Current Events > Sony and the FTC are getting annihilated in court during the closing arguments

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sony in shambles

Quartermuncher posted...

"A better Library than the Ps Vita or Wii U" seems to be a decent metric.

And how would Apple get that for a hardware launch?

PBusted posted...

Yes, and Playstation has been shown to be disdainful of nicher games/indies compared to Nintendo and even Xbox.

I'm so sorry Sony removes the panty shots of anime children from your games.

i am glad that sony is once again dominating microsoft this gen.

obv the switch has the best games overall but sony actually has exclusives unlike microsoft

loafy013 posted...

I'm so sorry Sony removes the panty shots of anime children from your games.

https://kotaku.com/playstation-is-hard-to-work-with-devs-say-1847210060
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/playstation-ps4-ps5-indie-games-arent-selling/
https://gamingbolt.com/sony-has-reportedly-shifted-focus-to-larger-aaa-projects-no-longer-wants-to-develop-smaller-games

Unknown5uspect posted...

But if consumers wanted to play those games then why does Sony need CoD? And if Sony needs CoD for gamers to play those games then how is that anyone but Sony's problem?
And how does any of this incur a negative for consumers?

so basically "fuck playstation users" who have played COD on playstation consoles since forever? are playstation users not consumers as well? Cause that's basically what you are saying.

vycebrand2 posted...

Got proof of that?

do you think MS has never had third-party exclusive content, timed or otherwise, on any Xbox??

xlr_big-coop posted...

but they'd rather swamp the market with movie games.

what the fuck are "movie games"? Have you never played a game made by Sony? is Returnal a "movie game"? Ratchet and Clank? Gran Turismo?

DarthAragorn posted...

The former was over a decade ago and the latter was nearly that long ago as well, while Sony is still doing it as recently as last week

MS makes deals to put third-party games on game pass day one. They also seem to do the same thing they claim sony does:

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/29/xbox-paid-for-game-pass-exclusivity-to-keep-games-off-ps-plus-say-sony-19040442/

CrimsonGear80 posted...

so basically "fuck playstation users" who have played COD on playstation consoles since forever? are playstation users not consumers as well? Cause that's basically what you are saying.

Are these people not able to move to an Xbox console, PC or stream over the cloud to play COD?

Alternatively does this logic apply to any multiplat franchise that becomes an exclusive? Final Fantasy for example? Or only if the developer in question is acquired?

CrimsonGear80 posted...

MS makes deals to put third-party games on game pass day one

So?

CrimsonGear80 posted...

They also seem to do the same thing they claim sony does:

Sony paid for games like Resident Evil 8 to not go on Game Pass at all. It wasn't on their own subscription. It was just part of a marketing arrangement.

I don't particularly care but the distinction exists.

PBusted posted...

https://kotaku.com/playstation-is-hard-to-work-with-devs-say-1847210060
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/playstation-ps4-ps5-indie-games-arent-selling/
https://gamingbolt.com/sony-has-reportedly-shifted-focus-to-larger-aaa-projects-no-longer-wants-to-develop-smaller-games

So what I'm getting from these articles is that Sony isn't spending the same amount of money on advertising these indy games as they spend on first party AAA games. Welcome to business and marketing 101. I agree with you now that a game called My Lovely Daughter didn't get the same push as God of War, or My Lovely Wife getting the same push as God of War Ragnarok.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Are these people not able to move to an Xbox console, PC or stream over the cloud to play COD?

why should they have to? seems very anti-consumer to make people buy all new consoles or sign up fro a new subscription just to play a game they have been playing on their console of choice for the last 15 years...

Punished_Blinx posted...

So?

So they pay money for exclusive third-party deals just like Sony and Nintendo do. again, like they have ALL done since they all started in the console business.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Sony paid for games like Resident Evil 8 to not go on Game Pass at all. It wasn't on their own subscription. It was just part of a marketing arrangement.

I don't particularly care but the distinction exists.

and games xbox markets wouln't go on PS+ or any other sub service. again, this just seems like more "Rules for thee..." stuff.

also what makes you think RE8 would be on game pass regardless? No other RE game in the last few years has been on game pass as far as I know.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

why should they have to? seems very anti-consumer to make people buy all new consoles or sign up fro a new subscription just to play a game they have been playing on their console of choice for the last 15 years...

