Current Events > I started playing some old Thief games (ongoing spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Shotgunnova posted...

but it's fun to imagine it.

lol I never thought of it that way and now I'm just picturing it cartoon style

Okay on Mission 2 and the coolest thing this mod did so far is remove the transitions between areas. Everything's connected now and it's wild.

Huh, mine doesn't do that. Maybe I left it it in, just to see how the normal experience would be. It's not as distracting as I thought it'd be.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/8/4/AABhrNAAE-vw.jpg

CyricZ posted...

Okay on Mission 2 and the coolest thing this mod did so far is remove the transitions between areas. Everything's connected now and it's wild.

It was definitely something I wished I had added the mod to long ago but just only did this year lol. It really improves the game by such a margin.

Okay it seems all City areas still have transitions, but the Rutherford Castle did not. Normally there's a transition point in that long hallway in the middle.

Unless, I guess, you didn't turn it on.

No, I didn't have any transitions in the castle either.

Yeah it just seems that transitions are eliminated in the actual missions.

Finished St. Edgar's Eve. The transition there is the door to the Factory, and also the exit back out of the Factory on the second floor.

I'll try to play a bit today. Been wasting some time since I've been reading and watching (or attempting to) the World Series.

Okay, doing some docks stuff. Got my Hammerite status up to neutral, so that's good. Also found out that Garrett apparently can't swim anymore, or at least the water of the bay is verboten. Honestly, if they explained it with "Garrett's getting too old!" or something, I'd probably buy it. Just funny to think how critical underwater exploration was to the previous games and then this happens.

Did the zombie plague ship and got to the pirate island. Currently looting this hole for all she's worth. Kinda feel bad for the driven-insane widow, so I'm gonna find that liquor for her -- maybe I'll get a sizeable tip like that one guy wrote in a note.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/1/3/AABhrNAAE_BZ.jpg

Forgot to note that I finished the Pagan Tunnels yesterday.

Even with the combined areas, the game still feels so small. >_>

I'm really getting the feeling that I want to redo my guide, though.

Starting the Moira Mansion.

Love Havok Physics. Love bonking a guard, having them fall to their knees, then arch their back and just kinda have their upper body bob up and down in the air like they're some kind of sapling.

EDIT: REALLY love bonking someone and have them fall onto a sword previously dropped by another guard and you hear the *squelch* sound of getting hit by a sword. Talk about falling the wrong way, damn.

I will always praise Thief Deadly Shadows as my favorite Thief game and one of the best stealth - and horror (Shalebridge Cradle) - experiences you can have. I look forward to reading what you think of the Cradle. Best played at night with heaphones on ;)

Yeah, KO-ing guards leaves them splayed in all kinds of random positions normally reserved for inflatable tube men. Speaking of physics, I like how the weapons dropped by enemies actually make sound if you (or they) aren't paying attention to walking spaces. Haven't really tested whether they're quieter on carpet or anything -- randomly playing Monster Rancher DS at the moment, lol -- but so far I rather like this game's improvements from the previous few.

On a random note, I did check if I had Thief (reboot) available to play on PS4, but it was a no-go. I could check on PS3, though. I've definitely played it somewhere and don't have it physically.

LoveLikeJazz posted...

I will always praise Thief Deadly Shadows as my favorite Thief game and one of the best stealth - and horror (Shalebridge Cradle) - experiences you can have. I look forward to reading what you think of the Cradle. Best played at night with heaphones on ;)

I've heard people talk it up -- maybe in a "best stealth levels" conversation at some point -- so I'm curious how good it'll be. I feel like an NPC already name-dropped it earlier...an orphanage, perhaps? I swear, running a video game orphanage is one of the roughest rackets.

Shotgunnova posted...

On a random note, I did check if I had Thief (reboot) available to play on PS4, but it was a no-go. I could check on PS3, though. I've definitely played it somewhere and don't have it physically.

Did you get it on PC? That's where I have mine.

Thief 4 is... not one I plan to go back to.

