Board 8 > Most Evil Fictional Character: Carnage vs. Dolores Umbridge

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Welcome to the 2023 edition of Most Evil Fictional Character, a single-elimination tournament to determine the most evil fictional character of all time!

Here's the bracket:

https://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=477621&tclass=

And here's the discussion topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80568652

And here are the rules:

-First and foremost, YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT. The reason for this is that these topics encourage a lot of discussion and debate, and it helps me to distinguish a vote from simple discussion if all votes are bolded. So, I state again, ALL VOTES MUST BE BOLDED FOR THEM TO COUNT. I reserve the right to be lenient in early topics if people just aren't getting it, but for the most part, IF YOUR VOTE ISN'T BOLDED, IT WON'T COUNT.

-You must vote for which of the two characters you honestly believe to be the more evil of the two. You can determine this via any method you like, use your own morals and judgement, read all the arguments made to determine your choice, or however you choose to make your pick, but you must only vote for the one you truly believe is the most evil. This isn't a death battle, or a popularity contest. You're voting ONLY for the most evil character out of the two choices presented.

-While on that subject, remember that because this isn't a death battle or a fighting tournament, do your absolute best to consider the two characters as if their power levels were equal (either the weaker character brought up to the level of the strongest, or vice versa, or both if you want to consider both possibilities). Therefore, just because, for example, one of the characters blew up a planet and the other one merely kicked a puppy, doesn't necessarily mean the planet killer is more evil than the puppy kicker. Consider the characters as if they have the exact same capabilities and what they might do in that scenario.

-You can make any arguments, debates, etc. you want in this topic. Discussion is STRONGLY encouraged, a fun debate about which of the two characters is most evil is exactly what these topics are for. Just don't make it personal, no insults or flaming, keep things civil even if you disagree. Also, no vote rallying, if you want to encourage people to vote for your character you need to at least make some semblance of an argument as to why, even if it's just "Character X did (really dastardly thing), I can't believe no one's voting for them!"

-Voting will continue for exactly 24 hours after the post is made. If there's a tie, there will be a new 24 hour topic. This will continue indefinitely until a winner is determined.

-YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT.

-

The following write-ups will contain untagged SPOILERS for the Spider-Man media franchise (comics, films, etc.) and the Harry Potter books and films.

CARNAGE

Carnage is a major antagonist and enemy of Spider-Man and also the primary archenemy of Eddie Brock's Venom.

Carnage belongs to a race of amorphous parasitic extraterrestrial organisms known as Symbiotes, which form a symbiotic bond with their hosts and give them super-human abilities. Originating as an offspring of Venom, Carnage is much more powerful than its parent symbiote because of the symbiotes' biology, and is in many ways a darker version of him. Like Venom, Carnage has had multiple hosts over the years, but its most infamous one remains its first killer Cletus Kasady, whose sadistic personality perfectly matches that of the symbiote. The Venom symbiote had been about to spawn as a response to Thanos seeking the Infinity Gems, and left its offspring - the 999th of its lineage - behind. The newborn symbiote sought out the nearest available host, latching onto Kasady and entering into his body through a cut on his hand, where it amalgamated with his blood. Transformed into a black-and-red monster, Kasady dubbed himself "Carnage" and went on a months-long killing spree, leaving the message "Carnage Rules" written in blood at the scene of each murder he committed. Unlike its parent, the Carnage symbiote is both submissive and fiercely loyal to its host, to the point of usually operating as little more than an extension of Cletus Kasady's body and will. However, it possesses a mind of its own, occasionally bickering with Cletus on the rare occasions they disagree. It is utterly devoted to Cletus and his nihilistic ideology, to the point that when it is bonded to someone other than him it will forcibly take control of its new host and often forces Cletus' memories onto them as a form of psychological torture. The symbiote has also coaxed Cletus into embarking on megalomaniacal ventures, such as his attempted conquest of Doverton and the Microverse. Due to Cletus - a diagnosed sociopathic spree killer - being its first host, the symbiote possesses unprecedented bloodlust and gleefully revels in killing everything it encounters. However, Norman Osborn posits that it has grown bored with wholesale slaughter and when he offers to teach it more nuanced ways of inflicting suffering and death the symbiote eagerly accepts.

vs.

DOLORES UMBRIDGE

Dolores Umbridge is a major antagonist in the Harry Potter book and film series.