Why should any console player have to move systems to play exclusive games they want to play? That's how the industry seems to currently operate no?

If an Xbox player wants to play Spider-man or Final Fantasy are they not required to buy a Playstation (or PC) to continue to do so?

CrimsonGear80 posted...

So they pay money for exclusive third-party deals just like Sony and Nintendo do. again, like they have ALL done since they all started in the console business.

A day one Game Pass deal isn't an exclusivity deal though?

Like I know they do but I don't know why you're focusing on Day One Game Pass when those games are still released on other platforms.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

and games xbox markets wouln't go on PS+ or any other sub service. again, this just seems like more "Rules for thee..." stuff.

Wasn't Fallout 76 on Playstation Plus earlier this year?

CrimsonGear80 posted...

also what makes you think RE8 would be on game pass regardless? No other RE game in the last few years has been on game pass as far as I know.

I don't have to think anything. Sony banned the option as part of their marketing arrangement with Capcom. RE7 was previously on Game Pass.

If that's the same as "while you are on our subscription service you can't go on other subscription services" is up to you to decide.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Why should any console player have to move systems to play exclusive games they want to play? That's how the industry seems to currently operate no?

If an Xbox player wants to play Spider-man or Final Fantasy are they not required to buy a Playstation to continue to do so?

there aren't many single-player games that 1 million PS users only ever play on their systems:

https://kotaku.com/call-of-duty-1-million-ps4-activision-ftc-xbox-court-1850592788

nevermind that this is about a multi-player shooter that has yearly releases since 2006, while those games you mentioned clearly do not...

Punished_Blinx posted...

A day one Game Pass deal isn't an exclusivity deal though?

they exclusively release on game pass and no other sub service

CrimsonGear80 posted...

there aren't many single-player games that 1 million PS users only ever play on their systems:

https://kotaku.com/call-of-duty-1-million-ps4-activision-ftc-xbox-court-1850592788

nevermind that this is about a multi-player shooter that has yearly releases since 2006, while those games you mentioned clearly do not...

If they only play Call of Duty why is it a problem for them to move to Xbox?

What if they specifically didn't make the exclusivity play until next gen so no one had taken anything away from their specific hardware purchase? Would it be okay then?

CrimsonGear80 posted...

they exclusively release on game pass and no other sub service

Why is that a problem? People on other systems can still buy the game.

Microsoft sharing firstparty titles on non-Microsoft hardware: Anti-consumer!!!
Sony making thirdparty titles exclusives on Sony hardware: Consumer friendly!

loafy013 posted...

So what I'm getting from these articles is that Sony isn't spending the same amount of money on advertising these indy games as they spend on first party AAA games. Welcome to business and marketing 101. I agree with you now that a game called My Lovely Daughter didn't get the same push as God of War, or My Lovely Wife getting the same push as God of War Ragnarok.

