| Topic List | |
|---|---|
|
Zikten 05/11/23 5:02:16 PM #1: |
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/11/us/jordan-neely-new-york-subway-death-daniel-penny He is expected to turn himself in tomorrow morning ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HelloMave 05/11/23 5:06:46 PM #2: |
good, I doubt he will get hard time and NY just arrested him to make sure no protests happen..honestly, as someone who rides public transit and has seen a fair share of craziness..I can kinda agree on what he did..but he held on too long on that choke hold. At the same time, this country is severely failing citizens who need mental health and drug rehab..even homelessness. I know these are not only US issues, but the fact that it is happening in the richest country is eye opening. --- Of course I can't sleep, I'm too busy chasing my dreams in real life. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Cheater87 05/11/23 5:08:48 PM #3: |
Oh my, I wonder how the trial will be? --- You're finally awake, welcome to the real world! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
DarthAragorn 05/11/23 5:14:17 PM #4: |
HelloMave posted... good, I doubt he will get hard time and NY just arrested him to make sure no protests happen..honestly, as someone who rides public transit and has seen a fair share of craziness..I can kinda agree on what he did..but he held on too long on that choke hold.Fuck that shit Dude murdered a guy, he deserves a long sentence --- Asus ROG Strix Z790-E | Core i9-13900k | 64GB DDR5-6000 | RTX 4090 24GB Dell AW3423DW QD-OLED - 1440p Ultrawide, 175hz, GSync ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
UnholyMudcrab 05/11/23 5:18:02 PM #5: |
HelloMave posted... craziness..I can kinda agree on what he didHe murdered a man for the crime of having a bad day. --- http://i.imgur.com/VeNBg.gif http://i.imgur.com/gd5jC8q.gif http://i.imgur.com/PKIy7.gif http://i.imgur.com/3p29JqP.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
whateveroh 05/11/23 5:33:35 PM #6: |
How many of you live in big cities with mass transit that you use everyday? --- With great power comes great Balenciaga. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Zikten 05/11/23 5:34:58 PM #7: |
whateveroh posted... How many of you live in big cities with mass transit that you use everyday?There is no way to rationalize murdering a homeless man. Just cause you get annoyed by people on the subway everyday doesn't make murder legal ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Sexypwnstar 05/11/23 5:35:30 PM #8: |
Never a good sight when two people with mental health issues go at each other. --- http://i.imgur.com/Su4g5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/21DiJ.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
A_Good_Boy 05/11/23 5:36:49 PM #9: |
whateveroh posted... How many of you live in big cities with mass transit that you use everyday?I look forward to seeing you lose this account for attempting to justify choking homeless people to death. --- Who is? I am! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Tmaster148 05/11/23 5:36:52 PM #10: |
HelloMave posted... good, I doubt he will get hard time and NY just arrested him to make sure no protests happen..honestly, as someone who rides public transit and has seen a fair share of craziness..I can kinda agree on what he did..but he held on too long on that choke hold. The guy on the subway wasn't doing anything besides being an annoyance. Certainly didn't justify assault let along being murdered. --- http://i.imgur.com/BBcZDLJ.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
goatthief 05/11/23 5:36:53 PM #11: |
whateveroh posted... How many of you live in big cities with mass transit that you use everyday? *raises hand* --- A Canadian Classic ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
hockeybub89 05/11/23 5:37:41 PM #12: |
whateveroh posted... How many of you live in big cities with mass transit that you use everyday?Are you arguing that it would push anyone to murder? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png he/him/they/them ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
| #13 | Post #13 was unavailable or deleted. |
|
whateveroh 05/11/23 5:41:20 PM #14: |
Zikten posted... There is no way to rationalize murdering a homeless man. Just cause you get annoyed by people on the subway everyday doesn't make murder legal I never said it did, did I? I was asking how many people have experience in dealing with insanity on public transit in a big city. --- With great power comes great Balenciaga. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
refmon 05/11/23 5:41:35 PM #15: |
HelloMave posted... as someone who rides public transit and has seen a fair share of craziness..I can kinda agree on what he did..but he held on too long on that choke hold. --- If you read this signature, then that meant that I had control of what you read for 5 SECONDS!! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Murphiroth 05/11/23 5:43:43 PM #16: |
whateveroh posted... I never said it did, did I? Just because you're too much of a coward to say it doesn't mean we can't read between the lines my dude. You're incapable of being subtle, after all. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
whateveroh 05/11/23 5:44:12 PM #17: |
