Current Events > Communism: Give a man a home and he will think of how to fill it

(+) Yeah! (+)

DKBananaSlamma posted...

Yall need to read Animal Farm or something smh

Lmao, how about you read The Jungle then

Since we can use 20th century literature to determine how 21st century societies will operate

AnsestralRecall posted...

Lmao, how about you read The Jungle then

Since we can use 20th century literature to determine how 21st century societies will operate

uh oh

Also please Neon, don't embarrass yourself more than your horny posting already does. It's clear you don't know shit about anything relevant to discussions on communism

AnsestralRecall posted...

Lmao, how about you read The Jungle then

Since we can use 20th century literature to determine how 21st century societies will operate

Nah

DKBananaSlamma posted...

Also communism: let's kill millions of people for teh lulz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Why am I not surprised to see this post coming from you?

scar_the_1 posted...

The post you responded to (mine) only criticized one totalitarian, imperialist state: the US. I suppose that's 50 states but you get the point

B-but MURICA BAD.

nobody tell them about the diamond and precious metals industries

It's fine now, it's just getting worse. You don't even know how I feel about America.

animebop posted...

By this logic, you are willing to tell the slaves that came across in the north atlantic slave that they they should be relieved to know it's ok because socialism bad.

And there it is. Every time.

You totally dont simp for the USSR or PRC, but every time someone dares to criticize them, its B-but MURICA BAD!

McMarbles posted...

And there it is. Every time.

You totally dont simp for the USSR or PRC, but every time someone dares to criticize them, its B-but MURICA BAD!

Have you considered America is bad? Or are you truly invincible?

Gwynevere posted...

Are you talking about communists or the ideal world of theocratic politicians in red states?

Yes

McMarbles posted...

but every time someone dares to criticize them

they don't exist anymore so why are you trying to criticize something that no longer exists?

Feudalism 2024

GrandConjuraton posted...

Why am I not surprised to see this post coming from you?

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

But as not as much of a villain as that random poster from years ago that said she was okay with kids dying in order to overthrow the government for a communist regime because it was a completely acceptable sacrifice. I forgot who said it but shit was wild. I remember it every few months along with the Gilberto dog post lol >_>

If anything, we should just free ourselves of baseless negative stigmas and mix the ideologies that aren't inherently bad into cohesive units of governing that work within a system to help people.

We do this with Socialism and capitalism and it works. Obviously there is no room for fascism or feudalism, but surely we could create something new and beautiful if we really tried.

Our current system of infinite growth through Capitalism is not sustainable for this country or planet.

DKBananaSlamma posted...

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

But as not ass much of a villain as that random poster from years ago that said she was okay with kids dying in order to overthrow the government for a communist regime because it was a completely acceptable sacrifice.

That really wasn't what I said, but it's not like I can clarify without resuspending myself. Mods have been very clear that I've been a naughty girl

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Have you considered America is bad? Or are you truly invincible?

America is bad. America has meddled in international affairs it has no business interfering with. America has had chattel slavery. The prison and police systems are gross. The Native Americans were subjected to genocide. One of two major political parties is openly advocating genocide.

Okay, so what now? I know your whole method of arguing depends on painting your opponent as some sort of brain-dead rah-rah patriot, so what now? What do you do when B-But MURICA BAD! doesnt win you the argument?

WingsOfGood posted...

they don't exist anymore so why are you trying to criticize something that no longer exists?

Did the PRC suddenly vanish?

McMarbles posted...

America is bad.

So how do we make it not bad?

itachi15243 posted...

If anything, we should just free ourselves of baseless negative stigmas and mix the ideologies that aren't inherently bad into cohesive units of governing that work within a system to help people.

We do this with Socialism and capitalism and it works. Obviously there is no room for fascism or feudalism, but surely we could create something new and beautiful if we really tried.

Our current system of infinite growth through Capitalism is not sustainable for this country or planet.

This is the way.

McMarbles posted...

Did the PRC suddenly vanish?

There are 5 countries that still identify as communist, but the poster is probably going with the "well they aren't REALLY communist" defense.

McMarbles posted...

The response against any criticism of communism as it has been practiced historically has not been okay, yeah, that was bad but it can be avoided going forward, but a knee-jerk B-but MURICA BAD.

Because:

1. People are so far past 'we can do better!' that it's useless to have that discussion. People who think Stalin killing millions should prevent us from giving housing to poor people don't care.
2. It only makes sense if you think capitalism has done unquestionably better.

McMarbles posted...

And there it is. Every time.

You totally dont simp for the USSR or PRC, but every time someone dares to criticize them, its B-but MURICA BAD!

Don't point out I'm making stupid arguments! Or you're a tankie!

McMarbles posted...