The information about just how much worse it is for indies to work with Sony than Microsoft or Nintendo keeps piling in.
Oh yeah, so theres Nintendo who supports you, one such response begins. [Then] Microsoft who supports you and [then] there is Sony who supports its own AAA machine and gives a fuck about everyone else.
As Bloomberg reported in April, Sony shows extraordinary caution even with the games it makes itself, with an obsessive focus on blockbuster success. According to that article, the Japanese corporation is moving away from developing smaller in-house games, so fixated are they on only the largest games. It seems this lack of interest in smaller titles extends to third-party developers attempting to sell their games on the system.
Sony does not understand what indie means, an independent publisher tells me under the condition of anonymity, via Twitter DMs. Not at all. For them indie is something in the lower million budgets.
No platform is great, but Sony is particularly terrible, says another publisher to me via Discord. They know it tootheyve had a problem for a long time, and theyve been telling devs they have a problem for a long time, but theyve just never fixed anything, so the problem persists.
The issue isnt simply that Sony charges a minimum of $25,000 to be featured in a visible position on the PlayStation Storeits that this is, for most indie games, the only way to be visible. Without paying, developers are reporting that games get completely lost, which many have told us is in stark contrast to both Microsoft and Nintendos stores. While both offer ways to pay for prominence (although weve as yet been unable to confirm exact figures), what we keep being told is that they also offer many other free options too.
We get people every week saying, Saw your game on the [Xbox] dashboard today!!, a publisher of smaller indie titles tells me. The Xbox UI feels like a mess, but in reality, its actually kinda interesting that they just have so many different places and spaces to feature games.
Meanwhile on Switch were told, Without paying for featuring, there are spots on the eShop you will appear without paying. New releases, great deals, all those kinds of lists. And they will put new releases and decent discounts into the Discover tab too.
In response to Iain Garners original thread about the mysterious Platform X, a few other indies stepped forward to speak out too, and a theme that emerged was just how few sales they see on PlayStation compared to other platforms.
Matthew Wright of WhiteThorn Games published a pie chart showing the percentage of sales across consoles, with Switch making up a good 60 percent, Xbox around 30%, then Steam around 7 percent and PlayStation down at 3 percent.
Cristian Botea of indie developer and publisher Those Awesome Guys did the same, showing a whopping 91.5 percent on Steam, 7.6 percent on Switch, with 0.6 on Xbox and 0.3 percent on PlayStation.
Another publisher who wished to remain anonymous told us some exact sales figures for one small indie release they named but asked us to withhold. The game sold around 20,000 copies on Xbox, compared to just 7,000 on PlayStation. However, when it came to releasing DLC, the Microsoft console saw 2,000 units shift, while, On Sony, and [this is] not a fucking joke, until today, 7.

"It stands to reason that these games could perform better on PlayStation if Sony were more willing to promote these games, but Garner claims that developers have to "beg and plead for any level of promotion." Garner and White are not the first indie developers to cite low sales and difficulty dealing with PlayStation. Last year, Mike Rose of No More Robots claimed that PS4 sales for Nowhere Prophet were just 5% of those on Nintendo Switch. In a new Tweet today following Garner's thread, Rose made his thoughts on the matter quite clear.
"The reason you don't see more threads like it, is because devs are too worried to say it publicly," Rose wrote on Twitter. "But trust me when I say that the vast majority of devs are reading that thread, and nodding their heads violently."
Considering the sheer number of PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 users, it is a bit alarming that sales for indie games continue to struggle. Garner says he has "no idea how to succeed on this platform." As more and more developers cite issues such as these, it will be interesting to see whether or not some choose to avoid PlayStation altogether. Clearly, the system Sony has in place isn't working for indie developers. If those same developers have to pull support for PlayStation as a result, it's the fans that will end up missing out on the next Hades, Shovel Knight, or Undertale."

These aren't rando console war everyday gamers, these are actual game devs that have worked with all three platforms and they've noted this is a particular problem with Playstation.
Of course, you've just shown your own disdain and contempt for smaller games and devs so no wonder you support Playstation. The user I was responding to wasn't like that though.

And if you want to play it that way, Microsoft acquiring Activision is also business and marketing 101.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Wasn't Fallout 76 on Playstation Plus earlier this year?

a game that came out on PS4 before the zenimax acquisition. contracts were most likely had in place before that.

Punished_Blinx posted...

don't have to think anything. Sony banned the option as part of their marketing arrangement with Capcom. RE7 was previously on Game Pass.

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1384773491988303872?s=20

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1384781239748599809?s=20

seems like "rules for thee..." once again

Foppe posted...

Microsoft sharing firstparty titles on non-Microsoft hardware: Anti-consumer!!!
Sony making thirdparty titles exclusives on Sony hardware: Consumer friendly!

oh I can play Halo and Gears on playstation? didn't know that!

also third-party TIMED exclusive. ask the publishers why they don't want to put the games on xbox after that window closes. in square's case it seems like most of their games are skipping xbox lately. But not Switch.

PBusted posted...

