Current Events > Do you have any opinions on Pokemon Colosseum?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I really like this game. This is the Pokemon game I'm happiest to replay.
It's got the smallest range of Pokemon to choose from but it's all double battles and it's pre-spec/phys split. By today's standards it's a pretty weird game.

I finally did a run where I picked Bayleef recently and I regretted my decision.

Colosseum and GoD both have the problem is that Pokemon (at least in the early days) was designed as a handheld game first and foremost. Transferring them to the gamecube with an admittedly neat story means the gameplay loop dropped to an absolutely glacial pace, what with all of them being double battles. That + the smaller pool of pokemon to play with means the games are fun once or twice but I haven't had a single inkling to go back and replay them after the first time I beat them.

Gale of darkness didn't even have the benefit of "cool" factor (we're talking cool in terms of the pokemon world lol) like colosseum, it was carried entirely by "oooh shadow Lugia"

But I also weirdly liked them and this was the tail end of my pokemon days before I ultimately dropped the series forever

Top Pokemon game

Prototype Persona 5, with the best Pokemon battle format... Doubles

Wes is Red but actually cool, and he has TWO main Pokemon. It's also associated with best Gen.

https://youtu.be/2akYmG2CMD8

Id probably buy a Colosseum 3 in a heartbeat despite dropping Pokemon in Gen 7

I like that the MC is huge Chad

PowerOats posted...

Prototype Persona 5

I'm so curious as to what this is supposed to mean.

Cemith posted...

but I haven't had a single inkling to go back and replay them after the first time I beat them.

Not for the music? Or starting in the mid lv20s? Or OP Surf before it hit your partner too? Or Miror B? Or getting legendaries when you're about a quarter into the game? Master ball glitch? The legend himself Hitmontop?

I haven't played the sequel in a while either. I have this weird 18 year curse where my copy mysteriously vanishes for long periods of time.
I do remember Citadark Isle being a stupidly long level though and I'd like to go back some time and see if that's still true.

Cemith posted...

absolutely glacial pace

this is my main complaint about them, I played both colosseum and XD but never finished either because everything just takes so long and it feels like a massive waste of time

they both have extremely good OST though

ViewtifulJoe posted...

Not for the music? Or starting in the mid lv20s? Or OP Surf before it hit your partner too? Or Miror B? Or getting legendaries when you're about a quarter into the game? Master ball glitch? The legend himself Hitmontop?

Nah, Miror B's theme carries the soundtrack, level 20's is only like the third gym in most games, and you only gain another 20 or so levels throughout the entire rest of the game. No strong opinions about Surf. Miror B is pog but I like him better in GoD because he basically rescues shadow pokemon for you.

Master Ball glitch is also dope but again, small pool of Pokemon so outside of legendaries that are available (with little exception) everything caught with Master Ball's is mostly arbitrary.

I see y'all talking about the soundtrack so maybe I'll go back and give it a listen but the actual battle music is only okay and as I said, Miror B's theme is the only ear worm I remember.

It and GoD were both sick to me!

Played them all the time growing up. Some of that might be lost now that Pokemon is a home console series now, so seeing Pokemon in 3D won't really have the same effect.

Still, the setting, music, and story will always make those games unique in their own right.

Colosseum is a better 3D Pokemon game than any of the Switch titles.

It also dared to make the protagonist actually interesting (he's a former villain)

Never played XD though, aged out of Pokemon by that point.

I loved the difficulty in Pokemon Colosseum. XD was disappointingly too easy, but the unique moves upon purification were interesting. A shame I can't bring them into Scarlet or Violet without them being erased.

I played those games a bunch back in the day. can't believe I sold 'em.

Cemith posted...

the only ear worm I remember.

a few of my favourites -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJzD4o0YozA (the way it's like two songs in one is very cool)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IVACBm572c (makes you want to snap along)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K9FHbF977M (cool and menacing and has their theme blended in very well)

Okay yeah those bang I take it back. I can't believe I forgot about Pyrite Town.

One of the best Pokemon games, Gale of Darkness improved on it and solidified my choice for favorite Pokemon Lugia.

do you have set pokemon in these games like in stadium? i don't care for the series in general but i liked the idea of having to solve things with a limited set of options

Wow, a 3D Pokemon RPG!

...not really

those were my thoughts back in the day

Mediocre at best. Played it on a rent, and got bored.

I like The Under's theme and the Cipher Lab song too.

Illuminoius posted...

do you have set pokemon in these games like in stadium? i don't care for the series in general but i liked the idea of having to solve things with a limited set of options

Not really. Early Colosseum prior to beating Miror B's a bit like that but pretty much all of the Shadow Pokemon you'll get are decently strong and bulky so you'll probably make it without having to strategize.

Once you get a maxed out starter or a legendary you can brute force everything from there.

I hate coliseum battles where they level scale the pokemon to be the same as you. How are you supposed to brute force your way through to the top if they're also level 100? At that point it becomes a game of luck, there's no way you can win when the AI knows your moves and cheats

Revisited posted...

