Current Events > Landlord tells tenants not to display Pride Month.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://news.wosu.org/politics-government/2023-06-09/landlord-asks-westerville-businesses-not-to-display-lgbtq-signage-citing-catholic-beliefs

Fuck landlords.

Lmao I read the link.

Get fucked, land lord.

Hopefully that landlord gets heavily fined like those Christian bakeries that discriminated against gay couples

Can they legal stop them?

Gritty posted...

Can they legal stop them?

The lease signed prohibits displaying any signage without landlord permission, so maybe.

Even asking that should strip him of the property and give it to them...but with him stiill paying property taxes on it.

The lease his business is under prohibits tenants from adding signage to their windows without Llewellyn's permission regardless of beliefs.

Hmm... I wonder if this legal piece of information will hold up in court should he press charges for 'breach of contract'.

I doubt any further action will take place and hope both parties solve this without any bad blood.

Yes, the landlord can do this. No, there is nothing the tenants can do to stop it.

As much as I am annoyed by catholicism and religious fanatics in general, and as much as I support Pride month (went to a pride parade yesterday in fact), he should be allowed to do this.

It's his property that he is leasing out for commercial use under terms that allow for this. They signed a contract stating that they won't put up signage without the landlord's permission.

Same way a landlord in a similar situation could stop someone from putting up MAGA signs on their properties.

Well, organized religion is in direct conflict with my beliefs. I ask you to please stop pestering me with this Jesus bullshit.

they should do it anyway and sue his ass

Is it just signage in the windows the contract prohibits? Could they put up signs elsewhere?

Nordini posted...

As much as I am annoyed by catholicism and religious fanatics in general, and as much as I support Pride month (went to a pride parade yesterday in fact), he should be allowed to do this.

No.

darkmaian23 posted...

No.

Yeah that's a weird logic. Very "libertarian".

darkmaian23 posted...

No.

Excellent reasoning. Please elaborate.

As long as he doesn't go after straight white Anglo Saxon protestant males I don't really see the problem.

*reads article that he's catholic*

Fuck!

Unfortunately, his property his rules

He paid his hard earned money for the property so he will always have a say what goes on in it

Tenants can always move out if they don't like it

I'm not displaying a pride flag, I'm displaying a flag celebrating God's promise after the flood.

mystic_belmont posted...

I'm not displaying a pride flag, I'm displaying a flag celebrating God's promise after the flood.

Apocalypse?

ReDaZnDraGoN97 posted...

Unfortunately, his property his rules

Unless there is a clause in the contract signed, the landlord has no grounds.

Even so, the process is lengthy and costly.

Nordini posted...

As much as I am annoyed by catholicism and religious fanatics in general, and as much as I support Pride month (went to a pride parade yesterday in fact), he should be allowed to do this.

ReDaZnDraGoN97 posted...

Unfortunately, his property his rules

Alts are rarer these days, but are you two the same person?

ReDaZnDraGoN97 posted...

Unfortunately, his property his rules

He paid his hard earned money for the property so he will always have a say what goes on in it

Tenants can always move out if they don't like it

How do you know the money was hard earned? He's a landlord, his money is highly likely to not be hard earned.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Hopefully that landlord gets heavily fined like those Christian bakeries that discriminated against gay couples

Um yeah didn't they win that case?

I dunno. I consider "Don't put signs in the window" as bad as the landlord that tried to say "no cooking with spices!"

Obviously if you're renting you don't own the property, so there needs to be limits (like painting or otherwise altering the property). But putting a sign in a window? I don't think a landlord should have any say over that.

Morgan said the lease his business is under prohibits tenants from adding signage to their windows without Llewellyn's permission regardless of beliefs. Llewellyn's letter was written as a request to his tenants and did not mention any punishments if tenants didn't comply.

I also find it weird as fuck that the contract is "Don't put signs in the windows with out my permission" and yet he felt it necessary to specifically say, "Hey don't put up any signs for pride month." Like, the default expectation is to not post signs, but he had to go out of his way to say "Don't post pride signs"

Avirosb posted...

Um yeah didn't they win that case?

Maybe there was multiple. Im sure there was one that was fined so heavily they shut down. Thats what needs to happen in every case including this one

darkmaian23 posted...

Alts are rarer these days, but are you two the same person?

I take personal offense to that because I have always hated the aLtErNaTiNg caps names. It triggered me in 2007 when it was trendy, and it triggers me now.

