Current Events > Florida to allow the death sentence to adults who commit rape on children today

(+) Yeah! (+)

Anteaterking posted...

Unrelated to the problems with this law, how does this incentivize murder? It's not as if people who are guilty of other capital crimes are like "oh well, I'm getting the death penalty so I might as well get my value".

if abusing a child gets the death penalty anyway, why not get rid of the witness?

SayHeyyShohei posted...

You got all of that from "child rape" ?

You do know what that definition is, right?

I mean none of what you said was incorrect. But I fail to see how any of that applies to child rape.

You're in another topic spouting off some convoluted-ass conspiracy theory about how Shakespeare was a racist psyop to alter the entire English language, but you can't put 2 and 2 together on why MAGAts spending mad energy labeling the trans community as child rapists and then passing this law is a bad thing?

Anteaterking posted...

It's not as if people who are guilty of other capital crimes are like "oh well, I'm getting the death penalty so I might as well get my value".

I mean yeah... they do.

DrizztLink posted...

You're in another topic spouting off some convoluted-ass conspiracy theory about how Shakespeare was a racist psyop to alter the entire English language, but you can't put 2 and 2 together on why MAGAts spending mad energy labeling the trans community as child rapists and then passing this law is a bad thing?

Please read the whole topic, because right now you're arguing a bunch of things that either have been addressed or were never said at all.

SayHeyyShohei posted...

Please read the whole topic, because right now you're arguing a bunch of things that either have been addressed or were never said at all.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/4/1/AAQgjdAAE5K1.jpg

I like killing child rapists

I don't trust the government to kill people, they're good at it though. Too good.

thronedfire2 posted...

if abusing a child gets the death penalty anyway, why not get rid of the witness?

I mean just a few reasons:

1. Not every rapist is capable of murder. I'm not really here to psychoanalyze the reasons, but for one reason or another, their ****ed up morals will allow one but not the other.
2. Circumstantially, you might feel like for one reason or another you are unlikely to be found guilty of rape (lack of evidence, some sort of power over the victim, etc.) whereas murdering someone might draw additional scrutiny.
3. Most criminals are not rational actors and thus aren't trying to min-max their crimes.

Tyranthraxus posted...

I mean yeah... they do.

A common argument against the death penalty is that it doesn't actually serve a deterrent effect bc nobody is thinking "gee I would commit this crime but I really don't wanna get executed"

But that same logic applies in the reverse. People aren't thinking about the consequences when they commit their crimes. A kiddie diddler isn't going to suddenly be inspired to murder bc the law changed. And most diddlers prey upon their victims multiple times, bc it's someone they know and have access to. They aren't looking to kill the kid they molest

lilORANG posted...

A common argument against the death penalty is that it doesn't actually serve a deterrent effect bc nobody is thinking "gee I would commit this crime but I really don't wanna get executed"

But that same logic applies in the reverse. People aren't thinking about the consequences when they commit their crimes. A kiddie diddler isn't going to suddenly be inspired to murder bc the law changed. And most diddlers prey upon their victims multiple times, bc it's someone they know and have access to. They aren't looking to kill the kid they molest

That's not the reverse. People can and do think "if I'm going down I'm taking you with me" all the time.

In particular amber alerts mostly only work when there's a low risk to the child's safety. Because the abductors get amber alerts too, and sometimes it causes them to panic and kill the children they've kidnapped.

They won't just stop there. They'll use children as body shields too. Punishment doesn't prevent crime but a severe punishment does prevent surrendering peacefully.

Some people are so willfully obtuse.

Florida GOP has shown hostile treatment to LGBTQ people. They've gone in with calling us groomers. They've doubled down and have insinuated that gender affirming care is child sex abuse.

