity to not cause any ripples. Havent had the time nor energy to isolate other posters, really. Looking forward to the weekend and some rest.

Like if your theory is "Wallz is scum because Ulti had shared with scum chat that he was going to lay low" perhaps spamming I Am The King youtubes is the wrong way to go about it? I do give Ulti more credit than that to follow through with a gameplan.

Anyway back to work. 2 1/2 hours to go...

Lopen posted...

Ulti failed miserably with how he wanted to play if he did that though

Yeah thats true

Isquen seems to be circling around coming to an actual stance is all I gathered from that
Granted he's working, but still

Lea posted...

I like that Plum is saying he doesn't believe it's impossible to catch scum day one and Lopen is saying it's possible to catch the entire scum team day one. It's not really an alignment observation I just find it a funny philosophy difference.

Hey Corrik caught almost an entire team once

My theory is that wallz is scum because he is creating fake reads without much behind them.

In paper Mario didn't i call 3 people on the scum team with my EOD proposal? Not the whole team, but for how bad i was that game i would have done significantly better if i just trusted my d1 reads.

Peace___Frog posted...

My theory is that wallz is scum because he is creating fake reads without much behind them.

My theory is his reads are legitimate but he's not articulating them well and is being pressured by people to give them.

I honestly haven't had a problem with Wallz's stuff since the initial Ulti read. It hasn't been committal but it's day 1 who can be committal.

Isquen posted...

Kirby, I dont know how I feel about YOU, of all people, saying I find myself as "blundering massively" since I havent thrown an endgame since... FFXIV?

I'm talking about every time you've gotten mislynched. I don't think I'm crazy to say that you tend to get yourself mislynched more often than not, so I was coming from that angle of "Do you think this is scum Ulti making genuine mistakes or is it town Ulti who just happened to make himself look bad, given that you've been on that end of the sword as town numerous times?"

I mean no offense. You just have a tendency to get lynched every game regardless of alignment, which even your flowchart pokes fun at.

I thought C was a passing grade but apparently Lea wants me lynched. If you want people to talk about me Im surprised you didnt ask Peaf sooner lol

Peaf I lean town on based on the tone of his posts and conviction behind his vote, wrong though it may be. It feels genuine and I also appreciate his respect for me as a player of the game. His suspicion of me is at least partially fueled by my poor job of articulating thoughts on Ulti and my own sarcasm which went over his head, but Ive said my peace (no pun intended).

As for the recent Ulti and Lea stuff, I still think Ulti is scum but how Lea responded came across a little suspicious to me as well. I dont know Lea well yet but Id like to think town Lea would brush it off with more humor at ultis expense. She was very serious. I dont remember who got interested in the whole sbell all 3 scum comment but I am interested to go back and see if those same people chimed in here.

Lopen I think is town but while its nice for someone to straight up townclear me I think thats unearned at this point.

I mean there's a chance you're not towncleared to me if hb flips town I guess

Feel really good about him being scum though, thus I have no choice but to clear you.

My son is going to be home soon so I don't have a ton of time before the end of the day.

This feels like a lynch where if ulti is town most of the scum are probably staying away from it.

I am trying to distance my disdain of lopen's arrogance with my read of Lopen himself. Does scum lopen act so brashly trying to kill town? Does scum Lopen bus ulti like this?

I feel like I need to review this incident that is causing people to vote ulti again

Lopen has a habit of webbing things together in a way that is difficult for others to see.

I felt inclined to unvote you for the pun alone, but the rest of the post is good too. You're right, you pass.
##Unvote

wallmasterz posted...

I dont remember who got interested in the whole sbell all 3 scum comment but I am interested to go back and see if those same people chimed in here.

This was Ulti, sbell, Death, and me i think. My view point here is that if either sbell or Ulti flip scum then it's worth considering. Until that happens idgaf about the number.

masterplum posted...

Does scum lopen act so brashly trying to kill town?