These aren't rando console war everyday gamers, these are actual game devs that have worked with all three platforms and they've noted this is a particular problem with Playstation.
Of course, you've just shown your own disdain and contempt for smaller games and devs so no wonder you support Playstation. The user I was responding to wasn't like that though.

You seem to have quoted what i said. They are mad they aren't getting the same push in advertising as the major titles.

I love how people completely ignore that FFXIV isnt on XBOX because they wanted exclusive servers but continue to pretend that MS was always a champion of crossplay.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

a game that came out on PS4 before the zenimax acquisition. contracts were most likely had in place before that.

Nope. Phil Spencer gave the approval.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/6/8/AACT2jAAEnWo.jpg

CrimsonGear80 posted...

seems like "rules for thee..." once again

I don't know what argument you're trying to make here. I never claimed that Sony paid to make the Xbox version worse. I said they blocked Capcom from putting RE on Game Pass as part of their marketing agreement.

Then you're saying that games on Game Pass being blocked from going to other subs at the same time is the same thing.

loafy013 posted...

You seem to have quoted what i said. They are mad they aren't getting the same push in advertising as the major titles.

So not only do you strawman me, you're strawmanning game devs too. They didn't say as much as the major titles, they just want any visibility at all. Nintendo and Microsoft are doing it, Playstation has no excuse but spite.

PBusted posted...

So not only do you strawman me, you're strawmanning game devs too. They didn't say as much as the major titles, they just want any visibility at all. Nintendo and Microsoft are doing it, Playstation has no excuse but spite.

I said they were mad they weren't getting the same push. You call it a strawman. So how do you interpret this quote?

"It stands to reason that these games could perform better on PlayStation if Sony were more willing to promote these games, but Garner claims that developers have to "beg and plead for any level of promotion."

Punished_Blinx posted...

Nope. Phil Spencer gave the approval.

OK...He also states in the same e-mail that he wouldn't allow minecraft on a PS sub service.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I don't know what argument you're trying to make here. I never claimed that Sony paid to make the Xbox version worse. I said they blocked Capcom from putting RE on Game Pass as part of their marketing agreement.

but you are arguing like ONLY Sony makes such agreements. I posted tweets from a expert in the field that says otherwise.

also that agreement is long since over so ask CAPCOM why they won't put RE8 on gamepass now.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

OK...He also states in the same e-mail that he wouldn't allow minecraft on a PS sub service.

So? It's their content.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

but you are arguing like ONLY Sony makes such agreements

When did I argue that?

CrimsonGear80 posted...

so basically "fuck playstation users" who have played COD on playstation consoles since forever? are playstation users not consumers as well? Cause that's basically what you are saying.

This post has strong Square just shot itself in the foot energy.

They're not taking CoD away from playstation. There's no "Fuck PlayStation users" here.

There's maybe a fuck Sony element but Sony isn't its own users

loafy013 posted...

I said they were mad they weren't getting the same push. You call it a strawman. So how do you interpret this quote?

How does that say they want the same push as major titles and not just any visibility at all? Are you being dense on purpose or just trolling? They even mention that Nintendo and Xbox have sections for them that Playstation doesn't.

Playstation fanboys come in to defend Sony only to showcase how awful they are. The eternal cycle.

I grew out of my console wars phase a solid 25 years ago. I haven't followed any of this and I have no horse in the race. That said... The number of people cheering on a trillion dollar corporation as it buys up the entire gaming industry to put competition out of business, is alarming. Corporations aren't your friends. If/when Microsoft is the only game in town, you may regret it.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

oh I can play Halo and Gears on playstation? didn't know that!

You must put your whole gaming catalog out now for it to count?

Akuryu posted...

I grew out of my console wars phase a solid 25 years ago. I haven't followed any of this and I have no horse in the race. That said... The number of people cheering on a trillion dollar corporation as it buys up the entire gaming industry to put competition out of business, is alarming. Corporations aren't your friends. If/when Microsoft is the only game in town, you may regret it.

Only console war fanboys think activision is the entire gaming industry and that it'll put competition out of business.

I like how Sony throws a fit when they have been doing the same for years.

CrimsonGear80 posted...

so basically "fuck playstation users" who have played COD on playstation consoles since forever? are playstation users not consumers as well? Cause that's basically what you are saying.