We already know these people operate in bad faith. And that a potential end goal of theirs is to get rid of trans people all together. Whether it's banning gender affirming care, erasing trans people from history, and intimidation tactics such as bathroom bills

So it's not a leap of faith to imagine that since they're already demonizing a community as groomers, and that they're seeking to intimidate LGBTQ people, that there are concerns that they'll try to weaponize the law unjustly against a marginalized group of people that they're already smearing

Anteaterking posted...

Unrelated to the problems with this law, how does this incentivize murder? It's not as if people who are guilty of other capital crimes are like "oh well, I'm getting the death penalty so I might as well get my value".

Murdering the witness not carrying a greater punishment.

Were_Wyrm posted...

In an unrelated story the catholic church is pulling out of florida.

Did it creampie first?

So, just to make sure I'm understanding the topic...

Florida, the state where the Republican party has been aggressively trying to paint LGBT people as grooming sexual abusers, is:

1. Making child sexual abuse a death penalty case.

And

2. Only requiring 8 of the jurors to agree in order to make the death penalty eligible?

I don't trust the government, with a unanimous jury, to not get convictions wrong... and Florida is like, "well, they're probably guilty, so let's kill 'em."

So let's say the system does everything right and a guilty pedo gets put on death row. The amount of money that will be wasted on them appealing and reappealing death penalty cases will be ungodly holy shit

Axiom posted...

So let's say the system does everything right and a guilty pedo gets put on death row. The amount of money that will be wasted on them appealing and reappealing death penalty cases will be ungodly holy shit

That'll be fixed in post by reducing the amount of times they can appeal. Speaking of, let's save even more money by just shooting them in the head!

This is such an horrific change it's astounding.

damn some people need an update function. There is no need to discuss that one guy missing the point, he is not missing it anymore. Though it certainly didn't help arguing about whether something not rape can now be interpreted as rape because it seems the actual wording doesn't mention rape. So, it's just way worse than assumed.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Given that this is Florida, I'm gonna read between the lines here and assume this is just a way for them to execute members of the LGBT community.

......what

Ragtag28 posted...

......what

he had to make that assumption, because the topic talks about rape, but the new law only mentions abuse. So they only need to do what they literally do already with stuff like don't say gay laws.

SayHeyyShohei posted...

The jump to LGBTQ+ here is insane and bigoted as f***.

100 percent. Like where is this coming from?

SayHeyyShohei posted...

But if the bill was in fact "child rape", how does DeSatan accomplish this exactly? Last time I checked, being a member of the trans community doesn't equate to raping a fucking child.

This is why the bill is "child sexual abuses", as the framing is a lot more vague. If it were "child rape", knowing that legally executing someone for being LGBTQ+ would be literally impossible and yet still jumping to the assumption that it could happen - is probably something that should be reflected upon because there may some prejudicial biases of their own.

Could not have said this better myself. So many doom sayers in this topic and jumping to wild conclusions.

Ah yes, the wild conclusion of "a state that has an openly anti-LGBTQ governor and has passed legislation targeting the LGBTQ community will likely use this against the LGBTQ community."

Oatcakes posted...

Why would you want a law that gives the incentive to the abusers to murder their victims?

It doesn't matter if there is a death penalty or not. If an abuser wants to kill the victim they will in fact do so regardless.

BigSLM1993 posted...

They've doubled down and have insinuated that gender affirming care is child sex abuse.

I know theyve been calling it child abuse for a while but who has gone even further to label it sexual abuse? Any examples of this?

Tenlaar posted...

I know theyve been calling it child abuse for a while but who has gone even further to label it sexual abuse? Any examples of this?

They've been (wrongfully) calling it "grooming" which is sexual abuse.

And the right doesn't care. They just want excuses to oppress people.

What percent of death row inmates do you think are innocent?

Intro2Logic posted...

What percent of death row inmates do you think are innocent?

A nonzero percent, which is more than enough to say the death penalty should be abolished.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Wow. I don't even know how to unpack this. Why would bring up something that has nothing to do with this topic at all, over something that was discussed months ago. Do you have a personal bias with me or something?