Yes, or at least he did with kingmaker iirc

So if I am reading this right. Everyone is on ulti because

1. He said he didn't know how to play jailkeep when he was the role before and allegedly died early
2. Didn't act in a way consistent with being a jailkeep
3. Something about character select flavor meta

This doesn't seem wildly different from all the things he did in paper mario as town.

I give Ulti somewhere between a 25-33% chance of being scum

Lot more to it plum. Read the day if you're town. Also if you're town "watch and learn" as we fell scum without waiting for a scan.

masterplum posted...

So if I am reading this right. Everyone is on ulti because

1. He said he didn't know how to play jailkeep when he was the role before and allegedly died early
2. Didn't act in a way consistent with being a jailkeep
3. Something about character select flavor meta

This doesn't seem wildly different from all the things he did in paper mario as town.

I give Ulti somewhere between a 25-33% chance of being scum

also refused to address accusations regarding his activity and instead played victim.

The character select flavor meta is also something Ulti tried to use against others (Lea in this instance)

masterplum posted...

Does scum Lopen bus ulti like this?

he certainly doesn't need to saddle up with me to do it, if that's the case.

And plum knows that

Every time I start thinking he might be town he opens his mouth

Plum, out of curiosity, if you had to vote for someone who does not meet your d1 criteria (voted for you or cast suspicion not in good faith from your perspective) who would you vote for? Assuming no lynch wasnt an option and you had to vote? I know you feel strongly about the philosophy you shared earlier but Im still interested in hearing thoughts from you. Sorry if you already stated or alluded to this, I could probably benefit from a re-read that just isnt going to happen before eod due to time constraints.

to be fair lopen I haven't put it completely out of mind that I could be disillusioned by you and your ability to better speak my own thoughts.

But we don't worry about that for at least 2 more game days (depending on flips that is)

I will be checking in as much as possible between now and deadline, but I may be a bit slow responding.

##Vote: Ulti

It's ok bud we will have a pile of dead scum by then

At least one of us will likely be dead as well

Reiterating I hate talking about activity but the police decided to shoot someone on the freeway here which closed the freeway and that is making my commute to work look like it will be...possibly infinite is the best way to describe it.

wallmasterz posted...

Plum, out of curiosity, if you had to vote for someone who does not meet your d1 criteria (voted for you or cast suspicion not in good faith from your perspective) who would you vote for? Assuming no lynch wasnt an option and you had to vote? I know you feel strongly about the philosophy you shared earlier but Im still interested in hearing thoughts from you. Sorry if you already stated or alluded to this, I could probably benefit from a re-read that just isnt going to happen before eod due to time constraints.

Death seemed like he was faking asking questions about me

Hmmmmm. Well I havent been struck by any clear town tells yet in Ulti's responses to all these votes. I dont feel his pushing back has been all that strong.

But claiming that Lea is lying about her flavor seems like a bad scum strat as well. Do we think Ulti feels he can push Lea's lynch in his universe in that moment? Maybe he thought jailkeeper was strong enough to support himself, but then why act all game prior that claiming jailkeeper is going to get himself mislynched? That aspect feels more like town forced into a situation he didnt plan for.

Ulti, question for you. Is there any way you and Lea and you can both be town or is it absolutely one of you in a contrdiction?

PunishedBen posted...

But claiming that Lea is lying about her flavor seems like a bad scum strat as well. Do we think Ulti feels he can push Lea's lynch in his universe in that moment?

No

Which is why I think Lea is scum too btw. It feels like a scripted fall to make Lea look good.

Which is only done if Plum/Ulti is scum/scum.

Lopen posted...

No

Which is why I think Lea is scum too btw. It feels like a scripted fall to make Lea look good.

Which is only done if Plum/Ulti is scum/scum.

Just checking here, nobody actually is buying this right

masterplum posted...

Just checking here, nobody actually is buying this right

you are for another day.

Today we kill ulti.

Also I'm aware that we don't need a lot of convincing but King makes very little sense to be a jailkeeper. It's clearly a claim that doesn't fit the flavor done blatantly to try and draw out a doctor counterclaim.

Luckily we're smart people.