Also, alts are not rare these days lol. Spend some time on the PS5 board and you'll see that the alt culture is very alive and well. TeamSilent4Life and his string of alts run rampant.

On topic, I find it interesting that nobody can even attempt to put forth a logical argument as to why the landlord shouldn't be allowed to do this. It's because when you think it through, everybody understands that he should.

MisterPengy posted...

Obviously if you're renting you don't own the property, so there needs to be limits (like painting or otherwise altering the property).

Generally commercial renters are expected to alter the property to meet the needs of their business. A restaurant has to install a kitchen, hoods, gas lines. Retail space has to install shelving. Both often have to build and/or move internal walls. Window signs are definitely something the property owner has no stake in.

Nordini posted...

I find it interesting that nobody can even attempt to put forth a logical argument as to why the landlord shouldn't be allowed to do this

1) The tenants are renting out the space
2) Putting up signs does not cause any damage, physical or financial, to the landlord or his property

It really comes down to what limits you think a landlord should be allowed to put in place. To me, restricting signage is over stepping.

MisterPengy posted...

1) The tenants are renting out the space
2) Putting up signs does not cause any damage, physical or financial, to the landlord or his property

It really comes down to what limits you think a landlord should be allowed to put in place. To me, restricting signage is over stepping.

1) They signed a contract that states he can do this. If they didn't like this concept, they should have signed a lease with someone else.

2) Wouldn't you want the same rule in place if you were the landlord? Do you want to rent out properties to people and then have them later put up "God Hates F**s!" signs? Or "2 genders, 2 terms, Trump 2024!" signs?

If it were me, I'd want the ability to stop my tenants from putting up racist or homophobic signs on properties that I own.

Nordini posted...

1) They signed a contract that states he can do this. If they didn't like this concept, they should have signed a lease with someone else.

2) Wouldn't you want the same rule in place if you were the landlord? Do you want to rent out properties to people and then have them later put up "God Hates F**s!" signs? Or "2 genders, 2 terms, Trump 2024!" signs?

If it were me, I'd want the ability to stop my tenants from putting up racist or homophobic signs on properties that I own.

So as a landlord, you'd want the ability to tell tenants they can't pride flags while also not disallowing other signs? Because that's what happened here ..

Ruvan22 posted...

So as a landlord, you'd want the ability to tell tenants they can't pride flags while also not disallowing other signs? Because that's what happened here ..

Does the contract specifically say that they cant put up Pride flags, or are all signs up for review?

Fair if its in the contract. Dont enter into a contract if you dont agree with the terms.

If its not in the contract, the landlord can kick rocks.

MisterPengy posted...

I dunno. I consider "Don't put signs in the window" as bad as the landlord that tried to say "no cooking with spices!"

Obviously if you're renting you don't own the property, so there needs to be limits (like painting or otherwise altering the property). But putting a sign in a window? I don't think a landlord should have any say over that.

I also find it weird as fuck that the contract is "Don't put signs in the windows with out my permission" and yet he felt it necessary to specifically say, "Hey don't put up any signs for pride month." Like, the default expectation is to not post signs, but he had to go out of his way to say "Don't post pride signs"

Wondering if this is one of those things that if the tenant wanted to be petty about, they could just easily skirt around the wording, as doing something like having it just be "in the building but clearly visible" and simply not "in the window."

pnut027 posted...

Does the contract specifically say that they cant put up Pride flags, or are all signs up for review?

Seems the landlord's email specifically singled out Pride flags...

Your shitty religion doesn't limit other people's 1st amendment rights.

mystic_belmont posted...

Unless there is a clause in the contract signed, the landlord has no grounds.

Even so, the process is lengthy and costly.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/4/AAfRsCAAEkA-.jpg

Couldnt they put a sign for pride month support on the sidewalk? Pretty sure the landlord doesnt own that.

BewmHedshot posted...

Your shitty religion doesn't limit other people's 1st amendment rights.

Tbf The 1A wouldnt really apply here any more than it would apply on social media.

Ruvan22 posted...

Seems the landlord's email specifically singled out Pride flags...

Which would be covered under the contract if it states that no sign should be posted with the owners permission. And hes not giving permission. It doesnt matter what the sign represents.

The owner is shit, but it would be a lawful contract.

Ruvan22 posted...

So as a landlord, you'd want the ability to tell tenants they can't pride flags while also not disallowing other signs? Because that's what happened here ..

the contract specifies any signage must be approved by the landlord. his reasoning for this is dumb but it isn't a bad clause to have because it could allow a property owner to prevent a tenant from displaying a nazi/confederate/trump flag.

