Current Events > Pro-level soccer is unwatchable...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ball control is too contingent on bending the rules around fouls instead of just being good at the game.

Nuh-uh, you're just seeing what you want to. It's actually a sophisticated, competitive game that demonstrates good sportsmanship.

Oh, really? I'd love to hear it.

all things, watched long enough, are unwatchable

A lot of people disagree.

No wonder soccer fans riot so much. Shit is so fucking boring.

If i wasted 3 hours watching people flop and pass the ball in a circle only for the game to end 0-0, i would lose my mind.

It does annoy me when the entire planet fawns over certain superteams when really they just get more referee calls in their favor. This happens in other sports, but soccer games are often won by one goal so it makes more of an impact.

Priere posted...

No wonder soccer fans riot so much. Shit is so fucking boring.

If i wasted 3 hours watching people flop and pass the ball in a circle only for the game to end 0-0, i would lose my mind.

Honestly I do find that aspect interesting, although it's not consistent. High-scoring games dilutes the feeling of actually making a critical shot but the fewer points that are exchanged the more meaningful each time it happens becomes.

That said the level of intensity sometimes gets very mellow in soccer so that much I agree on (and whenever it DOES pick up you're bound to see flopping so we come back around to that again).

Priere posted...

No wonder soccer fans riot so much. Shit is so fucking boring.

If i wasted 3 hours watching people flop and pass the ball in a circle only for the game to end 0-0, i would lose my mind.

3 hours?

You're thinking of the other football.

Solid_Sonic posted...

Ball control is too contingent on bending the rules around fouls instead of just being good at the game.

Oh, really? I'd love to hear it.

Yes, the worst part about football is how every single player tries to shit on the referee.

And how terrible the referees are many times.

But for some reason, the FIFA is simply ignoring this.

Why are the players so respectless against the referee?
Why are the tools like the VAR in football implemented so lackluster?
Why is there still no net playtime, with the clock stopping as soon as the game stopped for whatever reason?

Every other sport, including american football, basketball, hockey or tennis are able to do this, yet professional top level football still tries to stay close to a level that could be Springfield vs. Shelbyville.

https://youtu.be/TX8fe6qslS0?si=B33B6KFRJt1xyOnw

'unwatchable'

Karovorak posted...

Yes, the worst part about football is how every single player tries to shit on the referee.

All part of the fun.

And how terrible the referees are many times.

Cursing shit refs will never not be a thing.

But for some reason, the FIFA is simply ignoring this.

They try a few initiatives, but they never really work out.

Why are the players so respectless against the referee?

If they go too far, they get penalised. They have always had a lot of leeway, though.

Why are the tools like the VAR in football implemented so lackluster?

VAR is a failed experiment. TV companies love it though.

Why is there still no net playtime, with the clock stopping as soon as the game stopped for whatever reason?

I don't know why people think this is such a huge issue. In a game that isn't based on set-pieces and plays, is it really so vital that every second be accounted for. When they try and do this, no one likes the result. Neither fans nor players want 10+ minutes of added time at the end of the half.

A bit of time wasting to preserve a lead is all part of the game.

Football isn't a polite, gentlemanly, or sportsmanlike game, on the whole. There's a lot of shithousing that has always been a part of it. That's part of its appeal, and sanitising the game isn't what the fans want.

ai123 posted...

VAR is a failed experiment. TV companies love it though.

Disagree hard with this.
VAR was a resounding success, because it reduced ref's bias in favor of more popular / bigger market teams/nations.

You know how a lots of "new/weaker" nations are beating more established ones?
Many fouls/rule violations/etc etc that used to be given a pass (or if in the grey zone, ruled in favor of a more prominent teams) are now being enforced evenly.

Requiem posted...

Disagree hard with this.
VAR was a resounding success, because it reduced ref's bias in favor of more popular / bigger market teams/nations.

You know how a lots of "new" nations are beating more established ones?
Many "rule breaks" that used to be given a pass (or if in the grey zone, ruled in favor of a more prominent teams) are now being enforced evenly.

VAR works for objective decisions like offside.

But if you think it has removed bias so that big teams aren't getting the benefit, you haven't been watching much.

Only last weekend there was Nathan Ake's goal for Man City vs Fulham.

