Current Events > Just read a book on WW2 and damn they didnt teach us shit

(+) Yeah! (+)

We learned about basic tactics, main events, and the Holocaust.

But we really didn't talk about the depth some of the atrocities. Like hundreds of thousands of not millions of girls raped. Mass famine and disease and deaths related to that. Biological and chemical warfare. Grotesque medical experiments with prisoners. Large scale cannibalism....often raping, killing, and eating victims because of food shortages. Germany, Japan, and Russia killing their own men who deserted. If you got captured you were considered a traitor.

Like it goes on and on and on...we didn't even touch the surface of some of these things.

Yeah they did maybe your school sucked.

Also which book?

War never changes.

Unfortunately a lot of what you're describing is by no means unique to WWII. You got taught the distinguishing aspects of WWII

Doe posted...

unfortunately a lot of what you're describing is by no means unique to WWII. You got taught the distinguishing aspects of WWII

this.

I never learned about WW2 or even Vietnam in school. My history classes from grade school through high school always stopped once we hit the 20th century. It was really bizarre. The only exception was when we covered the Iraq war freshman year.

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

We learned about various atrocities in places like China, Indochina and the USSR in History class (various time periods though some overlapped with WW2), but it was an optional subject. I remember doing one project on the Khmer Rouge, and another on Stalinism for example.

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

Id be interested to know this too.

Ive just been teaching a bit about it, but from the Vietnamese point of view. Its fascinating for me as I didnt know much about it before.

World War II is largely unique for the scale of warfare and atrocities. The types of things that occurred still happen. Cambodian genocide is a great example of this. 25% of the population killed, about 2 million people. This sounds staggering, but it's largely an isolated event.

In World War II Poland lost about 20% of it's population, 6 million people. China lost over 15 million people. The Soviets lost over 20 million. This makes it hard to contextualize all the wars and atrocities that have happened since then. Nothing has remotely approached that scale.

The Ukraine war has been raging for over a year and a half and total deaths are estimated at around 300,000 people. It's hard to really grasp the scope of what occurred.

With how brutal humans are to each other in war times it really makes me wonder how fucked up the world was before nukes were developed, just think about ourselves now, like imagine the technology we have but nukes weren't a thing, just how many people would be dying every day due to drones and missiles and rockets without worrying about the threat of such a world ending weapon? It's a terrifying thought

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

Of course, the Tories are always talking about bringing it back.

With the horrible shit part replaced by 'bringing civilization to the world' bollocks.

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Yeah they did maybe your school sucked

I went to a top 10 public HS in California in a liberal city

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Also which book?

The second world war by Antony Beaver

When I was young, I learned stuff from my grandparents, their siblings, and their cousins about their time as guerrilla fighters against the Japanese during WW2. One of my grandparents was involved in the execution of a traitor, the father of Ferdinand Marcos.

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

Do we? I was taught a fair amount of bad things, but only so much can dedicate to it unless that's all you do at school.

Much of the 'big' evil does get glossed over though from what I remember.

I fudged my US history classes in high school (due to switching schools midway through), so I never took US history after reconstruction. I heard more about WWII on the history channel (pre-aliens) than I did grade school through junior high, where only a couple major events were covered.

of course not, we can't be looking at our leaders/historical figures in a different manner

Know a bit of most of it. But where the heck you find cannibalism in WW2 (not that it surprises me, desperate time and such, but now Im morbidly curious)

clyde_frog posted...

I never learned about WW2 or even Vietnam in school. My history classes from grade school through high school always stopped once we hit the 20th century. It was really bizarre. The only exception was when we covered the Iraq war freshman year.

A lot of schools will gloss over WW1 but you never learned about the Holocaust in school?

texanfan27 posted...

Know a bit of most of it. But where the heck you find cannibalism in WW2 (not that it surprises me, desperate time and such, but now Im morbidly curious)

It happened in the siege of Leningrad and the Japanese did it as well.

texanfan27 posted...

Know a bit of most of it. But where the heck you find cannibalism in WW2 (not that it surprises me, desperate time and such, but now Im morbidly curious)

The Japanese did it.
Some times because they starved, some times just because.
Like the Chichijima incident, where a future president survived by luck.

You want to talk about not learning stuff in school, you should listen to the Rachel Maddow podcast, Ultra or read the books "Nazis of Copley Square" by Charles R. Gallagher, "Hitler's American Friends" by Bradley W. Hart, or "Hitler in Los Angeles" by Steven J. Ross all about the rise of fascism in the US in the 40's (Maddow herself just put out a book called "Prequel" recently but I haven't read it yet). The events will sound eerily similar to what's been occurring lately.