hockeybub89 posted... Are you arguing that it would push anyone to murder? It pushes people to violence. I've seen fight break out countless times. I'm not saying anyone should've been murdered, but if you take public transit in a big city you know what it's like. --- With great power comes great Balenciaga. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
badjay 05/11/23 5:48:41 PM #18: |
https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/125-15.pdf Under our law, a person is guilty of Manslaughter in the Second Degree when that person recklessly causes the death of another person. The following term used in that definition has a special meaning:
manslaughter-in-the-first-degree.html] website (I don't want to bust my ass navigating NY penal code to find the specifics). The crime of manslaughter is distinguishable from murder in that manslaughter is defined as causing someone's death without the intent to do so while murder requires intent. Manslaughter cases involve recklessness, negligence, or heat of passion. Seems fair, trying to prove intent is always difficult. As much as people want to call it murder because he's a marine and knows that a choke for that long could kill someone that doesn't say shit for intent. Proving 2nd degree manslaughter is much simpler and shut case than trying for murder and the guy gets away. BTW if people are curious wtf is 1st degree manslaughter if 2nd degree seems to cover all cases? https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/125-20%282%29.pdf 1st degree basically appears to be a crime of passion. Those cases where someone "sees red" and they kill someone. The intent is there but emotions are so high that people look past it and don't call it murder. At least that's my shitty summary. --- [05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
ScazarMeltex 05/11/23 5:51:14 PM #19: |
HelloMave posted... good, I doubt he will get hard time and NY just arrested him to make sure no protests happen..honestly, as someone who rides public transit and has seen a fair share of craziness..I can kinda agree on what he did..but he held on too long on that choke hold.You don't hold that choke past the point where the guy passes out. Doing so is actively trying to kill them. --- Furthermore, The GOP is a Fascist Organization and must be destroyed ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Thud 05/11/23 5:51:16 PM #20: |
whateveroh posted... I never said it did, did I? Stfu, seriously. I'm a social worker so I've had the mentally ill scream at, threaten, spit at, swing at me etc etc etc and never once wanted to choke the life out of them. If we can do it, you can sit in your seat and stfu and ignore the person in crisis or put on your big girl panties and offer to hear/help them. A tantrum is never a justification for homicide --- Happy birthday to the GROUND! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
YugiNoob 05/11/23 5:51:21 PM #21: |
whateveroh posted... I never said it did, did I?When I was on the bus with my former boss (an older woman with mobility issues) I saw someone just sucker punch her for no reason. That wasnt the only incident of someone with mental illness Ive seen on the bus, but it was the only one that involved hardcore violence like that. Others were just some shoving/grabbing or screaming --- ( ^_^)/\(^_^ ) Maya High-Five! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
NeoShadowhen 05/11/23 5:53:05 PM #22: |
What Reddit post from before are you referring to? ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Priere 05/11/23 5:54:04 PM #23: |
A lot of crazy shit happens on public transit. I could never ride it again. It seems there is almost no punishment for a lot of it either. There was one story I read a few days ago about some guy arrested like 41 times for crimes on the subway, including multiple batteries and cracking an old ladys head open, and they just kept letting him go. --- https://imgur.com/iQep35u https://i.imgur.com/PmX8smn.gif https://i.imgur.com/mwTy0iF.gif https://i.imgur.com/FCER80e.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
badjay 05/11/23 5:54:13 PM #24: |
Woah...I feel like I'm crazy. 1st degree murder is basically reserved for people who kill cops while trying to kill their intended target. 2nd degree is reserved for those who do kill their target as they intended. Am I crazy here? https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/125.27/Capital-Crimes/125-27%281%29%28a%29%28iii%29.pdf (2nd degree murder) https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/125.27/Capital-Crimes/125-27%281%29%28a%29%28iii%29.pdf (1st degree murder) --- [05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Jagr_68 05/11/23 5:55:05 PM #25: |
Post 6 is definitely not suspension-worthy. --- New York Rangers [2004-2008] https://media.giphy.com/media/WvQHBYW0q4TuxdAg61/giphy.gif https://psnprofiles.com/Jaromiroquai68 ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
NeoShadowhen 05/11/23 5:56:18 PM #26: |
Is there any word on if the other two will be charged also? ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
badjay 05/11/23 5:58:36 PM #27: |
