Current Events > Comic stories where good guys become bad: Theyre much stronger...

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Spider-man with symbiote, Batman who laughs, punisher, Hulk when hes evil, Superman going nuts. Iron man has a bad variant. Reeds bad variants super strong...

All way stronger than their normal versions...

The opposite of RPGs where bad guys become good guys and get much weaker.

SaikyoStyle posted...

The opposite of RPGs where bad guys become good guys and get much weaker.

Thats 100% true....

Is Spider-Man stronger with the symbiote? I always figured he just wasn't holding back.

The evil versions dont hold back.

Just as strong as the good but no inhibitions.

Pretty much any magic user tbh. They're generally unbeatable unless you can find other magic user(s) that can compete or some kind of mcguffin to stop them.

And I'm not joking when I say that's almost always the case.

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Is Spider-Man stronger with the symbiote? I always figured he just wasn't holding back.

I'd assume he would be since the symbiote itself is quite strong and turned normal ass Eddie Brock into a power house. But then iirc Peter never bonded to the sybiote the way Brock did so maybe he didn't get a power boost.

Good guy: "My weakness is i wont just shoot anybody in the face...."

Bad guy:

Is Injustice Superman really stronger, or did he just not hold back against opponents he would have normally held back against?

I mean, he did lose to Alfred after all. Granted it was an Alfred powered up by a drug that makes ordinary people strong enough to go up against superheroes, but still.

Srk700 posted...

drug that makes ordinary people strong enough to go up against superheroes

Wow does that sound familiar....

I think its more that Heroes hold back alot otherwise they would just straight kill people. Take Spider-Man for example, he is actually really fucking strong and doesnt look it. He can life up to 10 tons or there about. Imagine if he just didnt hold back that strength? He would be a monster!

ToadallyAwesome posted...

I think its more that Heroes hold back alot otherwise they would just straight kill people. Take Spider-Man for example, he is actually really fucking strong and doesnt look it. He can life up to 10 tons or there about. Imagine if he just didnt hold back that strength? He would be a monster!

Yeah when Doc Ock took over his body during Superior, he straight up punched the jaw right off of somebody and was like "Holy shit, this guy was holding back against me the whole time" >_>

It's just like when the villain joins the good guys and gets much weaker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EFEm31HN_o

Really not a fan of how every comic character is quietly 'holding back' at all times until it's narratively useful not to

Reminds me of Teen Titans where whenever one of them go rogue, they solo the team by themselves.

Also with Spider-Man, one time in the comics he stopped holding back with Kingpin. He walks into prison after Kingpin fucked with his family, and he just annihilates him in the prison yard while everyone just watches

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Is Spider-Man stronger with the symbiote? I always figured he just wasn't holding back.

I don't know about strength with Venom. But I recall a story where Doc Ock was in control of Peter's body, punched a guy and was shocked that the guys jaw basically ripped off his face. He had no idea how much Peter pulled his punches when they fought.

The symbiote thing is somewhat of a retcon, one that has largely been forgotten by fans as having even been a retcon in the first place. In the original "Alien Costume Saga" story arc from 1984 to '85, it didn't boost his strength or make him evil. It just generated its own webbing, shapeshifted, and generated its own "pockets" to contain his keys and stuff, and then it puppeteered his body around in his sleep in order to feed off his adrenaline, leaving him utterly drained when he woke up.

It was the '90s cartoon that had the symbiote make Peter more aggressive (likely due to the popularity of Venom, who debuted three years after the original arc ended, in 1988; the cartoon combined the Alien Costume and Venom arcs into one, with the latter immediately following the former), and then that got backported into the comics as well as into every adaptation that followed which did an adaptation of the arc.

loafy013 posted...

I don't know about strength with Venom. But I recall a story where Doc Ock was in control of Peter's body, punched a guy and was shocked that the guys jaw basically ripped off his face. He had no idea how much Peter pulled his punches when they fought.

That moment was The Amazing Spider-Man #700, the immediate precursor to The Superior Spider-Man, and the issue where Peter dies in Otto's body. The guy in question was Mac Gargan, the Scorpion. Otto in Spidey's body, without holding back and with one punch, completely ripped off the jaw of a supervillain who wasn't merely strong or even just stronger than Spider-Man, but who was basically tailor-mutated and equipped to become a living anti-Spidey weapon. If Spider-Man's not holding back, then a normal human being with none of Scorpion's durability may as well be made of Jell-O.

SaikyoStyle posted...

The opposite of RPGs where bad guys become good guys and get much weaker.

Pretty much the case in comics too. Good Magneto is never the threat evil.Magneto is.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperpoweredEvilSide
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionDemotion

I seem to remember a story about Spiderman and Kingpin where this plot point was dealt with. Think Kingpin killed someone close to Spiderman and got arrested intentionally, and Spidey basically said fuck it I ain't a hero today and broke in and just beat the ever loving hell out of Kingpin.

Think he talked about mercy and restraint being hard to turn off after practicing it for so long but he had none on that day, basically.

Been a long time though, may not remember clearly.

R_Jackal posted...

I seem to remember a story about Spiderman and Kingpin where this plot point was dealt with. Think Kingpin killed someone close to Spiderman and got arrested intentionally, and Spidey basically said fuck it I ain't a hero today and broke in and just beat the ever loving hell out of Kingpin.

Think he talked about mercy and restraint being hard to turn off after practicing it for so long but he had none on that day, basically.

Been a long time though, may not remember clearly.

That was the aftermath of Civil War

Kingpin sent a hitman to snipe Peter in a motel window. This was after Peter had taken his mask off on live tv during Civil War. So Kingpin knew who he was

But the sniper hits Aunt May instead. She didn't die though. Peter made a deal with Mephisto to save her life. But before that he goes into prison and beats up Kingpin without even bothering to put on his costume

Srk700 posted...

Is Injustice Superman really stronger, or did he just not hold back against opponents he would have normally held back against?

I mean, he did lose to Alfred after all. Granted it was an Alfred powered up by a drug that makes ordinary people strong enough to go up against superheroes, but still.

He didn't fight back against Alfred at all in that scene. It was probably the last time he ever felt guilty about something.

R_Jackal posted...

I seem to remember a story about Spiderman and Kingpin where this plot point was dealt with. Think Kingpin killed someone close to Spiderman and got arrested intentionally, and Spidey basically said fuck it I ain't a hero today and broke in and just beat the ever loving hell out of Kingpin.

Think he talked about mercy and restraint being hard to turn off after practicing it for so long but he had none on that day, basically.

Been a long time though, may not remember clearly.

There's a panel from that story that's all over the internet. It's a picture of Peter grabbing the Kingpin, who's beaten and on his knees. Peter is grabbing him pretty violently and it looks like he has some sort of fabric the Kingpin's chest wrapped around his knuckles. The only issue that both men are shirtless, and the fabric that's wrapped around his knuckles is actually the flesh from the Kingpin's chest. Do you know how hard you have to hold on to someone so that their skin is wrapped all the way around your knuckles? No freaking clue, but that seems like something that only a person with spider powers can do to someone and that shit looks painful af.