? I know your whole method of arguing depends on painting your opponent as some sort of brain-dead rah-rah patriot, so what now? What do you do when B-But MURICA BAD! doesnt win you the argument?

You don't know what the argument is about and won't go out of your way to address it because then you'd have to use different words

We have established America is bad.

How do we change that?

WingsOfGood posted...

So how do we make it not bad?

Well, not by emulating other failed states.

McMarbles posted...

America is bad. America has meddled in international affairs it has no business interfering with. America has had chattel slavery. The prison and police systems are gross. The Native Americans were subjected to genocide. One of two major political parties is openly advocating genocide.

Okay, so what now? I know your whole method of arguing depends on painting your opponent as some sort of brain-dead rah-rah patriot, so what now? What do you do when B-But MURICA BAD! doesnt win you the argument?

So what does it matter if communism has genocide if capitalism also has genocide?

McMarbles posted...

Well, not by emulating other failed states.

So all you can do is say "not that way!" but offer nothing?

Seems you admit something is bad but like it bad and don't want it to improve?

If that is not true then let's take a moment and think, how can we make it not bad?

Surely you have some kind of answer.

animebop posted...

So what does it matter if communism has genocide if capitalism also has genocide?

Because But the other guy does it too isnt an excuse?

WingsOfGood posted...

So all you can do is say "not that way!" but offer nothing?

Seems you admit something is bad but like it bad and don't want it to improve?

If that is not true then let's take a moment and think, how can we make it not bad?

Surely you have some kind of answer.

Communism!

Because surely this time itll work!

McMarbles posted...

Because But the other guy does it too isnt an excuse?

It is if your interjection is "sure that would fix tons of stuff BUT BUT it had genocide!"

so saying "we already have that too" negates the argument you tried to pull

McMarbles posted...

Communism!

Because surely this time itll work!

So you are incapable of offering even a sliver of coherent thought on how to make something you admit is bad not bad?

interesting

McMarbles posted...

Because But the other guy does it too isnt an excuse?

So you would agree that someone living under communism would be smart to oppose capitalism because capitalism has supported genocide, and someone telling them about Stalin's massacres is just sayin but the other guy does it too!

WingsOfGood posted...

It is if your interjection is "sure that would fix tons of stuff BUT BUT it had genocide!"

so saying "we already have that too" negates the argument you tried to pull

Tell me youve never actually talked to anyone who lived under the Soviet Union without telling me youve never talked to anyone who lived under the Soviet Union.

Because they didn't have a population of slaves to profit off, they subjected their own people to the meat grinders. Nazis tried to avoid doing that entirely. Black people and Natives still have it quite bad... The point is generally things get better over time if you're not always in a state of conflict

McMarbles posted...

Tell me youve never actually talked to anyone who lived under the Soviet Union without telling me youve never talked to anyone who lived under the Soviet Union.

funny that I have actually

but let's not change the subject

you think " B-B-BUT Communism had genocide!"
shouldn't be met with

Bro capitalism does too and pretend like people saying that is a "USA bad!" instead of pointing out how you seem to be fine with capitalism killing people and offer no solutions to improving it while thinking pointing out that communism had it was some kind of gotcha

strange

McMarbles posted...

Tell me youve never actually talked to anyone who lived under the Soviet Union without telling me youve never talked to anyone who lived under the Soviet Union.

I'm sure you've interviewed them extensively lmao. Regardless, stop conflating any economic change from capitalism as building the new USSR

CryoForceOmelet posted...

stop conflating any economic change from capitalism as building the new USSR

but he is ok with

McMarbles posted...

America is bad.

and doesn't want to be challenged to think about it

Accolon posted...

Having an authoritarian Communist state makes no sense, communism is, by definition, stateless.

I think if needs a different name.

While that's pretty true of the authoritarian part, it's only sort of true for the rest. You'll always need some sort of administrative hierarchy to operate the system. Someone has to map out and plan where funding and resources come from and where they are allotted.

Smaller communities (like an actual commune or something) can get away with being much less bureaucratic in that regard because they have a lot less people to take care of and coordinate with. A full-size country would never be able to adequately operate without some form of government administration running, and that administration would come to a standstill if literally every single thing had to be coordinated on directly with every person (or small communal body) in the whole country.

That's the reason realistic solutions are usually some type of sensible middle ground. In the case of a large-scale communist state, that middle ground would likely have to involve having some kind of democratically-elected state and local governments who then create and administer social welfare programs but are also directly beholden to the people at large.

WingsOfGood posted...

So you are incapable of offering even a sliver of coherent thought on how to make something you admit is bad not bad?

interesting

Dont talk to me about coherence when your entire premise runs entirely on Underpants Gnomes logic.

Step 1: Communism
Step 2: ????????
Step 3: Workers Paradise!

