Current Events > If a "power" drove villains to be good: would it be just?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The opposite of the cliche of a power or object driving people insane/evil.

An object/power can drive villains good. Is this ok?

there have been books written about how too much goodness and morality can turn into a negative. Most notably, the Dragonlance books by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

it features a church that has too much dogma, too much unrealistic expectations of its members, and some people rebel against the church

similar things have happened with The Roman Catholic Church. For example, the requirement of celibacy has sometimes had the opposite effect of causing sexual abuse

another example that I would offer is the onerous laws of the nation Singapore, where the crime of chewing gum can get your butt caned harshly

why not

cjsdowg posted...

why not

Perhaps you see it as them not being themselves and being forced against their will despite them doing good....

stripping ppl of free will is never good

Meh, would it matter in a practical sense?

Like if rich person person donated to a charity to get some taxes waved, and score brownie points at the same time... would the sole discussion of their "morality" be more important than that the charity got helped?

Better then doing "bad" things for power anyway. Giving a choice. Sometimes anyway.

Free will is malleable. Its the nurture half of nature vs. nurture. Whos to say that a power like this is any more brainwashing than the environment one grows up in?

LordMarshal posted...

Perhaps you see it as them not being themselves and being forced against their will despite them doing good....

The trick is what is the level of awareness that they have. If they known they are being forced to do good, or do they think they want to do good.

hexa posted...

there have been books written about how too much goodness and morality can turn into a negative.

Meh, the argument could be made they weren't all that "moral" or "good."

hexa posted...

too much dogma, too much unrealistic expectations of its members,

This is more touching on the issue... or it's more accurate.

Like the person that went crazy and did evil crap these villains are going against their normal will and feel obligated or forced to do good.

Its like the "power" compels them to do well and they go with it.

Some may change their ways and do it naturally while others dont.

Are you ok with someone being "forced" to do good things against their nature?

LordMarshal posted...

Are you ok with someone being "forced" to do good things against their nature?

It's a thing that happens, in terms of murderers/rapists, or they are not allowed to be themselves... don't see much of a difference.

"Live and let live...."

"Your freedom ends where mine begins..."

It's complicated.

And one that's been abused in different media for years, to various effect.

I think the only part I agree with on a power or something forcing a villain to do good is if said villain was a mass-murdering asshole with a huge body count that would only increase if they were kept-around as-is (as you know most prisons in comics and more fantastical stories are made of cardboard).

I watched a show called The Food That Built America. It features the origins of food titans like McDonalds and Cola-Cola. One I will mention for this topic is Heinz.

The creator of Heinz had an issue with competitors stealing his ideas like displaying food in clear glass bottles and mock recipes that imitated his.

He also knew that his competition often used things like formaldehyde and other hazardous chemicals that would not fly today.

He decided by doing the right thing and make food safer for us all, he would stand to crush his competiton and make a killing in the process.

That's part of the reason the Pure Food and Drug Act was passed.

Virtually every of Heinz's competitors were now criminals and closed down by this new law.

That's how Heinz became what's it known to be today. Because doing the right thing was profitable.

Many people are being forced to be good against their nature due to the threat of laws putting them in jail

I watched a show called The Food That Built America. It features the origins of food titans like McDonalds and Cola-Cola. One I will mention for this topic is Heinz.

The creator of Heinz had an issue with competitors stealing his ideas like displaying food in clear glass bottles and mock recipes that imitated his.

He also knew that his competition often used things like formaldehyde and other hazardous chemicals that would not fly today.

He decided by doing the right thing and make food safer for us all, he would stand to crush his competiton and make a killing in the process.

That's part of the reason the Pure Food and Drug Act was passed.

Virtually every of Heinz's competitors were now criminals and closed down by this new law.

That's how Heinz became what's it known to be today. Because doing the right thing was profitable.

Interesting if true. Didn't know that. Neat little fact.

As in, yeah, this stuff can be interesting to think about.

Raikuro posted...

Many people are being forced to be good against their nature due to the threat of laws putting them in jail

That's a rather cynical take.

If that was really the case, we wouldn't have anything remotely close to a decent level of civilization as we know of it, whether tribal or modern.

hexa posted...

there have been books written about how too much goodness and morality can turn into a negative. Most notably, the Dragonlance books by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

it features a church that has too much dogma, too much unrealistic expectations of its members, and some people rebel against the church

similar things have happened with The Roman Catholic Church. For example, the requirement of celibacy has sometimes had the opposite effect of causing sexual abuse

another example that I would offer is the onerous laws of the nation Singapore, where the crime of chewing gum can get your butt caned harshly

No one ever said religion was good tho

Returning_CEmen posted...

No one ever said religion was good tho

Oh they have, and one can argue it can be in some cases.

Like with a lot of things, it depends. Case by case.

BombermanGold posted...

That's a rather cynical take.

If that was really the case, we wouldn't have anything remotely close to a decent level of civilization as we know of it, whether tribal or modern.

Many isn't most, and laws against stuff like monopolies or dumping toxic waste most certainly prevent carelessly evil deeds. It's only cynical if you think evil is limited to something extreme like rape or murder or whatever.

I think I've read a demon lord becomes a good king after he overthrow the human king and learn how to govern properly.
Different kind of "power" tho.

The movie "A Clockwork Orange" deals with this topic.

https://youtu.be/SC-IwKQsTh0?si=oecFqdmXG9feqaJk

Foricng it on them would be unjust. If they searched for the power and obtained it, maybe we shouldn't stop them

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yaaE4bCf1UU

Tom_Joad posted...

The movie "A Clockwork Orange" deals with this topic.

https://youtu.be/SC-IwKQsTh0?si=oecFqdmXG9feqaJk

Came in to say this. Obviously the book does as well and I find the ending better. The movie is amazing for what is does visually but I think the message is given better in the book. It's a little difficult to read because of the slang, though.