Check out Rugby instead

It's 5000% better than Soccer or the NFL

And while no sport is perfect they make a concerted effort to respect the referee. You see tiny stick thin refs ordering giant behemoth brickshithouses around and they just take it and say "Yes sir" 99% of the time

Wonderful sport.

Yeah ai123 bragging that being a dick to the Refs is "part of the fun and will always be a thing" demonstrates why soccer sucks as a sport.

It's just overpaid spoiled manchildren cheating and acting like brats without consequence.

For comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7sSz_Vsi8

Team captain sent off the pitch the middle of a championship game for mouthing off at the Ref.

Boom.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah ai123 bragging that being a dick to the Refs is "part of the fun and will always be a thing" demonstrates why soccer sucks as a sport.

It's just overpaid spoiled manchildren cheating and acting like brats without consequence.

For comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7sSz_Vsi8

Team captain sent off the pitch the middle of a championship game for mouthing off at the Ref.

Boom.

As I said, if they take it too far, they are penalised.

I dunno why people think it's such a huge issue.

ai123 posted...

Only last weekend there was Nathan Ake's goal for Man City vs Fulham.

This is the exact bullshit that I mean with "lackluster".

How is it possible that other sports are able to work with a VAR fine most of the time, but football tries to avoid checking a screen as much as possible?

The VAR is supposed to prevent such mistakes, but for some strange reason most leagues including FIFA and UEFA are still going a "the less VAR, the better" policy.

People act like player get away with arguing with the ref. Do you want it like baseball and have players just for shooting a look of disbelief?

ai123 posted...

As I said, if they take it too far, they are penalised.

I dunno why people think it's such a huge issue.

Just compare how american football players are talking to a referee, and how soccer players are talking to a referee.

The line of "If they take it to far" is just way too far from where it should be.

If the referee says it's a penalty (or not) the only answer should be a "yes sir" and not 6 player per team circling around him, trying to "discuss".

EDIT:

Cynrascal posted...

People act like player get away with arguing with the ref. Do you want it like baseball and have players just for shooting a look of disbelief?

Yeah, point taken, going from one extrem to the other isn't the best, but still: Players bulking up and discussing with the referee about clear calls is just silly.

I have to wonder how many people have actually watched a football game in this topic.

Karovorak posted...

Just compare how american football players are talking to a referee, and how soccer players are talking to a referee.

The line of "If they take it to far" is just way too far from where it should be.

If the referee says it's a penalty (or not) the only answer should be a "yes sir" and not 6 player per team circling around him, trying to "discuss".

All I can say is that it doesn't really bother me. Used to it, I suppose.

When it's my team, I am right behind them, I will most likely be yelling abuse too. When it's the opposition, it's disgraceful behaviour, naturally. Send 'em off ref!

Karovorak posted...

This is the exact bullshit that I mean with "lackluster".

How is it possible that other sports are able to work with a VAR fine most of the time, but football tries to avoid checking a screen as much as possible?

The VAR is supposed to prevent such mistakes, but for some strange reason most leagues including FIFA and UEFA are still going a "the less VAR, the better" policy.

They did check.

There is an interpretive element to a lot of the rules: how far was Akanji 'interfering with play'? It's pretty much universally agreed that the VAR officials got a fairly obvious judgement call wrong. For some reason or another.

Perspectives are interesting. I see American style sports and it makes my head spin and my eyes water.

You can't have more than 60 seconds of play without a break or an advertisement.

The games go on far too long with so much fluff. While soccer can end in a dreary 1-1 score, at least it's a solid 90 minutes with very little interruption.

The scores get ludicrously high and arrive at breakneck speed, so none of the touchdowns points or whatever feel especially impactful.

American sports commentary makes my ears bleed. I don't need to hear two dozen statistics about the ball speed or whatever every play.

I do think flopping in soccer is annoying but you guys realise thats not athletes actually getting hurt, it's them trying to draw the referees attention to what is usually a real foul.

The actual play of American football is very exciting and fascinating on a tactical level.

But yeah, I cannot deal with the downtime. And I have tried.

ai123 posted...

They did check.

There is an interpretive element to a lot of the rules: how far was Akanji 'interfering with play'? It's pretty much universally agreed that the VAR officials got a fairly obvious judgement call wrong. For some reason or another.

Yeah, that's the big problem with it.

The VAR only moved the line of discussion.