I hate coliseum battles where they level scale the pokemon to be the same as you. How are you supposed to brute force your way through to the top if they're also level 100? At that point it becomes a game of luck, there's no way you can win when the AI knows your moves and cheats

AI is limited. A true strategist can use the vast array of move pools and Pokemon to run circles around the limited strategies A.I. can employ.

My move pool is flamethrower, psychic, ice beam and thunderbolt (the big 4 as it were) should that not suffice?

Play Pokemon Grand Colosseum

This and gale of darkness are the best pokemon spinoffs. Its proof that they can make the plot of a pokemon game that isnt the same copy pasted formula like sun moon are

I remember they were shit on back then for not having the same formula as the main titles.

Now all of a sudden people like them for the same reason.

Miror B has the best battle theme in Gale of Darkness in my opinion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cJhuzoXe3bc&t=933s&pp=ygUNbWlyb3IgYiB0aGVtZQ%3D%3D

His battle theme in Colosseum isnt too bad either, just sayin.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8BHhJUd6pRI&pp=ygUNbWlyb3IgYiB0aGVtZQ%3D%3D

BlueAnnihilator posted...

I remember they were shit on back then for not having the same formula as the main titles.

Now all of a sudden people like them for the same reason.

Those were nerds who hate change.

One of my faves. Used to hate it at first but it grew on me. Funny how the game ended up looking better than most modern pokemon games despite releasing on weaker hardware.

It was fun for the first few hours. Then having to convert the Pokmon just became a pain. I was really only a fan of the show so grinding Pokmon just wasn't my cup of tea.

Absolutely banger games that should have been used as the basis for full console games, but instead we continued on with Gamefreaks' shit.

PiOverlord posted...

Those were nerds who hate change.

And PS2 fans in my experience. The shovelware worshippers of the time. Everyone had a GBA though.

I was on board since the first E3 trailer and those early magazine previews. That shit was hype.
There were PS2 loyalists around me going "3D Pokemon? They already did that, that's the same as Pokemon Stadium." like they hadn't seen the trailers showing it was way more than a 3D battle sim.

I still remember that sinking feeling when it was revealed Pokemon Battle Revolution was only going to be menuing and battles.
No world to run around, no adventure.

I love them, but I'm not blind to their problems.

The challenge factor is excellent, but making Shadow Rush a recoil move in Colosseum was a bad call. It's a race against tge clock to catch the things, especially when half the nocs have moves that KO their own teammates. Pair that with a lot of super-low-catch-rate shadow pokemon, and it got rough. I basically feel compelled to save after every battle, which wouldn't be a problem if I didn't have to run all the way back to a PC every time.

XD fixed that, but replaced it with "let's have 4, 5, 6 dhadow p9kemon on a single team!" Which... I'm sorry, it's too much.

If you miss a shadow pokemon, it's a massive timesink to get even a single one to come back around for a second chance. Couple that with the waiting game for wild pokemon in XD, the purification slog in Colosseum, and mount battle needing two separate clears, in two different modes, and the games just REALLY feel like they're out to waste your time.

Also. XD took a massive step back into kiddieland. Colosseum was hardly high art, but it was a nice, gritty change of pace tonally. Criminal protagonist, stealing pokemon, two evil teams doing legitimately evil things, etc. Then we get to XD and right out of the gate we get... Chobin. And Jovi. And that basically set the tone.

ViewtifulJoe posted...

I still remember that sinking feeling when it was revealed Pokemon Battle Revolution was only going to be menuing and battles.
No world to run around, no adventure.

same :(

I was so excited for it when I heard about it because I actually never heard of Stadium. Didn't know there was a Pokemon game that was more focused on just battling, and assumed the console Pokemon template was a more story-driven adventure like the GCN Pokemon.

Battling is cool and all, and I truly do understand where people would find the enjoyment out of those type of games (and to an extent, it's a little fun to hear about the many mechanics that go into battling), but they aren't for me. I have no interest in battle simulators when it comes to Pokemon. Always enjoyed the adventure aspect more.

Back in the day when it came out I kinda hated the two GCN rpgs mostly because there was so many missing pokemon. Especially since you could fight pokemon that you would not be able to use.

Over time I grew to appreciate the games. Since they presented something different in the pokemon games. I think haveing games based around double battles is pretty cool, and the way shadow pokemon work is a neat way of showing the bond between pokemon and trainer.

Also Mirror B's music in both games absolutely slapps

firedoom666 posted...

Back in the day when it came out I kinda hated the two GCN rpgs mostly because there was so many missing pokemon. Especially since you could fight pokemon that you would not be able to use.

Over time I grew to appreciate the games. Since they presented something different in the pokemon games. I think haveing games based around double battles is pretty cool, and the way shadow pokemon work is a neat way of showing the bond between pokemon and trainer.