Foppe posted...

The Japanese did it.
Some times because they starved, some times just because.
Like the Chichijima incident, where a future president survived by luck.

I know too little about that. My school underemphasized the war in Asia and overemphasized Europe.

One of the most fucked up WW2 stories Ive heard was Nazi soldiers using little kids for blood transfusion since they were more likely to be clean and then putting their dead bodies on a pile.

Cant even...

DanHaren4Ringz posted...

We learned about basic tactics, main events, and the Holocaust.

But we really didn't talk about the depth some of the atrocities. Like hundreds of thousands of not millions of girls raped. Mass famine and disease and deaths related to that. Biological and chemical warfare. Grotesque medical experiments with prisoners. Large scale cannibalism....often raping, killing, and eating victims because of food shortages. Germany, Japan, and Russia killing their own men who deserted. If you got captured you were considered a traitor.

Like it goes on and on and on...we didn't even touch the surface of some of these things.

Just you wait until you read the parts about atrocities committed by the allies. Especially about the looting, murders and rape committed by US soldiers in Europe.

History is indeed written by the victorious and the retelling brushes away many many bad things.

DanHaren4Ringz posted...

I went to a top 10 public HS in California in a liberal city

Is that where you "learned" that California's economic success is thanks to the weather?

JuanCarlos1 posted...

One of the most fucked up WW2 stories Ive heard was Nazi soldiers using little kids for blood transfusion since they were more likely to be clean and then putting their dead bodies on a pile.

Cant even...

You should read about what Japan did to the Chinese people. It's no wonder China is still very racist towards anything from Japan to this day.

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

In my experience, yes. In middle school, high school and college.

War sucks. You need to just assume a lot of this is normal for war. That's why you avoid war at all costs

War, huh, good god
What is it good for?

Doe posted...

Unfortunately a lot of what you're describing is by no means unique to WWII. You got taught the distinguishing aspects of WWII

This. We were taught about WWII in sufficient detail. What TC is describing is just war in general.

that is what the History Channel was for

Listen to The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer on Audible. https://www.audible.com/pd/B003VWJAPA?source_code=ASSOR150021921000V

Great book

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

I got a good overview of Vietnam when I was in school.

Glossed over Korea a bitter too much imo though.

lilORANG posted...

that is what the History Channel was for

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/98b80085.jpg

ironman2009 posted...

Listen to The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer on Audible. https://www.audible.com/pd/B003VWJAPA?source_code=ASSOR150021921000V

Great book

Next I'm gonna read Sapiens. After that this book is next.

DanHaren4Ringz posted...

Next I'm gonna read Sapiens. After that this book is next.

It's dry but packed with information I never heard anywhere else. One of the best books ever.

While not in that much graphic detail, we did learn about many of the atrocities during WWII. We even learned how the US screwed over its Japanese citizens, and how Black soldiers were still treated like shit.

That is because your school was pro-war and wanted to teach you America won and was great I assume.

They can't possibly teach everything at school, way too much to cover.

You learn all of that on your own.

itcheyness posted...

I got a good overview of Vietnam when I was in school.

Glossed over Korea a bitter too much imo though.

It was the opposite for me.

Beevor states they intentionally covered up the Japanese cannibalism part because it would be traumatic to the families of the victims.

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

Not really, no. In my school, we never really went past the basics of WWII.

Would recommend Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder if folks are interested in the shit that happened in Poland and Ukraine during WW2.

I personally love the World War 2 channel on YouTube. They go in a week by week detail about the war, and also have a depressing series called War Against Hummanity that just goes into the war crimes performed by any side in the war

https://youtube.com/@WorldWarTwo

spikethedevil posted...

Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

every country in the world has done some horrible shit through history.
they're all in on it too.

ElGatoBravo posted...

You should read about what Japan did to the Chinese people. It's no wonder China is still very racist towards anything from Japan to this day.

This, the Nanjing massacre is still one of the most horrific and brutal events Ive ever read about, upsets me just thinking about it

spikethedevil posted...

Does any US school teach much on Vietnam? I mean the US lost while being the bad guys and committing war crimes. Its like schools over here in the UK very much ignore the Empire and the horrible shit we did.

I think that is only taught in college history classes