Nah the reboot was awful. Such a shame for how long I hoped and prayed for that. When it was revealed I was so hyped and by the time it launched I didn't even want to play it, especially because Garrett's original voice actor (Stephen Russell) was no longer involved. He also voiced a lot of other guards and townsfolk and he was sorely missed in the reboot. I ended up buying it for like $7 one day a year or two later and never even finished it. There was one level, I think like the fifth one, which was a blatant ripoff of the Shalebridge Cradle, and it didn't come anywhere close to hitting its mark.

I finally gave it the proper college try like three years ago. There's some elements of a good game in there, but it's mired under all the "triple A" design bits.

Garret has animations for grabbing things to steal. That seems so pointless to me. It's just like three seconds, but it completely breaks my flow. I'm so much more of a fan of just it booping into my sack as I clean the place out.

Also there's a brothel in the game with actual naked women for no real reason. It just connects to a plot-important "old place" through secret passages.

Also people don't say "taff". They say "fuck".

Also the main antagonist isn't interesting. He's just an asshole. Truart despite being a twit and a thorn at least had some silly bits to him. Karras was nuts but interesting in his madness. Constantine was just a class act all the way.

Oh, I didn't enjoy the reboot either, but I wanted to try it again having played the earlier games. I'd recognize rip-off levels, Garrett having a new VA, winks and nods to old mechanics/characters, etc. -- all the stuff I had no idea about last time. I don't have it on Steam, so it must be PS3 or 360.

But yes, removing "taff" seems lame. Those gorram frelling taffers!

I honestly don't remember any good Easter eggs, but that could be me blocking the game out of my mind lol

My biggest issue, one I couldn't look past even if I tried, was that you couldn't outrun the guards and they would literally kill you with stones if they saw you hiding up high somewhere. My favorite thing to do in the other Thief games was mess with the guards, and they made that practically impossible to do in the reboot.

No the Easter Eggs are there. You can tell the game wanted to be actual Thief 4 with the way the story is structured.

I imagine if they had their druthers it would have been ten or so years after Deadly Shadows, but someone demanded reboot and instead it's soft reboot hundreds of years in the future where the names are all the same.

One click for the Kurshoks who can't handle my style. Got the Glyph Key and the Crown.

Okay, after some dawdling, I finally did the pirate mansion. Once again, I got stuck on 89% loot -- I swear, the game really loves doing this to me. Eventually found a goblet on a high kitchen display case to finish things off. Even gave the widow some wine from there...she's gonna need it in the morning when she finds that I ransacked it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/9/1/AABhrNAAE_bn.jpg

Gonna go to the forbidden library when I'm back -- already found the secret floor button. If they didn't want me to explore, they shouldn't have made it that easy.

"Secret floor button" is literally a raised pressure plate about four feet square directly in front of a bookcase I forgot about it and almost literally tripped over it.

Tangential, but I appreciate how, given the city areas, you have to procure your own supplies, particularly maps for the areas you explore.

Finished Mission 7!

I think the big question is *when* I'm going to redo my guide for this game. I'm starting up my LAD:Gaiden guide in a week. >_>

But if I don't start my update now I'm going to forget all the stuff I recalled in this playthrough of TDS. >_<

Finished the forbidden library excursion (that little girl translator is a tattletale!) and started doing the Kushok palace caves. I paid a bit more attention to the nooks and crannies this time, but still wound up with only 70% loot found by the end. Gotta go back for another sweep.

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Took awhile, but I finally got to 90% on the dot. Was missing a rock in the first cave, another near the theater, and a third in the alcove where the Kurshok tapestry was. I prefer my loot to be nice and shiny on tables and chairs, not tossed in the lightless filth, so hopefully the next several missions are a bit more in that vein. Gotta go sabotage a clock tower now...hopefully no scissors-wielding maniacs are hiding there.

Shotgunnova posted...

hopefully no scissors-wielding maniacs are hiding there.

Ah ha ha see what you did there.