NeoShadowhen posted... What Reddit post from before are you referring to?https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1654329916299821056 Nevermind, looking over it it seems it isn't the actual person who killed Neely, just a perspective of someone who had seen Neely and thought he was unhinged. I believe the original tweet I had read implied it was him but its...age blocked? I found another referencing the reddit thread. I deleted the speculation of the reddit thread being him in my older post. --- [05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
whateveroh 05/11/23 6:00:29 PM #28: |
YugiNoob posted... When I was on the bus with my former boss (an older woman with mobility issues) I saw someone just sucker punch her for no reason. That wasnt the only incident of someone with mental illness Ive seen on the bus, but it was the only one that involved hardcore violence like that. Others were just some shoving/grabbing or screaming Most recently there was a crackhead who did that heroin lean thing close to the tracks and he fell on the tracks. They turn off the power when that happens and it took an hour to resolve the whole thing and get the trains running again. There was another time where this dude was sitting there screaming at himself, then he suddenly gets up and starts kicking out the window. The train was stopped for 25 minutes for the cops to come, so the guy pulled the emergency handle to open the doors and jumped on the tracks and ran off. I'm just saying that in these instances tensions can be pretty high. --- With great power comes great Balenciaga. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
NeoShadowhen 05/11/23 6:01:32 PM #29: |
badjay posted... https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1654329916299821056 Ok, that makes sense. I wasnt really seeing how it would play into the trial seeing as its all about if the marines response was justified. Nobody is claiming that the victim wasnt a dangerous person. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
| #30 | Post #30 was unavailable or deleted. |
| #31 | Post #31 was unavailable or deleted. |
|
badjay 05/11/23 6:11:41 PM #32: |
NeoShadowhen posted... Yeah, I was going along the belief that if the dude was cataloging his distaste for this specific person on reddit, that it may be possible to prove intent. But that's a biiiiiiig reach for a lawyer to make when you can go for a clean and cut case of 2nd manslaughter. Of course this all hinged on the reddit thread OP being him, it isn't. People are going to call this murder over and over, but nobody will be able to prove that he intended to kill the guy outside of he's a marine, he should know chokeholds can kill people, he should know extended choke holds kill people, and he held the choke for too long and did it knowingly. All of that together is so hard to prove. --- [05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
badjay 05/11/23 6:30:50 PM #33: |
[LFAQs-redacted-quote] People be people, I mean have you read the comments in this thread as well? Notice how many of them are asking how often do you take NYC transit? I'm not even a local of NYC but I've been on the trains several times and I've had an incident where I remember the guy was walking around screaming saying "you bitch!" and "I'm going to get you!" and other charged language. You're afraid in the moment, yeah you feel bad, but you're hoping they're not violent. I'm not saying I feared for my life, but you are certainly in an elevated sense of tension and dread in a way. I wouldn't be surprised if NYC people had multiple incidences similar to this. In Boston I've had a couple like that. Usually before I'm on the train though, not actually on the train. It just feels very awkward and scary honestly. Someone walking around screaming into an invisible cell phone they're holding up to their head, looking around making sure to meet everyone in the eye and saying what are you looking at. That's spooky man. I do feel bad for them and wish they can get help, but I'm just a person trying to get to school (back then in Boston) and trying to get to the airport (In NYC). I'm not here to do anything else. I'm not wishing death on anyone, but try to ask for compassion of a jury of new york city citizens of which 25-50% of the population takes the subway. I'm sure everyone had ONE incident where they felt afraid for themselves again not to the point of killing someone. They may not have opted to kill someone over it, but they may have an understanding and be somewhat sympathetic to the marine (especially because he's a marine). So with a jury comprised of a quarter or half of nyc riders (assuming they compose a jury of SPECIFICALLY NYC people), you'll have a tough time convincing those people who felt threatened at one point that this person wasn't acting in a threatening manner. https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus-ridership-2021 (says they have about 4 million people using it in previous years and a cursory google check of the population is 8.5 I'm rounding here) Just to reiterate, the dude didn't deserve to die, but I can totally understand where people being afraid comes from as well. No reason for people to have been violent towards him unless he started throwing punches at passengers, which according to the evidence posted so far never happened. He may have been verbally aggressive, but that doesn't mean he should've been killed. We don't go around killing protestors because of what they say now do we? --- [05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Nemu 05/11/23 6:36:22 PM #34: |