Nordini posted...

1) They signed a contract that states he can do this. If they didn't like this concept, they should have signed a lease with someone else.

2) Wouldn't you want the same rule in place if you were the landlord? Do you want to rent out properties to people and then have them later put up "God Hates F**s!" signs? Or "2 genders, 2 terms, Trump 2024!" signs?

If it were me, I'd want the ability to stop my tenants from putting up racist or homophobic signs on properties that I own.

Why are you treating the second point as a gotcha? No, I don't think I have the right to tell people I rented property to that they can't put up signs (which could easily be completely removed the second they weren't renting it) on the property because I disagree with them. And if we're letting landlords negotiate what types of signs are allowed, there's precedent that restricting signs based on homophobia (or racism or other recognized prejudices) isn't allowed.

ReDaZnDraGoN97 posted...

He paid his hard earned money for the property so he will always have a say what goes on in it

This statement is deeply sus.

Someone who owns a commercial property probably got a loan and leveraged any tenant there to pay for the building. Because that's how landlording and property management work. Because that's what they already do for their residential properties.

Landlord and "hard earned money" do not belong in the same sentence.

EDIT for this choice quote:

The landlord's properties include a boutique, a salon, a deli, a home goods store, and a financial advisory firm.

Yeah. There's no hard-earned money in here. Just money generating money, like all landlords expect.

Nordini posted...

If it were me, I'd want the ability to stop my tenants from putting up racist or homophobic signs on properties that I own.

Then the contract should state, "No signage displaying hate speech, offensive language, or politically affiliated advertising."

Because $10 says this guy never once wrote about his tenants not using Chrismas sale signage.

Heineken14 posted...

Wondering if this is one of those things that if the tenant wanted to be petty about, they could just easily skirt around the wording, as doing something like having it just be "in the building but clearly visible" and simply not "in the window."

It's not signage, it's a "decorate sun shade." The building has nothern exposure that's sun-bleaching the carpet. Or something.

DnDer posted...

Then the contract should state, "No signage displaying hate speech, offensive language, or politically affiliated advertising."

Because $10 says this guy never once wrote about his tenants not using Chrismas sale signage.

That landlord is clearly offended by the pride flag, which would cover your second condition.

pnut027 posted...

That landlord is clearly offended by the pride flag, which would cover your second condition.

You have to squint pretty hard to make "offensive language," which is a pretty commonly understood term, mean, "support, welcome, and inclusion of a marginalized community."

I don't think anyone with common sense would make your argument if it got taken to a lawyer somewhere.

DnDer posted...

You have to squint pretty hard to make "offensive language," which is a pretty commonly understood term, mean, "support, welcome, and inclusion of a marginalized community."

I don't think anyone with common sense would make your argument if it got taken to a lawyer somewhere.

Unfortunately, lawsuits arent won with common sense.

And that might be by design, else we wouldnt need lawyers to begin with.

Nyer v. Munoz-Mendoza
https://casetext.com/case/nyer-v-munoz-mendoza

An examination of the permanent injunction at bar reveals that it forbids any communication by "signs or notices of any kind," presumably as to any topic as well as in any configuration. The injunction further provides that the defendant "may post signs or notices within her apartment, except that area which is visible to public view" (emphasis supplied). Clearly a sign in the demised area which could be seen through a window by passersby would be in violation of such an injunction. Such a result cannot be justified on the basis of landlord and tenant law. It cannot survive a constitutional challenge. See Spence v. Washington,418 U.S. 405 (1974) (flag with peace symbol displayed from apartment window is constitutionally protected speech).

Sure seems to be protected free speech. Though lawyers say a lease agreement "may be enforceable, but aren't sure."

ChocoboMog123 posted...

Nyer v. Munoz-Mendoza
https://casetext.com/case/nyer-v-munoz-mendoza
Sure seems to be protected free speech. Though lawyers say a lease agreement "may be enforceable, but aren't sure."

I wonder where the line is drawn that a private entity has to protect the speech of another private entity.

pnut027 posted...

I wonder where the line is drawn that a private entity has to protect the speech of another private entity.

I'd assume to the same standard we're expected to protect the speech of others? Mostly, in ensure we (or others) make sure speech is protected up to the point of causing harm.

"Define harm."

I have no idea what that looks like legally. But there has to be some kind of legal standard for "where someone's nose begins" even when it comes to harm of a non-physical kind, like the kind a business (or, ugh, a landlord) could suffer.