Anyway the Clocktower has one of the stupidest loot placements in the game, but it's small so you'll be able to get 90% without it.

Just when you get to an area where Garrett comments on how far down it goes ("Down is always easier than up") you make sure you have a good 60% of the loot, as there's only like 30% down below and it's a pain and a half to climb back up that room.

Hmm, I'll bear that in mind. I think the objective overview said the point of ingress was a high-up pipe; I was initially thinking I'd go in the front door after hammering some Hammers. No big deal, though I'm guessing my trespassing supersedes all the relations I cultivated with the faction earlier. "I shot explosive bugs for you!" cried Garrett, his bitter heart scalded by the rust cult's betrayal.

I liked the Clocktower. I think the next one is the Cradle :))

LoveLikeJazz posted...

I think the next one is the Cradle :))

Incorrect.

CyricZ posted...

Incorrect.

Alright.

Found my way into the clock tower. Metal walkways ain't no thang like they were back at the Hammerite prison in Thief 1. Been looking upwards a lot and seeing if there's any walkways to climb onto, but no dice so far.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5fac14ff.jpg

Yeah you can literally crouch walk with no slowdown modifier and metal floors are no problem.

Finished Mission 8!

F-f-f-f-finished Mission 9

Wish I'd brought more gas arrows for this long vertical shaft where mages and stuff are standing around, doing nothing. Might have to use some of my potions since I've been at two health at least since the pagan cave mission, haha. (You'd think escaping back to Garrett's flat would be a free heal, but nooooo.)

And all done! Now that I got Thief out of my system, maybe I can get back to some newer games lol. >_>

After a day or two off, I finally put my nose to the grindstone and finished the clocktower level. Didn't mean to topple it like a Jenga tower, but danger is my middle name. Or Clarence... But definitely one of those two. The Keeper dude railroaded me in some sham trial, and the other jackasses just went along with it, so now I'm back in the Old Quarter, singing the sneak-thief blues and dodging creepy glyph-enhanced assassins. Anything's better than that old Hammerite cathedral from earlier games, though.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/fc3f65c4.jpg
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One thing I do like about Deadly Shadows is that shit can just go down right on the street. It adds an interesting level to the stealth if you have to make your way around or through an actual melee on the streets.

Climbing is nice, but I miss vine arrows. No way should Garrett's arsenal have shrunk since the last game. Would solve some of the street-level troubles...although it is fun to run into an alley, climb a wall while the other guy can't do anything, then have do their "I-I-I'm gonna get help and you'll pay!" routine. On the other hand, guards in previous games may have been too well equipped for all situations -- I feel like most had bows as secondary weapons after the early levels.

Dude literally killed a dude in my room. Dude, not cool.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/34716bb1.jpg

Orland locked down every glyph in the city...and yet, forgot to close a window right above the main entrance. I was hoping I could get onto the clocktower spire that fell over and hop into his window that way, but I had to go the long way. Onto the next mission! Since the Keepers are my erstwhile allies, I won't kill any, even though the glyph-addled ones could probably use a five-story fall.

So it wasn't really Orland who was betraying everyone, but Caduca who was feeding false prophecies? At least that's how it seems for now. If that old bag raising gargoyles ain't her, it must be someone new. Seems weird that anyone would mistake a friggin' statue for her dead body, but eh well.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6552b4da.jpg

Now that I think about it, in the cinematic where she was "killed," her finger cracked like rock or something. Must be a little hint at what's going on.

Hmm, maybe Caduca really did die and the old lady was really Drept's vaunted hag, straight out of folklore. Beat the Keeper Compound mission finally, too, after missing the scales from the Elder Library. Those nasty hobbitses stuck it in a high-up alcove.

Anyway, met Drept in Auldale and now it's time to visit the Cradle. It's such a nice orphanage-cum-asylum...why would it ever be left abandoned? It's so cheery!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7d8fc59e.jpg

Yeah Caduca's death is weird. What you see in the cutscene implies some element of decay, as some of the flesh on her hand is stripped away showing naked bone.

