Current Events > Has woke culture restricted your freedoms?

(+) Yeah! (+)

"They made fun of Indiana Jones, therefore the woke mind virus is subjugating me."

Good fucking lord.

Holy fuck. No. In absolutely no way do I find that commercial making negative generalizations about 'all men'.

yes, because I can't say that thing anymore.

it's just locker room talk, people!

/s

ellis123 posted...

"Because a movie exists that has had a single change made because of a nebulous phantom of WoKe I have been oppressed."

Wait... they changed a movie?
Grab your anime swords, fellas. It's on!

GeraldDarko posted...

I'll ask to answer more directly, which freedoms have you lost? You gave me your thoughts on woke culture, some of which I agree with, but nothing you said described and impingement on your freedoms.

I suppose to answer your question super precisely it would depend on how you would define "freedoms". If your question is "has an element of the state/law enforcement fined or imprisoned you due to wokeness?". I think you know that basically everybody's answer is going to be no. But by virtue of how self-evident that is, I didn't think that was the question you were asking.

So I can refine my answer if you give some examples of freedoms that would count towards what you were asking. So yeah, let me know what would count and I can alter my response accordingly.

For me at the time, I was answering based on a definition of freedom which includes freedom of speech as a principle, and in my idea of that principle, respectful civil good faith discussion of people from opposing viewpoints without fears of doxxing, deplatforming, or career sabotage are part of that conception of that "freedom". And bad financial incentives of social media, bad faith grifters. political actors, opportunists, diversionary tactics, and yes, the shallow tenants of wokeness and how it is practiced all combine together and do indeed hinder that freedom as I see it.

I think if almost anybody is honest with themself they would admit that they felt much more free to be honest about their opinion and have calm civil good faith disagreements with people without fear in 2010 than they do now. And if you agree to that premise then I think you are cosigning the idea that yes the freedom of free-speech has been somewhat curtailed. And IMO I think it's pretty apparent that "wokeness" played a part in that. (provided you and I share a sufficiently similar definition of the term.)

Seriously, are you throwing word salad into a Chat AI or something?

Edit: Freedom of speech in the colloquial sense you're clearly using involves the freedom to be called out for being an asshole. No. No I don't feel any type of fear of expressing my opinions any more or less than I did in 2010.

joe40001 posted...

I think if almost anybody is honest with themself they would admit that they felt much more free to be honest about their opinion and have calm civil good faith disagreements with people without fear in 2010 than they do now.

We don't even need to say you have bad opinions when you just tell on yourself like this.

Your differing opinions were dangerous Covid conspiracy bs and dangerous covid medical information.

hockeybub89 posted...

We don't even need to say you have bad opinions when you just tell on yourself like this.

"Ten years ago people didn't call me on my shit and I miss that lack of accountability."

joe40001 posted...

I suppose to answer your question super precisely it would depend on how you would define "freedoms".....

Oh, my fuck, bro...

I'll go ahead and just be willfully ignorant. You say a lot of words, but they have little meaning.

the shallow tenants of wokeness

tenets. nice guess, though.

Look what you've done. You've gone and let joenumbers do his thing

I doubt you have any actual problems in life if wokeness in media is your biggest concern.

creativerealms posted...

@joe40001 what your discribing is pandering. Yes pandering is bad. No matter which group is the target audience. Shallow representation for the sake of more money is a bad thing.

Wokeness tends to change depending on who you ask

I agree. Which is why it's a bad term to have a debate around in a vacuum. A great many people's definition of woke includes reductive sometimes insulting identity based corporate pandering, whereas some people's definition is purely about showing compassion to underprivileged people.

No doubt many a debate has been had where 2 people each with 1 of the 2 listed definitions argued for hours about the merits of "wokeness".

I do think it's better if people try to be specific about what they are referring to, I aim to be that way myself.

It gets people modded for content that doesn't break listed rules.

Like supporting free distribution of gaming mods. If you don't like one don't download it.

Imagine not having joe numbers blocked.

Nope. If anything, it gave me more opportunities to troll right wingers.

ClayGuida posted...

I'm not even sure what woke culture is. Is that being polite? Having common courtesy?

The god damn horror!

That is not how anybody who takes issue with it would define it, no.

hockeybub89 posted...

Even when you have no evidence of anything, you make giant posts about how you feel studies would probably agree with you. No one believes that you challenge yourself or are open to change.

I am sharing my perspective. You are welcome to share your perspective. However I do not appreciate being called "the worst". It is telling that IRL I am never met with the kind of animosity that a few people show here, it goes against many of your assertions about my character. I have developed a good relationship with my project lead at work, and I expressed that I fear that people secretly hated me there, and she insisted quite adamantly that nobody at work hated me, that I am very kind and compassionate, and that I needed to stop being so hard on myself.