It really doesn't matter whether he was a threat or not. He was not a lasting threat that required excessive force, and the matter was completely and utterly improperly handled by someone who clearly had no fucking clue how to restrain someone. The absolute best case is that he's an idiot who thought he was doing the right thing, who now needs to face consequence for his idiocy. Though, I believe there was at least some maliciousness in his actions, even if murder was not intended. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Zikten 05/11/23 6:42:21 PM #36: |
The other men who helped hold him down need to be identified and charged too ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
ultimate_reaver 05/11/23 6:45:37 PM #37: |
guy knew he was murdering someone who stopped being a threat to him long after he kept choking him. should be in prison --- I pray god will curse the writer, as the writer has cursed the world with this beautiful, stupendous creation, terrible in its simplicity, irresistible in truth ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
deoxxys 05/11/23 6:54:24 PM #38: |
Glad this came about and it didn't fly us by. Can't have everybody who there was a tantrum getting choked out for 15 minutes. He needed to be released the second he passed out. It gives me heebiejeebies thinking about somebody slowly stealing someone's life... The slow lack of oxygen, defecating themselves --- twylite sprinkle http://tinyurl.com/jeqyas3 https://tinyurl.com/mgvx7h2 ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
mybbqrules 05/11/23 6:58:36 PM #39: |
whateveroh posted... How many of you live in big cities with mass transit that you use everyday?Doesn't matter, Savoots. You can't choke someone to death for being rowdy on the subway. Period. --- Twice impeached, INDICTED former President Donald J. Trump: STILL officially the worst president in American history. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
BlockWatcher 05/11/23 7:02:34 PM #40: |
He gets a sham trial when he should be getting a key to the city, pathetic. Leaving ny was a wise decision. I wonder if the total time neely served between his 42 arrests will be more or less than the time the man who protected the city from neely will serve. --- 1 John 2: 15-17 ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Antifar 05/11/23 7:03:54 PM #41: |
As someone who rides the subway every day: I'd be a lot more freaked out by someone being choked to death than anything I've seen these past two years. --- Please don't be weird in my topics ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
InfinityMonster 05/11/23 7:04:43 PM #42: |
deoxxys posted... Glad this came about and it didn't fly us by. Can't have everybody who there was a tantrum getting choked out for 15 minutes. He needed to be released the second he passed out. It gives me heebiejeebies thinking about somebody slowly stealing someone's life... The slow lack of oxygen, defecating themselvesThreatening to hurt people is not having a tantrum. Several 911 calls were made and one of the calls said that Neely might have a gun or knife, indicating that people did take his threat of hurting people seriously even if he didn't actually have anything. Neely said he didn't get care if he got a life sentence. That's a serious escalation indicating serious possible harm, especially after what happened last year. He definitely shouldn't have been killed for this, but 3 people reacting and all the stuff that's been said indicates this was way more than someone having a bad day. --- "It lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge" ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
UnholyMudcrab 05/11/23 7:04:56 PM #43: |
BlockWatcher posted... He gets a sham trial when he should be getting a key to the city, pathetic. Leaving ny was a wise decision.What an absolutely disgusting post --- http://i.imgur.com/VeNBg.gif http://i.imgur.com/gd5jC8q.gif http://i.imgur.com/PKIy7.gif http://i.imgur.com/3p29JqP.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
badjay 05/11/23 7:05:09 PM #44: |
Nemu posted... It really doesn't matter whether he was a threat or not. He was not a lasting threat that required excessive force, and the matter was completely and utterly improperly handled by someone who clearly had no fucking clue how to restrain someone. The absolute best case is that he's an idiot who thought he was doing the right thing, who now needs to face consequence for his idiocy. Though, I believe there was at least some maliciousness in his actions, even if murder was not intended.https://www.nbcnews.com/video/video-shows-nyc-subway- confrontation-end-with-fatal-chokehold-172512325566 I mean wouldn't you feel afraid for your life if the guy said this out loud? "I don't have food, I don't have anything to drink, I'm done... I don't care about going to jail and getting life... I'm ready to die," an African-American yelled as he stripped off his jacket and aggressively walked around the passenger car. Because that's sourced from a witness right there. If someone is screaming I don't care if I die, I don't care if I go to jail and is walking around, you REALLY wouldn't be afraid? Juan himself appears to be scared but not too scared because he had two people in front of him from this line of his witness