The VAR is only allowed to be active if it was "obviously wrong". If the VAR says it was "obvious wrong" he is allowed to tell the referee on the field, and then the referee on the field can still judge however he wants.

And every call of the VAR is affecting their referee raiting.

The VAR has a much higher hurdle to get active and still has no power to decide anything at all. He can even say the referee on the field "you are wrong, take a look at the screen" and the referee doesn't even have to take a look, he can simply say "nah, I know what I saw".

If it's such a big problem, just put a 2nd referee behind the screen, and allow them to be active as soon as both decide so unanimously. Enforcing vague rules with vague "obiously wrong" is just asking for troubles, and the reason why the VAR fails so much.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah ai123 bragging that being a dick to the Refs is "part of the fun and will always be a thing" demonstrates why soccer sucks as a sport.

It's just overpaid spoiled manchildren cheating and acting like brats without consequence.

For comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7sSz_Vsi8

Team captain sent off the pitch the middle of a championship game for mouthing off at the Ref.

Boom.

I'm a fan of American football. Soccer doesn't do it for me, but I could see myself getting into rugby. I don't know the first thing about it though. What's happening here? The ref tells the one guy to chill. Then the guy kicks the ball directly out of bounds (I think?), which leads to the big pile. After the pile moves a bit, the whistle blows and the ref is like fuck you get out.

If you think the best football teams are the best because they get lucky with calls instead of actually being good you haven't watched enough of it.

The best teams dont need good calls, they win whether they get favourable or unfavourable ones. This is even more the case in competitions with a greater focus on consistency like leagues

AloneIBreak posted...

I'm a fan of American football. Soccer doesn't do it for me, but I could see myself getting into rugby. I don't know the first thing about it though. What's happening here? The ref tells the one guy to chill. Then the guy kicks the ball directly out of bounds (I think?), which leads to the big pile. After the pile moves a bit, the whistle blows and the ref is like fuck you get out.

I don't know anything about American football but I can describe rugby.

Possession is everything in rugby. The lineout (when opposing teams line up and a guy throws it in and they jump up) is a chance to win possession from the other team. Regardless of what happens, it usually ends in what's called a scrum - when everyone is basically wrestling to win ground.

So that big pileup (scrum) is another way to win possession - both teams are basically performing the opposite of a tug of war, where they are trying to push the other team backwards so much that the ball underneath can be won.

The reason the ref stops it is usually because something illegal happened in the scrum - it turned too much, someone fell over, the ball was kicked out of play, etc.

The other key bit is that you are not allowed to throw the ball forward to another team mate. When passing, the ball must always travel slightly less than parallel or backwards. That's why you always see rugby players passing it out from one player to the next in a long line. If you want to move it forwards, you have to kick it. Whoever has possession of the ball must be the front-most player on that time (so you can't do a quarterback throw to someone way down the field like in football).

So you have the fronts (the big heavy dudes who handle the scrum), and the backs (the lighter faster dudes who handle the running). That's basically it.

AloneIBreak posted...

I'm a fan of American football. Soccer doesn't do it for me, but I could see myself getting into rugby. I don't know the first thing about it though. What's happening here? The ref tells the one guy to chill. Then the guy kicks the ball directly out of bounds (I think?), which leads to the big pile. After the pile moves a bit, the whistle blows and the ref is like fuck you get out.

I was going to try and explain, about things like kicking into touch and scrums (aka big piles), but then I realised I had typed two paragraphs which would not have made anything any clearer to a novice.

I'll leave it to UnfairRepresent.

Amateur football/soccer is essentially the same, except with less skill and more aggressive behavior from people who are absolutely certain they have what it takes to be the next Messi/Ronaldo/Pele/Maradona

Priere posted...

If i wasted 3 hours

Even with two OT periods no soccer game has ever lasted 3 hours.

AloneIBreak posted...

I'm a fan of American football. Soccer doesn't do it for me, but I could see myself getting into rugby. I don't know the first thing about it though. What's happening here? The ref tells the one guy to chill. Then the guy kicks the ball directly out of bounds (I think?), which leads to the big pile. After the pile moves a bit, the whistle blows and the ref is like fuck you get out.

Pretty much

It's a high stakes championship match, everyone is ampted up. The Captain of one of the teams is acting like a hot head, the ref tells him to chill.

They're right at the end of the first half but play has to restart and then stop to end the half. Instead the team just boots the ball off the pitch despite being warned not to by the ref.

