Current Events > what is your opinion on anti-ukraine leftists (like this one)?!

(+) Yeah! (+)

i see these people on twitter every now and then! are these actual leftists or are they just right-wingers posing as leftists?! how the hell can you call yourself a leftist and side with russia?!
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/9/9/AANwnAAAEx2_.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/0/0/AANwnAAAEx3A.png https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/0/1/AANwnAAAEx3B.png

Totally fake democrat Russian shill.

Ehh I don't know. This person is clearly an idiot; whataboutism isn't really an argument of any kind. There's definitely alot to criticize the Democratic party about, though. They are for certain warmongering corporate shills, but I don't really see what that has to do with helping Ukraine fight for its very existence.

If I was even slightly more skeptical I'd say this was just a psyop to make it taboo to talk about how utterly two-faced the Democratic Party is when it comes to its warmongering shilling for the military industrial complex.

Carljank posted...

Totally fake democrat Russian shill.

Especially since they're just mimicking the same talking points that regressives make. If you wanted to criticize Biden on Ukraine fairly, you wouldn't bring his time as vice president into it because he did fuck all those 8 years lol.

This guy ain't the arbiter of political ideology either, that's another thing regressives ran into the ground is saying everyone is a RINO when they agree on 80% of their policy regardless

the usage of "true" & "real" has gained traction in the sus communities

Lol we have a few of those like minded people who post here.

nexigrams posted...

whataboutism isn't really an argument of any kind.

Yes. It's the kind of term that would get a person kicked out of any serious debate.

nexigrams posted...

There's definitely alot to criticize the Democratic party about, though.

Yes. People have theorized that if the GOP is ever disbanded (or dissolves on its own), the Dems would probably split into the establishment and progressive factions.

I stress, establishment. They're the "not that far removed from Republicans when it comes to corporate interests" type. The ones TonyKojima worships, because if there's one thing he hates more than (allegedly) conservatives, it's progressives.

Well since I believe in my soul that "leftist" encompasses everything good that could possibly exist, I'm left with one option, that being they aren't real leftists. And the team remains pure.

ProfessorKukui posted...

the usage of "true" & "real" has gained traction in the sus communities

Yeah, I call them red flag words (pending a catchier name).

Much like how "family" and "traditional" are red flags when found in the name of any political group, "truth" and "real" are similarly red flags when found in the name of a media outlet or journal.

So naturally, Truth Social was the perfect name for Trump's platform. It's about as on the nose as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.

shnangyboos posted...

Well since I believe in my soul that "leftist" encompasses everything good that could possibly exist, I'm left with one option, that being they aren't real leftists. And the team remains pure.

Are you doing the Savoots thing?

I don't think they exist. I think this is a right-wing troll.

Obvious Russian shill pretending to be American.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Obvious Russian shill pretending to be American.

Remember SuperInfinity46?
Wonder what they'd be up to around here if they hadn't disappeared years ago.

There are some leftists (tankies) who hate America & the west so much that they'll shill for places like Russia, China and North Korea.

Trelve posted...

There are some leftists (tankies) who hate America & the west so much that they'll shill for places like Russia, China and North Korea.

Yep usually shitposting from the comfort of living in the UK or US.

Even ignoring the english being broken in a specific way that doesn't come from first-language speakers, "Russia isn't genociding anyone" is an incredibly bold piece of shit to post. I never truly understood the phrase "levelled a city" until I saw pictures of what they did.

sfcalimari posted...

Yep usually shitposting from the comfort of living in the UK or US.

This is what gets me about Fenris and Trowa. If they actually lived in their beloved China, they'd either be unable to post here or they're getting around the fire wall somehow (VPN?).

Can't imagine their CCP lords being too happy about that.

flussence posted...

Even ignoring the english being broken in a specific way that doesn't come from first-language speakers, "Russia isn't genociding anyone" is an incredibly bold piece of shit to post. I never truly understood the phrase "levelled a city" until I saw pictures of what they did.

The aforementioned SuperInfinity46 once said, in these exact words, "Russia is a shining example of democracy." It was my sig for awhile. But at least that was funny in a sockpuppet kind of way, not offensive.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Yes. It's the kind of term that would get a person kicked out of any serious debate.