Consumers can still play CoD on Sony Playstation (admittedly allegedly, because we don't actually know how valid MS's ten year deal really is) and even if they don't they still have the option to play CoD on a different device.
How does the materially affect the gaming industry in a negative way for consumers? The option is still there. This won't ultimately remove options for the consumer as it is. If people switch to Xbox over this, then so what? What really is the problem with that?

WesternMedia posted...

Only console war fanboys think activision is the entire gaming industry and that it'll put competition out of business.

Activision isn't the first acquisition, not will it be the last. There are documents showing Microsoft considering purchasing literally dozens of companies.

Akuryu posted...

Activision isn't the first acquisition, not will it be the last. There are documents showing Microsoft considering purchasing literally dozens of companies.

That doesn't mean they intended to pick all of them.

They clearly chose Bethesda and Activision.

If they did buy more it would be under regulator scrutiny just like this too.

Akuryu posted...

Activision isn't the first acquisition, not will it be the last. There are documents showing Microsoft considering purchasing literally dozens of companies.

The expected slippery slope. The documents actually prove the opposite since it shows that the other companies weren't willing to be sold to Microsoft with one of them even going to Sony instead. Activision was willing to be sold because of their unique circumstances after their scandal.

Also I thought you weren't following the case at all

UndefeatedGOAT posted...

destin from screwattack hard news?

I loved those vids, surprised hes still internetting

He makes YouTube videos all the time too. He still goes by Destin on there too

In related news, the UK courts blocked the CMA motion to delay the appeal.

https://www.ign.com/articles/cmas-attempt-to-postpone-microsoft-hearing-denied

Tyranthraxus posted...

In related news, the UK courts blocked the CMA motion to delay the appeal.

https://www.ign.com/articles/cmas-attempt-to-postpone-microsoft-hearing-denied

Its a fair way to do it. The CMA was trying to stall until the acquisition deadline passed

whats the context of all this

Tyranthraxus posted...

In related news, the UK courts blocked the CMA motion to delay the appeal.

https://www.ign.com/articles/cmas-attempt-to-postpone-microsoft-hearing-denied

Sorry Sony, the UK can't bail you out this time.

DarthAragorn posted...

I remember 30 day early releases of CoD DLC and maybe some other games' DLCs on the 360 and timed exclusivity for Rise of the Tomb Raider

The former was over a decade ago and the latter was nearly that long ago as well, while Sony is still doing it as recently as last week

Only 2 examples? And one that was when Don Mattrick was running the show. You can do better. Sony has been doing this for every AAA game this gen

what is this about

I dont get it.
When Nintendo fanboys were sad that Square went Sony, Sony fanboys gave them the finger and told them to buy a Playstation.
When Microsoft wants to buy Activision, and promise to keep CoD multisystem, Sony fanboys cries, seems to believe that the only reason to own a PS5 is because of CoD and that we will never see a CoD game on Sony hardware ever again.

Foppe posted...

I dont get it.
When Nintendo fanboys were sad that Square went Sony, Sony fanboys gave them the finger and told them to buy a Playstation.
When Microsoft wants to buy Activision, and promise to keep CoD multisystem, Sony fanboys cries, seems to believe that the only reason to own a PS5 is because of CoD and that we will never see a CoD game on Sony hardware ever again.

Its what fanboys do.

Foppe posted...

I dont get it.
When Nintendo fanboys were sad that Square went Sony, Sony fanboys gave them the finger and told them to buy a Playstation.
When Microsoft wants to buy Activision, and promise to keep CoD multisystem, Sony fanboys cries, seems to believe that the only reason to own a PS5 is because of CoD and that we will never see a CoD game on Sony hardware ever again.

If Sony wasn't so stupid they would actively try to get something other than Call of Duty to help sell their systems. When was the last SOCOM game? How about the Last Tribes game? TimeSplitters? Christ they could reboot Battlefield or Medal of Honor and help sell their systems.

Why does it have to be Call of Duty? I get that its a popular franchise, but they could do so much better if they focus on making a solid shooter.