So they have a scum, in the scrum the ball is turned over to the other team and because of this turn of events the Captain calls the ref a "fucking cheat!" so the ref sends him off.

Rugby is like Inverted Football. You can't throw the ball forward, only backwards. And it's 80% live play and 20% set pieces

pinky0926 posted...

So that big pileup (scrum) is another way to win possession - both teams are basically performing the opposite of a tug of war, where they are trying to push the other team backwards so much that the ball underneath can be won.

The reason the ref stops it is usually because something illegal happened in the scrum - it turned too much, someone fell over, the ball was kicked out of play, etc.

Is the ball just loose at the bottom of the pile?

The other key bit is that you are not allowed to throw the ball forward to another team mate. When passing, the ball must always travel slightly less than parallel or backwards.

American football has a rule analogous to this. Makes sense.

That's why you always see rugby players passing it out from one player to the next in a long line. If you want to move it forwards, you have to kick it. Whoever has possession of the ball must be the front-most player on that time (so you can't do a quarterback throw to someone way down the field like in football).

So the forward pass is sort of replaced with the forward kick, but there is no one downfield waiting to catch it. If someone kicks it downfield, is it a free ball and whoever gets it maintains possession at the spot the ball is picked up?

AloneIBreak posted...

So the forward pass is sort of replaced with the forward kick, but there is no one downfield waiting to catch it. If someone kicks it downfield, is it a free ball and whoever gets it maintains possession at the spot the ball is picked up?

yes

AloneIBreak posted...

Is the ball just loose at the bottom of the pile?

Yes

The ball is rolled in by whatever team has the Scum

In theory they're supposed to roll the ball in straight down the middle but in reality they never do and no one cares

On the subject of flopping, I do know that blatant flopping will get you a yellow card foul in the Premier League. Two yellow cards on one player equals ejection and one less player.

The most watched sport in the world is unwatchable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIajBbbtgbs

Cynrascal posted...

On the subject of flopping, I do know that blatant flopping will get you a yellow card foul in the Premier League. Two yellow cards on one player equals ejection and one less player.

Step in the right direction but that does rely on the ref being very observant of not just what's happening at the ball but around it as well.

I enjoy it very much

Cynrascal posted...

On the subject of flopping, I do know that blatant flopping will get you a yellow card foul in the Premier League. Two yellow cards on one player equals ejection and one less player.

I'm of the opinion 100% of flops should result in the player being carted off the field due to "injury" and not be allowed back on the field for the rest of the game for their "safety." If they wanna act like their shin is shattered, fine, but then they can't just get back up and keep playing.

Cynrascal posted...

On the subject of flopping, I do know that blatant flopping will get you a yellow card foul in the Premier League. Two yellow cards on one player equals ejection and one less player.

If a player is fouled, but does not hit the deck, there's a good chance the ref won't see the foul and award the free kick. It's pretty common in a game to see incidences where a player loses out on getting a penalty because they decided to stay on their feet and try and score.

It's another one of those rules that are down to interpretation: to get a foul, the ref has to think the contact was 'sufficient' to impede the player.

Of course, once you do go down, you might as well milk it for a rest, a chance for your team to get tactical instruction, and maybe get the opposing player a yellow card so that they are wary of tackling for the rest of the game.

s0nicfan posted...

I'm of the opinion 100% of flops should result in the player being carted off the field due to "injury" and not be allowed back on the field for the rest of the game for their "safety." If they wanna act like their shin is shattered, fine, but then they can't just get back up and keep playing.

Flopping just takes the form of "that guy tripped me DELIBERATELY," or "OW, MY FACE. He needs to learn to keep his hands to himself! Ball, please." It's not an injury gambit, just a minor scuff that forces a foul as soon as the defending player gets frustrated that their attempt at obtaining ball control by playing the game isn't working.

s0nicfan posted...

I'm of the opinion 100% of flops should result in the player being carted off the field due to "injury" and not be allowed back on the field for the rest of the game for their "safety." If they wanna act like their shin is shattered, fine, but then they can't just get back up and keep playing.

If you're caught flopping you get red carded. If the ref thinks you're just wasting time (even if not flopping) you get yellow carded.

99% of the time a "flop" happens there's either a legitimate foul and the player is exaggerating to get noticed or is just trying to take a ten second rest on the ground.