Also Mirror B's music in both games absolutely slapps

FYI, if you had a GameCube adapter and a GBA link cable, you could transfer over any of your Pokmon from Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald (not sure about Fire Red or Leaf Green) and use them instead of the ones Wes catches throughout the course of the games story. So if for some reason, you wanted Wes to be using Groudon and Kyogre instead of his Umbreon and Espeon, you could do that at any point after reaching Phenac City for the first time IIRC.

I like both GameCube games! Shadow Pokmon were especially cool in Gale of Darkness once there was actually a whole move pool for Shadow type. There was even Shadow Castform with a unique weather! Miror B is iconic.

I also like how the limited options for catching Pokmon adds more of a puzzle element to the game, where instead of just choosing your 'mon from the wild grass, you need to build up your stock from the existing trainers-- which also provides more incentive to fight all of them in case someone has a Shadow pokemon.

I would love if the concept was explored again in some form. It's too bad you can't post about the games on /v/ because of "XD".

firedoom666 posted...

Also Mirror B's music in both games absolutely slapps

In XY we literally had a "rival" whose whole shtick was being obsessed with dancing and wanting to travel the world to be the best dancer ever, and they didn't even give Miror B. a cameo.

Bastards.

I have absolutely no opinion on the Pokmon universe

DarkBuster22904 posted...

In XY we literally had a "rival" whose whole shtick was being obsessed with dancing and wanting to travel the world to be the best dancer ever, and they didn't even give Miror B. a cameo.

Bastards.

Proto-Hau? Seriously, I replayed X a while back after finishing Ultra Sun and thats what I christened that kid since he reminded me of Hau for some reason.

Agent_Stroud posted...

FYI, if you had a GameCube adapter and a GBA link cable, you could transfer over any of your Pokmon from Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald (not sure about Fire Red or Leaf Green) and use them instead of the ones Wes catches throughout the course of the games story. So if for some reason, you wanted Wes to be using Groudon and Kyogre instead of his Umbreon and Espeon, you could do that at any point after reaching Phenac City for the first time IIRC.

Nope, you couldn't trade Pokmon in or out of the GCN games until you bear the story.

Phantom_Nook posted...

Nope, you couldn't trade Pokmon in or out of the GCN games until you bear the story.

My mistake then, as I havent had the pleasure of playing Colosseum since my old Nintendo GameCube and Wii got placed into storage in the attic several years ago and I dont feel like getting covered in rodent droppings and insulation while digging through boxes up there in an attempt to find them.

I played XD first, and it invariably ended up being my favorite of the two. Never expected a Pokemon offshoot game to have that good of a soundtrack.

I can see how people would favor it the other way around, though: for instance, cool dude riding a steampunk hog with a cute Misty knockoff tagalong > regular kid on a moped with an eye radar.

doshindude posted...

Colosseum is a better 3D Pokemon game than any of the Switch titles.

Gamefreak is smol indie dev

Tbh, I think Arceus is a really good game. I know the graphics are kinda meh, but I think it's a case where good gameplay trumps the rest. I enjoyed the latter part of the story too as well, and I think it had a bare minimum top 3 battle for us casual players in the series (referring to Volo//Giratina here).

I haven't played Arceus, but I definitely glanced in its general direction when I heard they were trying something unique again. I've only seen a bit but it looks kinda cool.

And also, it's a Pokemon game where you're sent to a different time/place. And presumably get comfy living there.
Do they think I can't see that giant Pokemon Mystery Dungeon your guy disappears ending looming over it like a huge cartoon anvil?

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Also. XD took a massive step back into kiddieland. Colosseum was hardly high art, but it was a nice, gritty change of pace tonally. Criminal protagonist, stealing pokemon, two evil teams doing legitimately evil things, etc. Then we get to XD and right out of the gate we get... Chobin. And Jovi. And that basically set the tone.

Soooo much this. I skipped XD due to the tonal shift "we need to be kiddie again" whiplash.

masterpug53 posted...

Misty knockoff

That's what it is! I was wondering why I liked having her as Wes's partner when I was young, must have been subconscious reminder of Misty.

Also come on how could you have like gale more, they went from Wes to an obviously 8 year old kid on a moped... we went from the silly but cool interpretation of a cool guy and cool bike in colosseum to the lamest of the lame in xd.

Pokemon Colosseum is a good game held back by being really grindy when to comes to purifying Shadow Pokemon. That's really not helped by how bad some of the Pokemon you have to pick from were in terms of stats and movepool.

Gale of Darkness is a big improvement in the gameplay. Making it easier to purify Shadow Pokemon while also rewarding you for catching them was the best way to improve that whole system. Even the Shadow Pokemon were more fun to use now that they had more than one Shadow-type attack. And in general having more Pokemon to catch meant it didn't suffer from the first game' s problems with the roster being limited in viability. There's even new minigames to play, something the first game outright lacked!. About the only downside is the tone shift. The atmosphere in the first game is still pretty unique in the franchise, being like Fallout for an all ages audience. That being said, I don't mind it because it means the actions from the first game still mattered. It showed the positive impact Wes an Rui had on Orre that the region itself was starting to heal from its damage.