Nearly everybody I know IRL says, quite emphatically I am far too hard on myself.

It is only when I go to a forum with a limited ideology window and express myself honestly in a way that seems to deviate from their consensus that am I treated like a contemptable pariah and my character is attacked. I think it stands to reason that my honest non-conformity rather than my character which is to blame for that response.

I try to sincerely share my perspective and opinion. I do so respectfully. You are and always were welcome to challenge that perspective. But IMO resorting to mockery and character attacks when you have no substantive challenges to my argument/perspective is at best childish and at worst needlessly cruel. I remember you HB, you are capable of civility and good faith discussions, I hope you return to that.

FolkenRawr posted...

Holy fuck. No. In absolutely no way do I find that commercial making negative generalizations about 'all men'.

Interesting. So you think a man viewing that ad would be unreasonable to infer that the ad was in anyway talking about them or their character?

Before woke I used to be free to watch dull Christian movies starring washed up actors like Kirk Cameron, Dean Cain, and Kevin Sorbo...

Now I still can do everything I used to exactly like before, but I can do it feeling more smug and self righteous about it, like I'm sticking it to the woke.

joe40001 posted...

Interesting. So you think a man viewing that ad would be unreasonable to infer that the ad was in anyway talking about them or their character?

I'm a guy with clinical depression/dysthymia, massive self worth issues and anxiety. Yes, I think it's unreasonable to look at that ad and to feel 'attacked' in literally any way, shape, or form. And not just unreasonable, but in serious need of actual self reflection.

FolkenRawr posted...

Seriously, are you throwing word salad into a Chat AI or something?

Edit: Freedom of speech in the colloquial sense you're clearly using involves the freedom to be called out for being an asshole. No. No I don't feel any type of fear of expressing my opinions any more or less than I did in 2010.

I am trying to express myself comprehensively and precisely. Maybe it's because I'm on the spectrum, but writing like that is how I like to talk. I feel like if you read it as written is quite intelligible and detailed, but maybe because it doesn't lend itself to skimming some people don't like it. IDK

Edit: Freedom of speech in the colloquial sense you're clearly using involves the freedom to be called out for being an asshole.

It does, but it would not include doxxing, personal IRL harassment, or career sabotage. Also it is often important to draw a distinction between somebody "being an asshole" and somebody holding an opinion that we disagree with.

"If somebody votes for a different political candidate than I would, this does not make them a horrible asshole worthy of hatred and vitriol." IMO in 2010 that statement was uncontroversial. And IMO now is something I feel like many from many places would disagree with.

No. No I don't feel any type of fear of expressing my opinions any more or less than I did in 2010.

While I am quite surprised by this, I appreciate that you answered honestly. Thank you.

FolkenRawr posted...

I'm a guy with clinical depression/dysthymia, massive self worth issues and anxiety. Yes, I think it's unreasonable to look at that ad and to feel 'attacked' in literally any way, shape, or form. And not just unreasonable, but in serious need of actual self reflection.

Really?

Personally I see the long shot of men on grills speaking in unison as pretty explicit framing meant to state "yes this commercial is meant to generalize about men as monolith."

To me the commercial is saying "Men have historically been involved in some shitty things, and so men as a demographic need to take a long hard look in the mirror about the part they've played in this, and reflect on how they're not good enough and need to do better to be less toxic."

And so as a man I don't see how one would not feel targeted by that.

But I am honestly very interested in your perspective here, because it seems fundamentally different to mine. To you, what is the message/argument of the commercial? And why do you feel like it is addressed to you?

No. If anything, living in a world where "anti-woke" culture is allowed to exist and has millions of bigoted, hateful, dogmatic, and idiotic adherents has restricted my freedoms.

"If somebody votes for a different political candidate than I would, this does not make them a horrible asshole worthy of hatred and vitriol." IMO in 2010 that statement was uncontroversial. And IMO now is something I feel like many from many places would disagree with.

I agree with this, but it's a function of the candidates themselves. They are the ones who court controversy, pursue exclusionary and conspiratorial politics, and remain unpunished by their constituency for doing so. It seems inevitable that voters who elect carnival barkers might be seen as bad people to some extent or another.

In 2010, this wasn't really quite the same in America; candidates were not as aggressive, lines tended to exist, and people agreed that certain statements could, would, and should end your political career. Now, convicted and/or admitted sexual assault is insufficient to deter a voting base.

Yes. Sony put the kibosh on anime titties and it really is a tragedy. At least Nintendo is still letting them in

Zero_Destroyer posted...

I agree with this, but it's a function of the candidates themselves. They are the ones who court controversy, pursue exclusionary and conspiratorial politics, and remain unpunished by their constituency for doing so. It seems inevitable that voters who elect carnival barkers might be seen as bad people to some extent or another.