Except almost nobody in serious in-person debates cry about "whataboutism" (which itself is just a relabeled tu quoque), and in fact it's often misused to dismiss any sort of legitimate comparisons of issues. It is not whataboutism for instance to point out the US government's double standards in dealing with human rights issues of its opponents vs its allies and itself in the same timeframe. It is whataboutism when people bring out something completely irrelevant in order to dismiss the issue at hand, eg "It's okay for Russia to invade Ukraine because Iraq War!"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/opinion/one-cheer-for-whataboutism.html

Ad hominem gets a bad press, but it isn't without merit, when used in good faith. It's useful in an argument to show that the stance being taken against you is inconsistent or hypocritical. It doesn't win the day, but it chips away at your opponent's moral standing and raises doubt about the entirety of his or her position.

Dark_Arbron posted...

This is what gets me about Fenris and Trowa. If they actually lived in their beloved China, they'd either be unable to post here or they're getting around the fire wall somehow (VPN?).

Can't imagine their CCP lords being too happy about that.

LOL this website isn't even blocked in China, and I'm sure anyone cares that out of the hundreds of millions of netizen in China, someone is arguing on the internet.

And it's no surprise that you tried to use the tired Yellow Peril nonsense that Chinese people are incapable of agency. And it's no surprise seeing nonsense like "social credit" that gets passed around in the American internet, ones that even US researchers dismissed as hearsay. Seeing the US's propaganda against China first hand does a much better job in create Chinese nationalism than any of the CCP's own propaganda.

"I'm a leftist, I just support Vladimir Putin" is beyond a red flag

It's like a red Tsunami

That reads more like a bot farm troll than anything else.

I'm one of those much maligned anti-war left types, but this dude... yikes.

They are either naive idiots unwillingly consuming russian propaganda or are tankies (red fascists)

People still fetishizing the Soviet Union should talk to the people who lived under it. Or in the countries directly bordering it.

Looks like a pretty obvious Russia shill, anyone who can say with a straight face "Except Russia isn't genociding anyone" is not a serious person worth listening to ever.

Whataboutism is supposed to stifle things happening in isolation. Equivalencies can be valid but they are not supposed to be contingent or timely.

Fenriswolf posted...

LOL this website isn't even blocked in China, and I'm sure anyone cares that out of the hundreds of millions of netizen in China, someone is arguing on the internet.

And it's no surprise that you tried to use the tired Yellow Peril nonsense that Chinese people are incapable of agency. And it's no surprise seeing nonsense like "social credit" that gets passed around in the American internet, ones that even US researchers dismissed as hearsay. Seeing the US's propaganda against China first hand does a much better job in create Chinese nationalism than any of the CCP's own propaganda.

You still won't tell anyone how China is supposed to change from the bottom up or how a new order can be arranged. Y'all sound stuck with your bad situation.

That mandate of heaven stuff you've mentioned in the past is a crock of shit.

Noam Chomsky believes Ukraine should surrender to Russia for the sake of world peace. His main argument was that they would be treated just as badly within America's sphere of influence and that Russian imperialism was less of a threat to the world than American imperialism. By not surrendering, they are just goading Russia, which brings the world closer to a World War.

I remember an open letter from a famous Ukranian leftist in the Jacobin chastising other leftists for being hypocrites and supporting imperialism just because it's Russia. His sentiment was who cares if America is helping only to further its own goals, it's the Russian military who's the immediate threat to Ukraine's sovereignty. They'd take help from Russia if it was America who was the invading party.

BB_mofo posted...

Noam Chomsky believes Ukraine should surrender to Russia for the sake of world peace.

Weird thing to lie about.

A good example of how you can go "so far left that you end up sounding like a right-winger". That line where he claimed Putin is not executing a genocide just tells me he's a Putin penis holster who won't hold anything against him because everything is America's fault.

Which, America is responsible for a lot of awful shit, but using that as a basis to be the only thing to complain about or act like we're the only villains is shit-for-brains tier.

BB_mofo posted...

Noam Chomsky believes Ukraine should surrender to Russia for the sake of world peace.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/3/AAde2jAAEyJz.jpg

An uncompromising anti-war stance is the only one I see as coherent with leftism.

Shilling for Russia is not a coherent stance.

AloneIBreak posted...

Weird thing to lie about.