But in the mission she's just a complete stone statue.

It's never properly explained.

Anyway, have fun with that next one.

Yeah Shalebridge Cradle!

Welp, beat the Cradle. In fact, I explored so thoroughly, I got 100% loot -- first time just playing casually that it's happened. Doubly nice since I didn't go get the map at Fort Ironwood. Now that it's over, though, I went down to the Hammers' place and found the secret grave, so as Orland was doing his ceremony, the little girl revealed herself to be the evil abomination. She makes Karras look like an Eagle Scout, haha...possible death count nonwithstanding.

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The Cradle was good, but the part where you're hearing clanging and all sorts of weird SFX is way spookier than when you finally meet some zombies and you can just one-shot 'em with backstabs. Same for the ghosts of asylums past, which even explode into a cloud of dust/sand (why????) when they die. But it's a small complaint.

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but I'd recommend The Dark Mod. It's basically Thief using the Doom 3 engine with only fan made mods.
https://www.thedarkmod.com/main/

While it definitely is a "whole package" achievement, I really think the best aspect of the Cradle is the sound design.

In Thief you're constantly listening for sounds indicating where enemies are what they're doing and the Cradle fucks with you on that so heavily. Like it's not outright lying to you; it won't create sounds in spaces where things actually aren't. It's just that the ambient sounds seem like they could exist in the space somewhere, and it requires you to reorient yourself so you know that it's all "in your head" and not directional.

But also the lighting kept so dim. Also the doors are so damn loud.

Also the entire first half of the area is completely free of enemies and you're still massively tense in it.

And then when you do run up against enemies they are not normal in any respect. You either avoid them, backstab them and risk them standing back up on you, or waste precious resources making sure they fall and cannot get back up, and then you're still tense because you can't pick up their bodies so you can't be 100% sure they're not going to get back up.

The Asylum Staff in the memory aren't as bad, but you're in a defenseless position when you first find them by using a "toy" to go back. It's only once you're in "as yourself" can you actually beat them up, and even then, you may not even think to try to do so since you've spent the entire mission on edge about resources and proper sneaking.

The second best mission in the Thief series (after Life of the Party in 2) and one of the top "horror missions" of all time.

Totally agree the first half of the Cradle is better than the second half. I didn't know how easily you could kill the "puppets" my first playthrough (pretty sure a flashbang instakills them) so I mostly left them alive and that added a lot of tension to that area. But the first part where you keep seeing things move and hearing doors open and knocks and such... masterful sound design and atmosphere.

It's disappointing in a way, when you learn there's zero threat in that first half, because any future playthroughs feel a lot less scary lol but it also adds to the appreciation that they created such a spooky vibe without any actual threat.

Glad you liked it

Yeah, the Cradle and Angelwatch definitely stand out among all missions for their scope and level design. It's evident in retrospect that Dishonored 2 took a few tips from the Cradle mission to make their own fantastic seventh mission, which stands out among all Dishonored levels. (Not surprising to see any overlap among those franchises, though, given the similarities.)

But yeah, not being able to stab the hired help kinda sucked at first, especially since the first toy I found was the sharpened silverware, haha. Another annoying thing was when you first try to complete the level, the basement jail cage opened on its own EVERY time I did it, right in front of the ghost guard, who aggroed immediately. I had to make a break for the ladder and barely got up, haha. Jumping out the staff tower's window by hopping on their meeting table was a little harrowing, too.

I wish they had kept the zombie noises from earlier Thief games, though. Now THOSE zombies knew how to reveal their presence and make you annoyed as hell.

Momatty posted...

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but I'd recommend The Dark Mod. It's basically Thief using the Doom 3 engine with only fan made mods.
https://www.thedarkmod.com/main/

Ehh, I'm a bit Thiefed out at the moment. I could definitely see myself replaying Deadly Shadows to do a guide, though, if I felt up to it. Thief in a Doom engine does sound pretty good, though...