The Ministry of Magic appointed Umbridge as the new Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts to allow the Ministry to monitor the activities within Hogwarts, and particularly the Headmaster Albus Dumbledore. Fudge had an irrational belief that Dumbledore was attempting to overthrow his position as Minister and was using the students to do so. As a result, Umbridge refused to teach any sort of martial magic and saw her return to the school as an opportunity to gain power over the people who had refused to give her any positions of responsibility during her schooling. Harry's constant objections in Umbridge's class due to his being present at Voldemort's return and witnessing the murder of Cedric Diggory led him to a detention with Umbridge. She forced him to write "I must not tell lies" with a cursed quill that scarred the phrase into his hand permanently. After Voldemort's takeover of the Ministry of Magic, Umbridge oversaw the registration and persecution of Muggle-born witches and wizards, sometimes referred to as mudbloods, under the Muggle-Born Registration Commission. In her position, Umbridge conducted biased trials that subjected Muggle-born witches and wizards to dementors and have them sent to Azkaban prison for "stealing magic from real witches and wizards". Umbridge is depicted in the novels as being an evil, cruel, authoritarian, bigoted and despicable woman who represented the worst of political power, under a saccharine image filled with kittens, fluff, and girlishness. She is implied to be sadistic and overwhelmingly corrupt, to the point of finding joy in torturing students.Umbridge is also depicted to be a prejudiced person, despising half-breeds and Muggle-born witches and wizards to the point of firing Hagrid due to his half-giant birth status. She displayed her intolerance to the centaur Firenze, shouting racial insults towards the herd of centaurs that confronted her in the Forbidden Forest. Umbridge was a "pure-blood supremacist" and attempted to mask her half-blood status, often lambasting her Muggle mother and Squib younger brother. Dolores Umbridge was eventually imprisoned in Azkaban due to her crimes against Muggle-borns during her interrogations, as not everyone she interrogated and tortured survived.

Umbridge

Carnage I think is more evil although I despise Umbridge much more

Carnage

I'm inclined to go with Umbridge because of Carnage growing bored in the write-up. Without Norman Osborn's involvement, Carnage might have stopped killing out of boredom. Granted, it's a long shot at redemption, but Umbridge doesn't even get that. There was also a time in the comics where Carnage's morality was inverted and he tried to be a hero. He wasn't very good at it, but he did sacrifice his life to contain a bomb blast.

umbridge. it doesn't help that she stands in opposition of literal children. ok, literal children with magic, but they're still kids! oh, and don't get me started on the racism ...

Umbridge

I almost voted the other way, but then I remembered one thing: Umbridge sent a Dementor after Harry, and at the time it was not common knowledge that Harry could produce a patronus. So she essentially sent a creature that sucks your soul out and gives you a fate worse than death after a fifteen year old boy who she hasn't met simply because he said that Voldemort had returned. She wasn't doing it out of fear, she did it of her own accord. She may not have been a Death Eater, but she might as well have been.

Umbridge

The fact that she wasn't a Death Eater made it even worse.

alright I'm not the biggest potterhead but it seems very silly to me that Umbridge, as shitty and evil as she is, is beating a literal serial killer

whatever umbridge did I am sure Carnage would do it too but way worse

make Carnage a hogwarts teacher and see what happens

ZenOfThunder posted...

alright I'm not the biggest potterhead but it seems very silly to me that Umbridge, as shitty and evil as she is, is beating a literal serial killer

whatever umbridge did I am sure Carnage would do it too but way worse

make Carnage a hogwarts teacher and see what happens

Unbridge tortured children. Literally. For fun.

umbridge

Carnage

Whoever wins is not getting my vote next round and would not have if the High Evolutionary had won either. However, Umbridge is fairly low level even though she is very cruel while Carnage goes further.

Carnage

Carnage is consistently shown to be one of the most needlessly cruel, callous, and downright dangerous threats in the Marvel Universe with every appearance. Him growing bored with killing is not exactly a glowing endorsement of heroism. As of this year too, Carnage has the power to kill pretty much anyone in the Marvel Universe and has no qualms about doing so.

Umbridge was one of my nominations too so I get why's getting voted here but Carnage is absolutely a tier above.

also I'm slightly biased since Carnage is also literally one of my favorite characters ever, but I am only taking his evil into account here

SirChris posted...

Unbridge tortured children. Literally. For fun.

umbridge

Cletus Kasady burnt down his childhood orphanage with everyone still inside.

Carnage based on arguments.

Carnage

Norman Osborne thing seems like bad spin. Carnage definitely is not a mindless killing organism and "I am having less fun murdering things than I would like and would like to spice it up" is not a sign you're not evil at all. In fact to the contrary I think that shows why he's evil in that the suffering is important to him more than just the killing itself.

Dolores is a terrible person but feels more grounded in being terrible than this field is. Like there are probably thousands of real life predators out there as bad or worse than her.

Hmm tough call. Carnage is generally worse, but as mentioned, his time trying to be a good hero and such docks him evil points (this tends to be a problem for most comic book baddies) unless it was out of his control or something. Umbridge is a huge bitch but uh...yeah if putting them near even to each other due to the previously mentioned stuff I still have to give the edge to the serial killer.

Carnage

For the record Carnage was only a hero because of a spell cast by Dr. Doom and Scarlet Witch.

Umbridge

I think it's worth noting that in Axis, when all the villains were put under a spell and became good, Carnage was the least comfortable with it and actively resisted/internally monologued that he missed being a serial killer and did not like that he was now magically feeling guilt

he also was fucking awful as a hero

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/0/AAHLcRAAE3la.png

when a magic spell that turns Red Skull, a literal Nazi, into a good guy has trouble affecting you, you know you're fucked in the head