statement translated by google (As I'd rather not fight people over what words mean in spanish). As I still had it at about four meters and other passengers in front of me, I did not move from my place. He clearly seemed like a threat verbally and possibly physically (You'd want to get away from someone who seemed imposing, wouldn't you? Who moved aggressively, right? Before you resorted to violence? In this case your distance is two other unlucky passengers who are in front of you). Again, not saying someone has to go and choke the guy out and kill them, but people were afraid. This stuff will get submitted to a jury. And try to see it from their point. Video proof shows he killed the guy, but convince a jury otherwise that he wasn't a threat. I'm sure there's many more stories from the people on the train if the police did their due diligence. Funny thing Juan Vazquez deleted the facebook post he made of his entire testimony, I imagine either to make more money off his video or to not face legal repercussions. But I do have the original posts that he edited before because I treated that shit like gospel. Somewhat less useful though since he's edited what he meant so many times. I want to say, he shouldn't have died, but you're gonna have to look at all the evidence here. Daniel Penny DID kill Neely with his chokehold. That's the main point here. But why did it even get to a lethal choke hold in the first place? Daniel thought that Neely was a sufficient enough threat to be dealt with at the moment. People are going to say he didn't deserve death, but Daniel is going to be vouching that Neely was a threat with how he was moving and his speech. Whether that will get him a lesser punishment will have to be determined by a jury that has likely experienced similar situations. 2nd Degree Manslaughter seems accurate here now the more I keep thinking about the situation. The thing that makes this ALL the more crazier is that TWO other dudes (not sure if they're related to Daniel at all friends/family/acquaintances) jumped in. So that's a whole load of can of worms to argue in that two more guys thought he was SO threatening they needed to jump in to help. Once more, not saying it was right for them to do it, but factually looking at it, two more randos (AFAIK from reading everything) jumped to help the guy choking. So SOMETHING must've happened that we don't know even from Juan's testimony. Or those guys were of the same mindset of Daniel. What needs to be apparent is that people on the train were afraid from charged language coming from another passenger, one guy took the initiative and decided to shut the situation down, and two more guys agreed with that assessment and helped. Neely being threatening or at least appearing threatening absolutely matters here. What matters more is whether that threat necessitated this lethal force. But really though that NYC train footage is gonna be a big deal, that's going to be interesting to see if it comes up in the case. Supposedly every NYC train is equipped with cameras, so it'll be a sealed and shut case once that appears. We should have audio and video of the entire incident and a jury can judge to see if what occurred needed to happen from there. All we have right now is a 3 minute video where the chokehold already happened. --- [05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
greenjeans 05/11/23 7:06:16 PM #45: |
hockeybub89 posted... Are you arguing that it would push anyone to murder?Elaine Benes came close ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
R1masher 05/11/23 7:07:57 PM #46: |
What great anecdotes itt --- R1R1R1R1R1R1 ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
DarthAragorn 05/11/23 7:09:46 PM #47: |
Man people be posting a lot of words when they could just say "yeah I'm glad the fucker died" Disgusting shit ITT --- Asus ROG Strix Z790-E | Core i9-13900k | 64GB DDR5-6000 | RTX 4090 24GB Dell AW3423DW QD-OLED - 1440p Ultrawide, 175hz, GSync ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
ultimate_reaver 05/11/23 7:13:05 PM #48: |
DarthAragorn posted... Man people be posting a lot of words when they could just say "yeah I'm glad the fucker died" people are just desperate for the ability to kill anyone who upsets them because they think they'll never end up a victim themselves --- I pray god will curse the writer, as the writer has cursed the world with this beautiful, stupendous creation, terrible in its simplicity, irresistible in truth ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
greenjeans 05/11/23 7:13:27 PM #49: |
Priere posted... A lot of crazy shit happens on public transit. I could never ride it again.I think that's the guy who was murdered ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
greenjeans 05/11/23 7:14:21 PM #50: |
BlockWatcher posted... He gets a sham trial when he should be getting a key to the city, pathetic. Leaving ny was a wise decision.Seek help please ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
YugiNoob 05/11/23 7:38:06 PM #51: |
BlockWatcher posted... He gets a sham trial when he should be getting a key to the city, pathetic. Leaving ny was a wise decision.https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/0/9/AAPV5JAAEbhd.jpg --- ( ^_^)/\(^_^ ) Maya High-Five! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
| Topic List |