In 2010, this wasn't really quite the same in America; candidates were not as aggressive, lines tended to exist, and people agreed that certain statements could, would, and should end your political career. Now, convicted and/or admitted sexual assault is insufficient to deter a voting base.

I do acknowledge shifting standards have affected this. Though personally I think it's the "engagement (aka conflict)" motives of media and social media that have really made modern times feel so different and antagonistic. Those motives and social media political team sports tribalism of woke vs anti-woke and all the surrounding noise is what IMO deranged the ability for civil good faith discussion. And downstream of that was the few politicians that deviate from previous minimum requirements for viability.

In other words I don't think it's the bad politicians being elected that caused the inability to have civil good faith conversations.

But rather I think it's the inability to have civil good faith conversations that caused the election of bad politicians.

That said, it would be foolish to ignore the feedback loop elements of that problem.

I think the woke scolds due deserve criticism for the way they go about things, harsh criticism even but not really, no.

DKBananaSlamma posted...

Yes. Sony put the kibosh on anime titties and it really is a tragedy. At least Nintendo is still letting them in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke1YKF3tNCE

joe40001 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke1YKF3tNCE

Hellz yeah

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/6/AAKYciAAE9cq.jpg

People have been modded here for praising Trump or favorably comparing him to Democrats.

Even though I disagree with the stance, it shouldn't be moddable.

Yes, but only on CE.

IRL nobody actually cares what I say or do, but CE acts like saying rude words or being to the right of center even a little bit is a war crime.

And even if you aren't right-wing, just thinking they shouldn't be censored also gets you yelled at.

Inohira posted...

People have been modded here for praising Trump or favorably comparing him to Democrats.

Even though I disagree with the stance, it shouldn't be moddable.

I don't know how it works on CE, but on 261, it was never that cut and dry.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/6/3/AAZUkRAAEtNj.jpg

nocturnal_traveler posted...

I don't know how it works on CE, but on 261, it was never that cut and dry.

Yeah, "praising Trump" would usually be justifying Jan 6th, his COVID misinformation he intentionally spread, or one of his blatantly bigoted stances.

Just yesterday I went to Walmart and asked where the slave aisle was, and do you know what they told me? Apparently its illegal to own black people because of some 13th amendment to the constitution or something. How dare they restrict my freedom to restrict someones freedom!

I cant believe weve gotten to the point where I have to add a /s

variasuite posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/6/3/AAZUkRAAEtNj.jpg

I still wanna know why he hates that engine so

Kradek posted...

Yeah, "praising Trump" would usually be justifying Jan 6th, his COVID misinformation he intentionally spread, or one of his blatantly bigoted stances.

To be clear I'm not referring to forms of support that would be moddable under other clauses. Claiming the election was stolen and should be overturned, spreading COVID misinformation, generalizing races/nationalities, or generally promoting his baseless conspiracy theories and false claims could be modded under trolling/abusive behavior.

But I'm talking purely stuff on the level of "Trump's great, Biden sucks, think I might vote Republican and here's why!" still being modded because apparently the mods don't want you allowed to share certain political preferences.

Inohira posted...

People have been modded here for praising Trump or favorably comparing him to Democrats.

Even though I disagree with the stance, it shouldn't be moddable.

When, and in what context? Please explain.

Also, how would you know why they got modded? Was it you, who got modded?

Smackems posted...

I still wanna know why he hates that engine so

It's a Mary Sue.

StealThisSheen posted...

When, and in what context? Please explain.

Also, how would you know why they got modded? Was it you, who got modded?

No, as I do not support Trump. But people have posted their mods elsewhere.

I can't go into further detail than I have because doing so is moddable. You can't repost moderations. I've been repeat modded for arguing against my own moderations in the past, so it's just not something that can be properly discussed here.

Smackems posted...

I still wanna know why he hates that engine so

It probably broke down on him, reigniting his abandonment issues. His mom or dad probably went out for smokes or milk, and never returned.

Inohira posted...

No, as I do not support Trump. But people have posted their mods elsewhere.

Where is "elsewhere?" Can you explain, please? And who has posted their moderations? I'd love to know, thanks!

nocturnal_traveler posted...

It probably broke down on him, reigniting his abandonment issues. His mom or dad probably went out for smokes or milk, and never returned.

Oh damn I'd be woked at it too then

No, not really. Of course, some media is more eye-rolling, and there have been some that did seem to ruin themselves for sake of checking boxes. Ultimately, there's nothing I care that deeply enough about to say they've been "ruined".

Smackems posted...

I still wanna know why he hates that engine so

It's a powerful female.

variasuite posted...

It's a powerful female.

How does one tell the sex of their engine