Funny, this is what he always seems to dance around. OTOH I've given Chomsky the side-eye for a long time, ever since the guy acted as an apologist for the Cambodian genocide. Any side that receives some American support he immediately sees as the bad guy. The dude would have probably supported the Axis powers just because the United States was on the Allies side.

it's textbook horseshoe theory. an (actual, not the watered down conservative version where anything left of the US overton window is communist) insane left-winger sounds almost indistinguishable from an insane right-winger.

Stalin apologists (who these days tend to think disturbingly highly of Putin) are an actual thing. I don't know how either.

Also see: OP is probably genuine, and probably just as absolutely off the wall as you'd think.

Noam Chomsky is a linguist who people started taking seriously about non-linguistic matters for god knows what reason.

NhojAnec posted...

how the hell can you call yourself a leftist and side with russia?!

By lying. If you support overt totalitarian/authoritarian regimes then you aren't a leftist.

Starks posted...

You still won't tell anyone how China is supposed to change from the bottom up or how a new order can be arranged. Y'all sound stuck with your bad situation.

That mandate of heaven stuff you've mentioned in the past is a crock of shit.

And that's the weird American obsession with regime change in China. Let's ignore the fact that China's worst periods in history are when revolutions happen and tends of millions die. The fall of the USSR actually saw a drastic reduction in GDP, living standards, and life expectancy for the average Russian, but hey, it eliminated America's geopolitical rival so it's all good right?

Can a new regime fulfill the basic needs of the average Chinese and address issues like social stability, poverty reduction, and food security, things that Americans take for granted? And of course it's less about actually give a damn about what the Chinese want than to weaken China because it dares to challenge the USA on the global stage.

BB_mofo posted...

Funny, this is what he always seems to dance around. OTOH I've given Chomsky the side-eye for a long time, ever since the guy acted as an apologist for the Cambodian genocide. Any side that receives some American support he immediately sees as the bad guy. The dude would have probably supported the Axis powers just because the United States was on the Allies side.

Nonsense. To the average American nationalist, any criticism of its military spread and double standards in international policy somehow equates to "giving aid and comfort to the enemy". And being an anarchist and Jew, he is certainly not a support of Nazism or fascism, ironically considering that the US itself backed fascists and former Nazis during the Cold War simply because they opposed the USSR.

Chomsky's point in bringing up US war crimes is 1) Being American, he hopes that his American readers can become aware of those issues and push for change 2) As he pointed out in his propaganda model, the US media has a habit of highlighting the atrocities of its geopolitical opponents but downplay those of its allies, seeing how it depicts the USSR vs Latin American dictatorships back then, and China vs Saudi Arabia today.

Chomsky had illusions about the Khmer Rouge because he hoped the new regime would be better than the previous US backed dictatorship, as the country suffered heavily due to years of US bombings. Meanwhile when the Vietnamese invaded and drove the Khmer Rouge out, the West backed the Khmer Rouge's guerilla campaign against the new government, simply because the latter was backed by the Soviets.

Didn't fenriswolf admit to taking money to shill for China at one point?

I could believe someone might hate war enough to just be mad at everyone in the usa but that same dude would not defend russia.

It's the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality that exist in international politics, and is not even limited to just tankies. How many Western mainstream pundits are parroting the lie that Azov Battalion are "no longer neo-Nazi" despite photographic evidence to the contrary? And celebrities like Mark Hamill blindly get in photo ops with fighters that display SS tattoos. Pretty sure you can defend Ukraine's right to self defence without whitewashing everything.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/azov-battalion-neo-nazi/

Theyve either fallen prey to Russian propaganda, or are silly enough to think that any regime opposed to the US is correct in what they do.

Or, they dont realise that Russia is now a kleptocracy m

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/1/2/AAcJoVAAEw1k.jpg

That specific guy is a troll. But others have just consistently been isolationist foreign policy-wise.

Fenriswolf posted...

It's the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality that exist in international politics, and is not even limited to just tankies.

And this is a really dumb take for people who actually think it holds logic (not saying you do, saying the people who do)

If the enemy of your enemy are literal Nazis, like the Wagner group, then you're calling literal Nazis your friends.

Anybody who just blindly adheres to that "philosophy" does not have critical thinking skills.