And when people point out that the ???????? has historically involved secret police, mass starvation, work camps, and a surprising amount of ethnic cleansing, and that we never seem to actually get to step 3, the response is always, oh, that doesnt count, thats not Real Communism (TM), and besides CAPITALISM DID IT TOO!

McMarbles posted...

Dont talk to me about coherence when your entire premise runs entirely on Underpants Gnomes logic.

Step 1: Communism
Step 2: ????????
Step 3: Workers Paradise!

And when people point out that the ???????? has historically involved secret police, mass starvation, work camps, and a surprising amount of ethnic cleansing, and that we never seem to actually get to step 3, the response is always, oh, that doesnt count, thats not Real Communism (TM), and besides CAPITALISM DID IT TOO!

you are strawmanning again

the argument is based on logic not emotion

we are in late stage capitalism that is turning into fuedalism

logically we know how to fix it but misguided people go "THAT IS COMMUNISM HUURRR DURR!"

then when asked why they have such an ignorant emotional reaction they go "BUT USSR AND GENOCIDE BLAH BLAH!"

then you point them out that Capitalism killed people as well and they go

"WHAT? UHGGH UNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG you can only say AMERICA BAD!!! AAHHHHHHHHH"

then we ask

ok then

how do we fix the issues and problems of Capitalism?

Silence

this literally happened in this thread just now

you have NO SOLUTIONS

all you can do is parrot something boomers propagandized into you as you remain poor

some people don't understand the desire to feel complete, because they already are. let me break it down for you. if your entire life is to be bottom rung, your ideas will never flourish because all your mistakes will teach you very little.

The main issue with communism as a global political force is any time a people start to embrace socialist systems the global capitalist powers refuse to let it exist.

The US alone has interfered with almost all of South American nations that democratically embraced socialism.

The Paris Commune and Revolutionary Catalonia were both beginning to flourish before they were struck down by global super powers.

It's only a matter of time before the US or another Western power removes the leaders in Rojava.

McMarbles posted...

CAPITALISM DID IT TOO!

People are telling you this because you are drawing a false equivalency between advocating economic change and advocating the poor domestic policy of some countries that adopted some economic change in the 1900s.

The fact you're telling us that we must obviously support ethnic cleansing is as absurd as if we told you that you approve of the genocide of Native Americans from the entire continental US because of you being protective of capitalism. This is not "whataboutism", this is us trying to show you that YOU ARE COMMITTING THE WHATABOUTISM.

"I think we should see some economic change"
"UHH WHAT ABOUT THE FIFTY TRILLION VICTIMS OF STALIN"

The capitalist system depends on people filling their home with stuff.

Then that stuff breaks or becomes unfashionable, so the house must be filled again.

What? Don't have a house? Tough shit, says capitalism. Keep making the stuff for the people that do, maybe one day you will (offer subject to change. This is not a guarantee).

Gray_Areas posted...

While that's pretty true of the authoritarian part, it's only sort of true for the rest. You'll always need some sort of administrative hierarchy to operate the system. Someone has to map out and plan where funding and resources come from and where they are allotted.

Smaller communities (like an actual commune or something) can get away with being much less bureaucratic in that regard because they have a lot less people to take care of and coordinate with. A full-size country would never be able to adequately operate without some form of government administration running, and that administration would come to a standstill if literally every single thing had to be coordinated on directly with every person (or small communal body) in the whole country.

That's the reason realistic solutions are usually some type of sensible middle ground. In the case of a large-scale communist state, that middle ground would likely have to involve having some kind of democratically-elected state and local governments who then create and administer social welfare programs but are also directly beholden to the people at large.

You just described the USA since FDR

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Because they didn't have a population of slaves to profit off, they subjected their own people to the meat grinders. Nazis tried to avoid doing that entirely. Black people and Natives still have it quite bad... The point is generally things get better over time if you're not always in a state of conflict

Nah, gonna have to stop you there. "We'll exterminate the people we tell you to hate" was Naziism's top selling point, and it included their own citizens

Rexdragon125 posted...

Nah, gonna have to stop you there. "We'll exterminate the people we tell you to hate" was Naziism's top selling point

Yeah I was actually wondering why they didn't want slaves. But they did have labour camps

McMarbles posted...

Dont talk to me about coherence when your entire premise runs entirely on Underpants Gnomes logic.

Step 1: Communism
Step 2: ????????
Step 3: Workers Paradise!

Also lmao at such a strawman to pull out. You are drinking freely from the kool-aid that nobody interested in alternatives to capitalism has any critical thought. You seem to genuinely believe that
1) Anybody critical of capitalism has never a single day thought about how an alternative might feasibly be implemented
2) Such people have also either never heard of MAO or STALIN or they're death cultists worshipping human sacrifice