ZMythos posted...

They've been (wrongfully) calling it "grooming" which is sexual abuse.

And the right doesn't care. They just want excuses to oppress people.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. In my mind grooming is not the act of sexual abuse but the precursor to it but right wingers who throw it around for LGBTQ people obviously arent operating on any logical usage of the word.

Intro2Logic posted...

What percent of death row inmates do you think are innocent?

in 2014 it was estimated to be four percent
ill argue that number to have lowered since then due to improvements in forensics
im pro death penalties for violent murderous criminals if they have no place in civil society they dont deserve three hots and cot until they die from natural causes

potdnewb posted...

in 2014 it was estimated to be four percent
ill argue that number to have lowered since then due to improvements in forensics
im pro death penalties for violent murderous criminals if they have no place in civil society they dont deserve three hots and cot until they die from natural causes

Ok, then kill them yourself. With your bare hands

Tenlaar posted...

I know theyve been calling it child abuse for a while but who has gone even further to label it sexual abuse? Any examples of this?

"I know they've been calling LGBTQ people subhuman pedophiles that need to be killed, but is there any proof they view it as sexual abuse?%

Axiom posted...

So let's say the system does everything right and a guilty pedo gets put on death row. The amount of money that will be wasted on them appealing and reappealing death penalty cases will be ungodly holy shit

Florida will probably just abolish appeals on death penalty cases or something

potdnewb posted...

in 2014 it was estimated to be four percent

So that's 96 innocent people who face execution.

Does that seem OK?

ill argue that number to have lowered since then due to improvements in forensics

A lot of cases are tried on circumstantial evidence and eye witness testimony rather than the CSI stuff, but let's assume you're right and the number is halved.

Is 50 innocent people executed OK?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's a very dumb person, you see.

DrizztLink posted...

That's a very dumb person, you see.

Grow up

What is with people personally attacking me?

thronedfire2 posted...

if abusing a child gets the death penalty anyway, why not get rid of the witness?

For starters, you'd be far more likely to get caught if you commit a murder. A victim who speaks up may not be believed, or they may not speak up in the first place. Even if they do, proof to the standard required in a criminal case is far harder to establish for rape / sexual assault than it is for murder. The "incentive" to not also commit murder is being far more likely to get away with it.

Although that might not hold true in the US, dunno what the stats are like there. Murders rarely go unsolved here.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yah see the problem i have is the assumption part. Just like you "assumed" im dishonest. Just like your "assuming" i have some agenda. This is why I call it doomsaying because you "assume" the worst when the worst haven't even happened yet. your jumping to wild conclusions with little evidence to support what you believe. Since we are going on a bunch of "assumptions" here anyway(because that's cool). Im going to "assume" that you really don't actually care about LGBT rights and are nothing more than trying to fish and see who you can publicly shame online cause it strokes your little ego. Am I hitting the nail here?

GranAures posted...

"Republicans aren't moving to commit genocide on LGBTQ people"
Is the new
"Republicans are never going to repeal RvW"

And homeslices think people will fall for it again."

But remember: noting the patterns presented from people demonizing and attempting to legislate the LGBTQ community out of existence means you're over exaggerating not the person doing so trying to downplay and ignore a clear pattern.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

1. I just don't think that most rapists do so thinking that they're going to get caught and most aren't in situations where they inherently are going to be caught. I feel like you're picturing that most of these are hostage situations where the police have the rapist surrounded mid-act.
2. I think you're just vastly underestimating how many rapes don't end in any sort of conviction because there "isn't enough evidence" for it to be rigorously pursued by a DA. Your average missing person draws a lot more immediate attention.
3. I mean that's part of my opposition to the death penalty but that's neither here nor there.

Just as another example, people commit murder in states where the death penalty is on the table for murder. Most of those people do not after committing the murder go on a killing spree of all of the witnesses under the justification that "I'm already getting the death penalty so I might as well".